25th Anniversary News!

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

God don't remind me. I seriously just gave up on Spider-man all together. But at least their not going back and re-inking the old comics, making them look worse. Though in Spider-man's case it couldn't hurt since the art in them isn't that great to begin with.

With turtles I just think the artwork and inking is breathtaking, which is why I'm so angry. But you knew that already.

My copies of the old comics are the colorized ones. If the black and white ones were easier to get I would have preferred those, but I just wanted copies I could put on the shelf with the rest of my collection. I think re-inking them is a bad idea, because the look of the old comics is part of their appeal. They looked quite a bit different from everything else out there.

I guess some of the art in the old Marvel comics is a little more basic than what some artists in the last twenty years have been able to do, but once again, it's kind of a classic look that shouldn't be tampered with.

[Ninjinister]

What the Hell did they do to Spider-Man?

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by The S

What the Hell did they do to Spider-Man?

In the last issue:

Spoiler:

-Spider-Man and MJ's marriage now never happened
-Harry Osborn is alive again
-So basically, the last 30 years either didn't happen, or they supposedly happened a lot differently now. Who knows what this means for things like New Avengers and all the stuff Spider-Man crossed over with.

[The Shelf]

Yes, but...

Spoiler:

According to Joe Quesada, all the stories still happened exactly the way we remember them. The only difference, according to him, is that Peter and MJ weren't married during those stories, though they were still together.

Of course, that doesn't make a lick of sense because, like you said, Harry's magically back from the dead and Peter apparently lost all the powers he gained in recent years such as organic web-shooters, stingers, and night vision.

Not to mention, it's incredibly silly that the entire world still remembers that Spider-man unmasked, but no one can remember his name or what he looks like. So what happened to all the video footage and photos? Apparently they all just magically disappeared. It's all incredibly stupid. Not to mention, Peter acted so incredibly weak, selfish, and stupid during the whole ordeal.

In my eyes, Marvel has pretty much destroyed Spider-man's character through this whole thing. Laird's changes to TMNT are nothing in comparison. So yeah, even though both were unnecessary, I'll take Laird's fixes to TMNT over Marvel's fixes to Spider-man any day, thank you very much.

[CyberCubed]

Wow, good thing I'm not a major Spiderman comic fan or I'd be pissed. DC also pisses me off with all these "infinite crisis" they keep doing and wiping out older continuity.

Compared to other comics, the TMNT universe definitely isn't as messed up. The only thing that has been phased out of continuity is the Image series, which is now seen in its own universe.

Its pretty interesting that Peter never "wiped the slate clean" and tried to start all over again. I'm pretty glad that V. 4 and Tales V. 2 continued from the established Mirage universe.

[The Shelf]

Yes, I avoid DC comics altogether because of their retcons, but I had hoped Marvel could stay above that, at least with Spider-man. Especially since they tried and failed once before to reboot Spider-man.

In any case, now that Vol. 4 will be getting some *hopefully* good closure and with Tales V.2 in the iffy zone beyond '08, I will officially join the ranks of people hoping for some sort of "Ultimate" TMNT that starts over from scratch with an up-to-date look and feel. There's just so much potential there. But it needs a second generation creative team to give us a new and fresh take on the turtles. I'm one of the few who actually likes what Laird has done with Vol. 4, and I can't wait to see what he's going to with the remainder of the series, but I don't think he should have creative control over an "Ultimate" title if something like that were to ever be made. Mostly I say this because we need someone who is unbiased by past stories. We need someone who can tell new stories and old ones with new twists.

Ach, anyway, I'm just rambling now. I really need to email Laird for the letters page....

[CyberCubed]

I know this has been said before, but isn't that what the current cartoon is? I've always seen it as an "ultimate" TMNT that adapts the Mirage comics while at the same time adding new stuff to make them different.

The 2k3 series is a perfect example of a fresh start with mixing Mirage stuff with new stuff, is there any room for a comic series to do mostly the same thing?

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The 2k3 series is a perfect example of a fresh start with mixing Mirage stuff with new stuff, is there any room for a comic series to do mostly the same thing?

I guess the Dreamwave comic could have been that if it hadn't been canceled.

[Roseangelo]

I think the bottom line is that there needs to be a TMNT comic series that's not Vol. 4, whether you like Vol. 4 or not. I very much agree and I know there are people who would like to create and deliver such a title, but there is also extreme doubt that the idea would ever get approved.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Modified by a drunken monkey with dyslexia and a crayon

In BND's case, the monkey's swallowed the crayon and using the turd made out of it to draw as it dangles from it's ass.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I know this has been said before, but isn't that what the current cartoon is? I've always seen it as an "ultimate" TMNT that adapts the Mirage comics while at the same time adding new stuff to make them different.

The 2k3 series is a perfect example of a fresh start with mixing Mirage stuff with new stuff, is there any room for a comic series to do mostly the same thing?

I was thinking something more drastic than what the 2k3 toon did. Most of the 2k3 adaptations of the comic were nearly identical to the comic plus extra stories in between. I'm thinking more along the lines of a re-imagining. That's why it's critical that Laird not be the one writing it because he'd end up retelling the same stories that we're all very familiar with. We need something with a totally different spin on it -- something as different from the original comics as the old toon was, only more serious. But at the same time, it needs to pull in elements of the original comics to keep it familiar.

Honestly, I think the Dreamwave comics might have fit this description fairly well if it had been given enough time to develop, but obviously that didn't work out.

[TristanHuwJones]

In all honesty, I don't think there's too much room for reimagining the whole TMNT history. Once you've got past the origin, you're just telling new stories with the same old turtles. Why not just keep telling new stories instead of wiping the whole thing out and starting again? City at War, Return to New York, they're all classic stories that, once reprinted, will be thrown back in the public eye for all to see. Everyone knows the Turtles origins, it's been the same in every iteration, so why start again when it's there for people already? You could do pretty much the same thing as what you're proposing (telling new stories from different P.o.v's, putting new spins on old stories, etc.) through tales or through a new mini-series. You could slot those Dreamwave stories into the Mirage Continuity if you wanted to, as the ones that adapted the cartoon eps are just expansions of Vol.1 material, and the non-episode based eps could fit into any Turtle continuity anywhere (it's just not the 'official' continuity).

[The Shelf]

You're probably right, Tristan. Heck, if I had my way Vol. 4 would last 100 issues or more, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But since it will end soon I was just wondering what might be next. Tales is nice and all, and I hope it lasts for a very long time, but I like the continuing stories of Vol. 4, and I would like to see something either take its place or pick up where it leaves off.

[TristanHuwJones]

I'm with you on that. My favourite Tales issues have all been ones that either link to older stories or ones that form an arc themselves. While Tales is really good as a "done-in-one" book, I'd love to see more ongoing mini's or maxi's.

[Chris]

I agree with you Shelf, I like Vol. 4 and wish it would continue properly rather than just wrap things up. But at the end of the day it wasn't making any money so we're lucky Peter Laird is at least giving it a conclusion.

I'm hoping Tales Vol. 2 will continue indefinatly as well, but from the way things have been I'm guessing it won't make it through 2009 either. Really hope I'm wrong, and Murphy's blog does give some hope, but I'm not holding my breath. At least running through 08 and 09 means we could get minis for both Mike and Don!

I'd rather keep Vol. 4 and Tales Vol. 2, but if an "Ultimate" TMNT was released I'd sure support it and it would probably have a better chance of getting sales as it could feature more elements that the majority of non-fans/TV only fans would recognise such as Shredder and the Foot. If after 25 years the best way for TMNT to continue and reach new audiences is a relaunch then I'm all for it, as Splinter himself said "life is good and life goes on".

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by TristanHuwJones

I'm with you on that. My favourite Tales issues have all been ones that either link to older stories or ones that form an arc themselves. While Tales is really good as a "done-in-one" book, I'd love to see more ongoing mini's or maxi's.

I think that "done in one" style is why I've gotten into Tales lately. I'm kind of tired of what seems to be the new norm in comics of stretching out a story to fit the TPBs. I'd say the Ultimate line is the most guilty of this, as many stories in Ultimate Spider-Man drag on kind of needlessly. If the stories are good enough and people like the character enough, I don't think they are going to mind 2,3, or 4 different stories all in the same trade.

[Time Mistress]

Well said, Tristan. Part of the appeal of TMNT comic being creator owned is that much like creator owned manga that's so popular today. Pete has been able to tell a story about his characters allowing them to grow and age and mature. No de-aging, no cheezy deaths and resurrections, no horrid OMD style reboots, no convoluted continuity. Just a great story from beginning to (soon to be) end. Yet, TMNT still has enough room for many Tales style, um, tales to still be told for many years to come.

That said, I always think one of the big appeals of TMNT has been it's flexibility to take the basic storyline and then have it go in it's own direction/universe be it the old toon, new toon, movies, or Archie, or something else.

The 25th anniversary looks like a very promising year. I just wish all of the "continuity" issues of Vol.1 could be collected in TPB, not just the first 11 or so. Same with all of Archie and not just "selected highlights." But I'm still very excited for most of this.