TMNT politics

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

"The phenomenon I fell in love with is a narrative about 4 individuals living in New York City, who have to hide from society and living in isolation because they are different and they are ninjas which makes them cool. These factors made TMNT an original and fascinating story."

Wow, that pretty much sums it up for me too! Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind a little change of pace every once and a while. But at the end of the day, this should be what defines the Turtles.

Take exhibits A & B...

Batman has been around since the 30s and is more popular and fresh today than ever. Is this because he has "gone in a different direction" than being a morally-driven vigilantee agent of justice in Gotham City? Has he ever felt the need to expose his identity to the world so that he can walk around in the daytime in peace?

Not a chance.

What about Superman, the original comicbook superhero? Does his relevance endure because he decided his classic blue & red color scheme was too passe? Is his boy-scout morality too naive to appeal to new generations?

No, the less Superman changes the better.

As it is with the most enduring superhero types, so should it be with the Turtles.

The thing is though, is that from the beginning Batman and Superman have fit a formula. That formula has been expanded upon so that the storytelling is a little deeper and more detailed, but the basic formula is still that Batman and Superman fight evil doers and try to maintain justice, typically by battling supervillains.

The Turtles cartoon shared that formula with the Turtles fighting Shredder every episode, although it was done with the kind of goofiness of old comic book plots. The comic on the other hand didn't necessarily always have the general superhero formula. It did from time to time in the Turtles' major storylines, but a lot of the old stories were wacky adventures too. It makes the Turtles comic kind of refreshing, that sometimes it could be a superhero story and at other times it would be all sorts of different adventures.

I will say though, that I don't like the sound of this new "cyber world" story. Maybe it works for other cartoon series, but The Turtles shouldn't be made to fit that mold of the new Megaman cartoon or whatever it is they are trying to rip off. If it is done as a story arc for a couple of episodes, that's fine, but it shouldn't become the new formula for the show. I don't get why they feel the need to change the turtles that way. Isn't that Naruto show that's really popular these days all about ninjas? Why not emphasize the ninja aspects of the Ninja Turtles then?

[Raphael_]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

The thing is though, is that from the beginning Batman and Superman have fit a formula. That formula has been expanded upon so that the storytelling is a little deeper and more detailed, but the basic formula is still that Batman and Superman fight evil doers and try to maintain justice, typically by battling supervillains.

The Turtles cartoon shared that formula with the Turtles fighting Shredder every episode, although it was done with the kind of goofiness of old comic book plots. The comic on the other hand didn't necessarily always have the general superhero formula. It did from time to time in the Turtles' major storylines, but a lot of the old stories were wacky adventures too. It makes the Turtles comic kind of refreshing, that sometimes it could be a superhero story and at other times it would be all sorts of different adventures.

I will say though, that I don't like the sound of this new "cyber world" story. Maybe it works for other cartoon series, but The Turtles shouldn't be made to fit that mold of the new Megaman cartoon or whatever it is they are trying to rip off. If it is done as a story arc for a couple of episodes, that's fine, but it shouldn't become the new formula for the show. I don't get why they feel the need to change the turtles that way. Isn't that Naruto show that's really popular these days all about ninjas? Why not emphasize the ninja aspects of the Ninja Turtles then?

Mark my words, if they try to make this whole series happen in "cyberspace" (I hate that phrase, it's so marketese), it will tank, most assuredly, and that will be it for this round of TMNT.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Nice points and all winters, but TMNT is more of a "gimmicky" property than Batman.

Yeah, that is the true backstory behind the glory isn't it? I guess that's another reason I like it!

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by syd

Oh heck...You know what, I like serious people,and I like people fight for what they believe is right,but I don't like people quit in the halfway for whatever reason before there hasn't been any result yet,they know what,and I hate people say "it's final","it's over" that screw me up,let me tell you son,you know there's NO "final" in the world,it's always a new beginning.

TMNT is too big a franchise just to up and leave. Other than the fact the live action series was too high budget, they haven't had a massive flop outside of that and TMNT 3. Hell, I still was a TMNT fan during the Dark period of nothingness 1998-2002.

Consider, if you will, the He-man fans. While big in the 80's, his comeback wasn't a success. And why Mattel (I think in conjunction with another country) made a few more collectors toys after they stopped selling the line in mainstream stores due to low sales. After that, it's been a steady diet of only nostalgic DVD's. I saw this, and worse could have happened to us. How many of the 4Kids DVD's do we get a year? 3-4? Add to that we usually get 2 or 3 Lion's Gate DVD's a year... both series alone are doing quite well.

Mark my words, if they try to make this whole series happen in "cyberspace" (I hate that phrase, it's so marketese), it will tank, most assuredly, and that will be it for this round of TMNT.

I doubt it will. I think the TMNT have one, two tops more years on TV. I mean, now that greedy CBS has pressured Warners to drop Kid's WB like a brick, selling it to 4Kids (a stupid move I don't get), they need at least one powerhouse show to hold up the line up. And TMNT is the only real success they have on them.

Yes, TMNT Cyberworld is a pretty dumb idea. But no dumber than FF. And the franchise survied that. And it's only 13 episodes. So clearly they'll bring them in a better direction next year.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Raphael_

Mark my words, if they try to make this whole series happen in "cyberspace" (I hate that phrase, it's so marketese), it will tank, most assuredly, and that will be it for this round of TMNT.

Mark my words that little kids aren't as bitter and picky as fans. They might actually like the concept of Cyber Space as they did FF and the series might do well.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

TMNT is too big a franchise just to up and leave. Other than the fact the live action series was too high budget, they haven't had a massive flop outside of that and TMNT 3. Hell, I still was a TMNT fan during the Dark period of nothingness 1998-2002.

Consider, if you will, the He-man fans. While big in the 80's, his comeback wasn't a success. And why Mattel (I think in conjunction with another country) made a few more collectors toys after they stopped selling the line in mainstream stores due to low sales. After that, it's been a steady diet of only nostalgic DVD's. I saw this, and worse could have happened to us. How many of the 4Kids DVD's do we get a year? 3-4? Add to that we usually get 2 or 3 Lion's Gate DVD's a year... both series alone are doing quite well.

Yeah, here's hoping that there will always be at least a little bit of something for the hardcore fans. I recall now seeing He-Man stuff at conventions, and wondering if that new show was still on, because I didn't remember hearing anything about it in a while.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

Yeah, here's hoping that there will always be at least a little bit of something for the hardcore fans. I recall now seeing He-Man stuff at conventions, and wondering if that new show was still on, because I didn't remember hearing anything about it in a while.

I don;t know much about it, but I do know it's long gone. i used that as an example. The Thundercats people have nothing BUT a couple T-shirts and the DVD's. And maybe the movie. We're lucky. I'll say it again.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

I don;t know much about it, but I do know it's long gone. i used that as an example. The Thundercats people have nothing BUT a couple T-shirts and the DVD's. And maybe the movie. We're lucky. I'll say it again.

Transformers seems to have had a pretty big comeback with the movie and all.

Maybe they should have invested in a live action movie. Maybe it would have been bigger. But there's no guaruntee of that though, which is probably why they went with animation.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

I doubt it will. I think the TMNT have one, two tops more years on TV. I mean, now that greedy CBS has pressured Warners to drop Kid's WB like a brick, selling it to 4Kids (a stupid move I don't get), they need at least one powerhouse show to hold up the line up. And TMNT is the only real success they have on them

I doubt it, I can see the TMNT cartoon getting at least 4 more years thanks to 4kids buying out the CW Saturday mornings for 5 years.

If 4kids cancels TMNT, they're doomed, and they have nothing else to anchor the block for the 5 years they bought the CW Saturday mornings for.

If anything, I see the cartoon getting at least 4 more seasons, and I would be *shocked* to see it get cancelled before a possible movie sequal in 2010 or so.

[Drtooth]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

Transformers seems to have had a pretty big comeback with the movie and all.

Yeah, but then again, Transformers never really left. They were just out of the public eye for a couple years, now they're just bigger than they were in the 90's. How long was it since Fox Kids stopped and the time of the next transformers cartoon from Japan? Less than 4 years? I forget. But the fact of the matter is, there wasn't a huge gap between Beast Machines and the anime "Robots in Disguise." Plus, I'm guessing they were still popular in Japan.

I doubt it, I can see the TMNT cartoon getting at least 4 more years thanks to 4kids buying out the CW Saturday mornings for 5 years.

If 4kids cancels TMNT, they're doomed, and they have nothing else to anchor the block for the 5 years they bought the CW Saturday mornings for.

If anything, I see the cartoon getting at least 4 more seasons, and I would be *shocked* to see it get cancelled before a possible movie sequal in 2010 or so.

Hmmm, I was going with a lower estimate. But somewhere between 3-4 seasons seems likely, as that is the only thing 4k has, since they've singlehandedly alienated every Japanese anime studio.

[Roseangelo]

I'd expect TMNT to stick around on TV for at least as long as it takes for them to make another movie. And at this rate, who knows when that'll happen.

[Scandia]

Come on, bring more seasons.

So far, 2k3 has had no continuity screw-ups. Unless you count their showing FF before Ninja Tribunal.

And I cannot find any major contradictions, inconsistencies, or plot holes either.

OK, so neither did Archie. But 2k3 won in my book due to its Leonardo focus.