If the new movie was the OT in live action?

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Yes. Yes, it does.

How It would still have the same characters like Shredder, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, heck even Robotic Foot Soldiers. That should keep OT fans happy.

Bebop and Rocksteady could be more of of a threat and it would still keep me pleased. That just like saying that the Turtles need to constantly keep throwing surrounding objects in the movie just because it's based off of the OT TMNT. Them being more of a threat just adds better action.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

If I remember, they weren't going to be aliens. They were to be the actual, OS Bebop and Rocksteady, visiting the Mirage "dimension" from presumably the OS "Dimension" in the TMNT multiverse. Wasn't a bad idea at all, really... and why not?

I was using the term "aliens" very loosely as they were from another dimension, not the OS dimension, but one that was things were much larger than the Mirage universe. The two were gigantic and wreaked havoc pretty much due to their sheer size.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Venom

I was using the term "aliens" very loosely as they were from another dimension,

True... I suppose they would technically be "aliens" if they came from another dimension.

[sdp]

Rocksteady and Beebop can be pretty credible threats, after all they are large and intimidating, they just aren't very smart. Not much different than how Tokka and Rahzar were portrayed.

[Turo602]

Tokka and Rahzar were "Babies, their Babies uhh"

[gobo]

Originally Posted by sdp

Well that is not what I mean though...

Whether or not that's what you meant, it's what you said. So, I'm guessing you mean just keep them consistently in their post-mutation, Season 1 character. Right? I'd be down with that.

Originally Posted by Turo602

Tokka and Rahzar were "Babies, their Babies uhh"

Don't forget that Dr. Jordan has added something to the ooze to stunt their cognitive development. In other words, he kept 'em stupid.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

Rocksteady and Beebop can be pretty credible threats, after all they are large and intimidating, they just aren't very smart. Not much different than how Tokka and Rahzar were portrayed.

I'm not sure Tokka and Rahzar are good examples of how Bebop and Rocksteady could "work" on screen.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm not sure Tokka and Rahzar are good examples of how Bebop and Rocksteady could "work" on screen.

I can see it work. They can still be idiots and pose a physical threat, with weapons and whatnot. A couple morons shooting guns are still threats.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I can see it work. They can still be idiots and pose a physical threat, with weapons and whatnot. A couple morons shooting guns are still threats.

True. It's just not a compelling TMNT film at that point, IMHO.

[Krutch]

It's not what I'd prefer either, but hey, if we're talking an OT adaptation, my expectations would be pretty low already so what the hell?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

True. It's just not a compelling TMNT film at that point, IMHO.

You'd rather have baby-minded mutants that called Shredder 'Momma'?

[Dragon Turtle]

Originally Posted by sdp

Ok before everyone hates on this...

Lets say Paramount changes the new movie to be based more on the OT. Now before you think it as a lame kids movie...It would be live action and based on the OT but it'd be a serious take on it. You'd have Krang/Rocksteady/Beebop/technodrome all in the movie so it wouldn't be based on the Mirage comics however like I mentioned it wouldn't be kiddified it'd still be PG/PG-13 trying to get that older target audience as well, similar to Transformers was marketed.

It wouldn't be out of the question to see Viacom/Nick/Paramount go this route, since it's worked well for them in the past, they could easily PG-13 up the old cartoon just like Transformers and G.I. Joe.

Now this would be a sure hit since this is what everyone who grew up with the turtles want, a new movie based on the show/version they watched as kids but made "also" for adults not just kids. We all know we're in a minority and most don't know or care that the turtles did not start as a cartoon and thats not the version they want to see.

There are no guarantees to whether a TMNT movie based on the OT will be a sure fire hit, to truly reach out to a larger audience they need to go beyond OT fans. I believe the concept of the turtles is strong enough without the OT elements.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

You'd rather have baby-minded mutants that called Shredder 'Momma'?

That would be as equally non-compelling as it was in 1991. Of course, like most I was more forgiving as a 10 year old... though if we're all throwing in the towel that that's the audience they ought to be targeting, then the battle is already lost.

There are no guarantees to whether a TMNT movie based on the OT will be a sure fire hit, to truly reach out to a larger audience they need to go beyond OT fans. I believe the concept of the turtles is strong enough without the OT elements.

Completely agreed. To say nothing of the fact that the OS hardcore fans have already long aged themselved out of the target demographic of these types of films.

The question keeps coming up: "What fans should the movie be for? OS fans? Mirage TMNT fans? Most people know about the OS! That's what they should go towards! How many Mirage comics fans are there? Like 1,000?"

The answer is... no fans. Existing ones, anyway. As I said, even the OS fans have aged themselves out of the Holywood demographic for movies like these. The only sound solution left, I believe, is the one they've never, ever tried before... a relatively faithful take on the comic book source material with a visionary director in nothing less than PG-13.

Will that happen, or will history and the vicious circle of the snake eating its own tail (TPTB making TMNT product that is too easy to outgrow again and again, then wondering why it fails)... the jury is out. But rooting back to the OS children's cartoon for mining material is ass-backwards.

Now, for the new CGI cartoon in 2012? Why not? They can do whatever they want for the latest children's cartoon. It is, after all, for children.

[sdp]

Of course an OS movie doesn't guarantee a hit, but nothing guarantees a hit. Focusing on the 80s show does give them a large audience since its what people who grew up with it know and like and new kids would be interested just as we were as kids.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Completely agreed. To say nothing of the fact that the OS hardcore fans have already long aged themselved out of the target demographic of these types of films.

The question keeps coming up: "What fans should the movie be for? OS fans? Mirage TMNT fans? Most people know about the OS! That's what they should go towards! How many Mirage comics fans are there? Like 1,000?"

The answer is... no fans. Existing ones, anyway. As I said, even the OS fans have aged themselves out of the Holywood demographic for movies like these. The only sound solution left, I believe, is the one they've never, ever tried before... a relatively faithful take on the comic book source material with a visionary director in nothing less than PG-13.

How did the OS fans aged themselves out of the target demographic long ago for these films? Just like other 80s revivals they are the right age.

And they've already tried a Mirage adaptation with the original movie, albeit with changes but thats to be expected for any hollywood adaptation. Batman Begins is not a straight forward comic book adaptation either. Also the turtles are NOT Batman, you can't expect the regular demographic to treat the turtles like Batman, the whole concept by itself is still silly heck the comic started as a parody.

I'd prefer the version we were promised before the buyout but I don't think I'd be against it being adapted from the OT. And besides very few Mirage fanboys, thats the version all the general public would want.

Now, for the new CGI cartoon in 2012? Why not? They can do whatever they want for the latest children's cartoon. It is, after all, for children.

Thats ignorant like saying comic books are after all for children.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by sdp

Thats ignorant like saying comic books are after all for children.

Weren't they both originally created for Children?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

How did the OS fans aged themselves out of the target demographic long ago for these films?

Old Father Time, I suppose. Are there a lot of OS fans out there that are 15-21?

Just like other 80s revivals they are the right age.

What, like G.I. Joe and Transformers? If you were to break down the ticket sales of those, how many do you suppose were the actual GI Joe/Transformers fans from the 80s and how many were tweens and teens -- ones that had never seen any Transformers or GI Joe cartoons from the 80s -- that wanted to see robots fight each other and a big summer actioner? Or to see Megan Fox bend over? The aged, existing fandoms are the icing on the cake, not the cake itself, man.

And they've already tried a Mirage adaptation with the original movie, albeit with changes but thats to be expected for any hollywood adaptation.

C'mon, let's take off the nostalgia glasses. It was a good movie and remains one... but while it had heart and a world more "grit" than the other movies (which let's keep in mind is not saying much), they essentially made it a slapstick comedy in more places than not... and the crux of it to be, "Oh no! Will little Danny turn to the Dark Side and join the evil Foot Clan halfway house for children?" I don't remember that rubbish in the comic books.

Batman Begins is not a straight forward comic book adaptation either.

It's an amalgam of very successful, very critically praised Batman comic book stories and elements. I don't think it's unrealistic to think a similar approach to TMNT would bear similar fruit.

Of course, nowhere near that scale. No one's suggesting that.

Also the turtles are NOT Batman, you can't expect the regular demographic to treat the turtles like Batman, the whole concept by itself is still silly heck the comic started as a parody.

If you believe that the scant number of parodic elements in its inception were the crux of the TMNT then you probably shouldn't be a fan.

Eastman and Laird have both said it wasn't a parody. I'm going with them.

I'd prefer the version we were promised before the buyout but I don't think I'd be against it being adapted from the OT. And besides very few Mirage fanboys, thats the version all the general public would want.

Again, the people that would actually be versed in the time of yore of Bebops and Krangs are not the target demographic of films like these. And again, if they show up, great, it's icing on the cake... not the cake itself.

And "the general public" isn't what a movie studio and financiers are going to concern themselves with. They're doing an actioner, possibly a summer actioner, then there's a very specific target demographic they're going to be going for... it's not a difficult concept. And I'm sorry, but the OS fans haven't been a part of it for some time now.

Thats ignorant like saying comic books are after all for children.

You know what I mean. Little kids. 6-8 year olds who beg mommy and daddy to buy them action figures at Toys 'R' Us or have to save up money from the tooth fairy to do so.

[Krutch]

I think your underestimating the 80s revival audience. I'm in that demographic, and I know a ton of friends who were giddy to see their childhood shows on the big screen. These are the same friends who stick to downloading cam quality bootlegs of most movies, but were first in line for G.I. Joe and Transformers.

Dont get me wrong, I'd much rather see a true representation of Mirage Turtles as well. But unless a big name director comes on board feeling the same as we do, expect a movie geared towards the 80s revival crowd.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Old Father Time, I suppose. Are there a lot of OS fans out there that are 15-21?

I know plenty of 18-21 TMNT fans, I'm only 23 myself.

I think you're underestimating the power of these old franchises, online there was huge hype and talk on them from people who grew up with them, I also knew plenty of older people than me who were very excited for these movies based on the shows they age. Are they the main demographic for the movie? Kind of, they make the movies to be able to appeal to kids and an older audience. Kids will buy all the toys and merchandise but if they were the only audience then they'd be G rated movies. The movies are obviously marketed to both audiences, and no, if the movie wasn't called Transformers and it was just about transforming robots fighting each other and Megan Fox the movie would not have been in people must watch list. You don't give enough credit to people who grew up with it not necessarily fandoms.

C'mon, let's take off the nostalgia glasses. It was a good movie and remains one... but while it had heart and a world more "grit" than the other movies (which let's keep in mind is not saying much), they essentially made it a slapstick comedy in more places than not... and the crux of it to be, "Oh no! Will little Danny turn to the Dark Side and join the evil Foot Clan halfway house for children?" I don't remember that rubbish in the comic books.

It's an amalgam of very successful, very critically praised Batman comic book stories and elements. I don't think it's unrealistic to think a similar approach to TMNT would bear similar fruit.

No nostalgia glasses, I'm just saying that it was a fairly decent adaptation from the comic. Not 100% accurate of course but no movie or cartoon adaptation of comic/books ever are, they always change stuff for one reason or another.

And I disagree, the turtles is a silly concept and it can not be sold to a mass audience as easily. No one wants a grimdark adaptation besides us the fandom. Yeah they'll take a more serious take on it whether based on the 80s show or Mirage comic adaptation but never a more direct gritty Mirage adaptation, that will never happen. So no a similar approach to what Begins/Dark Knight wouldn't work it would definitely have to be lighter and have more humor a la Transformers/GI Joe.


Anyways in conclusion since I think my post is kinda messy...what I mean to say is you are not giving the OT enough credibility to work as a movie. I perfectly understand that is now that you want to see and I don't necessarily want it to be that I'd also prefer the version that we were told before the buy out, this is just a "what if" and I think I'd be alright with it. And if it happened I think it would be a hit since its what people want and kids would love it, would the version we were promised before the buyout also be a hit? I also definitely think if done right it can be a hit and do great. Only thing I disagree is that an OT influenced movie would be what people want and that the only way the movie can get an older audience is being a more direct adaptation.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

I know plenty of 18-21 TMNT fans, I'm only 23 myself.

I think you're underestimating the power of these old franchises, online there was huge hype and talk on them from people who grew up with them, I also knew plenty of older people than me who were very excited for these movies based on the shows they age. Are they the main demographic for the movie? Kind of, they make the movies to be able to appeal to kids and an older audience. Kids will buy all the toys and merchandise but if they were the only audience then they'd be G rated movies. The movies are obviously marketed to both audiences, and no, if the movie wasn't called Transformers and it was just about transforming robots fighting each other and Megan Fox the movie would not have been in people must watch list. You don't give enough credit to people who grew up with it not necessarily fandoms.

I don't belittle it. I'm sure there was many thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of the actual kids -- now grown -- that used to watch the original Transformers and GI Joe cartoons that went to the theatre to see the movie. These do, however, account for only a small percentage of the box office returns.

No nostalgia glasses, I'm just saying that it was a fairly decent adaptation from the comic.

Some scenes. Thematically it was quite another beast.

Not 100% accurate of course but no movie or cartoon adaptation of comic/books ever are, they always change stuff for one reason or another.

Of course. But then there's... adding stuff in that wouldn't be and isn't organic to the universe of the source material. Excess of slapstick and Foot Halfway House for Troubled Youths and Darth Shredder, I'm talking to you.

And I disagree, the turtles is a silly concept and it can not be sold to a mass audience as easily. No one wants a grimdark adaptation besides us the fandom. Yeah they'll take a more serious take on it whether based on the 80s show or Mirage comic adaptation but never a more direct gritty Mirage adaptation, that will never happen. So no a similar approach to what Begins/Dark Knight wouldn't work it would definitely have to be lighter and have more humor a la Transformers/GI Joe.

Which is fine... as long as the humor isn't an excess of slapstick and there's the right, comic-equivalent (or close) amount of "ninja action" to balance things out.

Anyways in conclusion since I think my post is kinda messy...what I mean to say is you are not giving the OT enough credibility to work as a movie.

It can work as a movie, I'm not doubting that. But is going that route the best shot a new movie has at maximizing success? Is it the best, most logical option on the table? Absolutely not.

I perfectly understand that is now that you want to see

While I am a unapologetic hardcore fan of the comics and little else, it isn't about what I want to see... I'm talking about what we haven't seen -- the last bastion that's never been tried before while every other route has been explored:

A kick-ass TMNT movie that brings the comic universe to life.

and I don't necessarily want it to be that I'd also prefer the version that we were told before the buy out, this is just a "what if" and I think I'd be alright with it. And if it happened I think it would be a hit since its what people want and kids would love it, would the version we were promised before the buyout also be a hit? I also definitely think if done right it can be a hit and do great. Only thing I disagree is that an OT influenced movie would be what people want

What people? We're back to talking about the existing TMNT fans, which the studio can't and shouldn't concern itself with (I hate to say it).

and that the only way the movie can get an older audience is being a more direct adaptation.

You say that like it must be be an OS influenced movie or it must be a "more direct adaptation." What precludes a "more direct adaptation" that's PG-13 (I'm not advocating an R-rated movie here, as much as I'd love it) from drawing in the kiddies? If you think I'm underestimating the draw of the OS on screen, you are woefully underestimating the drawing power of films with kid-friendly enough premises (hey, Turtles that are Ninjas is pretty much a cool draw in itself, as a concept) that don't cater to the lowest common denominator.

[Dragon Turtle]

The question keeps coming up: "What fans should the movie be for? OS fans? Mirage TMNT fans? Most people know about the OS! That's what they should go towards! How many Mirage comics fans are there? Like 1,000?"

The answer is... no fans. Existing ones, anyway. As I said, even the OS fans have aged themselves out of the Holywood demographic for movies like these. The only sound solution left, I believe, is the one they've never, ever tried before... a relatively faithful take on the comic book source material with a visionary director in nothing less than PG-13.

It's a sound solution, but not the only one, as much as I feel that a TMNT movie doesn't need to cater to OT fans to be successful, building a movie around the OT and making it PG-13 could potentially be just as successful as one based on the comics, since the general public, at this point, probably doesn't care about either to any great extent.

Originally Posted by sdp

Of course an OS movie doesn't guarantee a hit, but nothing guarantees a hit. Focusing on the 80s show does give them a large audience since its what people who grew up with it know and like and new kids would be interested just as we were as kids.

Unless you can guarantee every kid who grew up a fan of the OT will automatically go out and see a movie that's focused on the OT, the size of the audience this type of movie would attract is pure speculation.

Originally Posted by Krutch

I think your underestimating the 80s revival audience. I'm in that demographic, and I know a ton of friends who were giddy to see their childhood shows on the big screen. These are the same friends who stick to downloading cam quality bootlegs of most movies, but were first in line for G.I. Joe and Transformers.

I'm in the demographic of the 80s revival audience, but even I don't believe that it was this demographic that powered movies such as Transformers and G.I. Joe to nearly 2 billion in total box office.

If there is anything that movies such as Transformers and G.I. Joe have taught us is that, the the general public could care less about the source of the content of the movie, just as long as something blows up.