Have the writers of TNM ever weighed in on the continuity issues?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by sdp

No less non-canon than the archie and image series.And as non-canon as 2k3 since it'll never be referenced ever again. And now that Nick owns TMNT I'm sure Venus is not out of bounds anymore.

You guys have an erroneuos definition of "canon".

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

I am really interested in seeing that Eastman quote, though. In my mind, that would settle the whole thing, plot oddities or not.

To me, it wouldn't. While Kevin did add some creative input into the movies, he did not write or direct... so while Kevins opinion on Mirage Comics canon may hold signifigant meaning to me, what he has to say about TMNT movies and TV shows does not.

[Cipher]

I've never heard any official word on it being a movie tie-in outside of very early press releases. As in, early enough for that element to have been downplayed or dropped by the time of airing.

Whatever vision Eastman originally had was clearly violated by studio involvement, censorship, and budget restraints anyway.

For my money, The Next Mutation is to the movies as TMNT Adventures is to the Fred Wolf cartoon. They share the same background and elements, but are not directly related in continuity.

And it is not, as sdp implied, because I have some burning hatred for the series and don't want it to connect to the movies. It's because there's nothing other than some aesthetic similarities (Splinter's ear, the subway lair) to imply they do connect, while there's tons of evidence implying they don't (Shredder being alive being by far the largest). Sure, you could go out of your way to explain the contradictions, but the series offers nothing on its own. You'd think if they were really pushing it in that direction, they'd give viewers at least a throw-away line or something.

[John Pannozzi]

BTW, exactly what episodes of The Next Mutation featured cameos by April as a reporter?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

BTW, exactly what episodes of The Next Mutation featured cameos by April as a reporter?

That's bull sh*t. There was one episode with a reporter wearing a yellow blouse.

Reference, yes. Cameo, no.

[Mindy]

With something as huge as TMNT, who *can* keep up with all that stuff anyways? (And I mean the creators/artists/writers, not fans with a lot of time and dedication).

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Cipher

while there's tons of evidence implying they don't (Shredder being alive being by far the largest).

Which are these "tons" of contradictions?
Shredder being alive does not count since how he survived the first movie is not explained either and people don't question that at all yet consider they don't debate the second movies canonicity.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

That's bull sh*t. There was one episode with a reporter wearing a yellow blouse .

Reference, yes. Cameo, no.

Actually it was two (three?)times, and THAT is the definition of a cameo, if not then it'd be a "small guest appearance".

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

You guys have an erroneuos definition of "canon".

I don't, I was just explaining with his "canon" comment.

[GodzFire]

TMNT '07 was canon continuity, The Next Mutation was not and never will be.

Deal with it sdp.

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

[johnboy3434]

Originally Posted by sdp

Actually it was two (three?)times, and THAT is the definition of a cameo, if not then it'd be a "small guest appearance".

What he's saying is that reporter + yellow blouse =/= April, no matter how many times she shows up.

And Shredder being alive and not mutated with no explanation is a strike against it being in the film's continuity, no matter how you spin it. Yeah, there's possible explanations, but the fact that you have to go hunting for them only confirms that it's a problem. What you have is Splinter's implied origin and the abandoned subway as turtle HQ. The Archie Comics universe had the entire pilot miniseries of the '87 cartoon in its continuity, but anyone could tell you that it is demonstrably separate from said cartoon.

Just because something shares specific elements with another continuity does not mean it is part of said continuity. And tonal similarities are the weakest of all ties, because plenty of series have changed tone significantly without switching continuities. That's why TMNT could easily be considered a sequel to the '90s films, despite the references to aliens and such in the prequel comic. Besides, the first three films gave us slime that can somehow give animals sapience and completely alter their physical structures, "antidotes" that can somehow reverse the effects of said slime, as well as an antique staff that can act as a time machine. You're telling me that aliens and interdimensional monsters are out of place in a world like that?

Originally Posted by GodzFire

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

Okay, I know sdp is annoying, but there's no need to go all elitist like that. Venus was a stupid, stupid creative decision, but pulling this "pretending she doesn't exist" BS only succeeds in making you like a huge dork.

[sdp]

^^^^^

TMNT 2 is not in continuity with the first movie since Shredder is alive in it while he is clearly crushed in the first movie after falling off a building that was several stories high. not to mention no sign of Casey.

TMNT 3 is not in continuity because Tatsu doesn't show up.

Originally Posted by GodzFire

TMNT '07 was canon continuity, The Next Mutation was not and never will be.

Deal with it sdp.

Venus what? I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with that name. Long live 4 and only 4 Turtles.

Except TMNT 07 is clearly not and the director even said it wasn't.

TNM was clearly meant to be a continuation however even if it wasn't official.

Also nothing wrong with Venus, she was ironically the most interesting thing out of TNM.

You can think what you want but in the end there are more connections and less contradictions to the live action movies in NT:TNM than TMNT 2007.

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

What he's saying is that reporter + yellow blouse =/= April, no matter how many times she shows up.

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.

Okay, I know sdp is annoying

I'm annoying because you don't like my opinion?

Oh and the Archie analogy doesn't work here since that universe clearly went on a different direction and became its own beast. The movies just ended and the show continued from there.

[johnboy3434]

Originally Posted by sdp

TMNT 2 is not in continuity with the first movie since Shredder is alive in it while he is clearly crushed in the first movie after falling off a building that was several stories high. not to mention no sign of Casey.

Yeah, you're right... except for the fact that you're wrong in every conceivable way. They referenced the fact that he fell into a garbage truck. You see him struggle out of a pile of garbage. And most importantly, everyone THINKS he's dead. They acknowledge that he suffered an obviously fatal blow, but that he's back anyway. TNM pretends nothing happened. TMNT3 shares a lot of the cast and crew of the first two films, and that combined with the lack of even potential contradictions, the subway station, and the number in the title is enough for a good faith assumption.

TNM references NOTHING of the events from the film trilogy, outside of a scar on Splinter's ear and an abandoned subway station, and those aren't even events, just set dressing that carries the connotation of events. That's pretty weak as far as connections go. When Shredder shows up in the pilot, no one is surprised that he's alive. No one is surprised that he's not mutated. It's business as usual with no explanation, and that is a HUGE strike against it being in the same continuity. Expecting viewers to fill in blanks that gargantuan is not reasonable. End of discussion.

Originally Posted by sdp

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.

I didn't say I agreed with him. I just said that was his point, and that you misunderstood it. I would probably agree that it was intended to be April, even if the lack of ANYONE mentioning her name is reason enough to be skeptical.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

Yeah, you're right... except for the fact that you're wrong in every conceivable way. They referenced the fact that he fell into a garbage truck. You see him struggle out of a pile of garbage. And most importantly, everyone THINKS he's dead. They acknowledge that he suffered an obviously fatal blow, but that he's back anyway. TNM pretends nothing happened. TMNT3 shares a lot of the cast and crew of the first two films, and that combined with the lack of even potential contradictions, the subway station, and the number in the title is enough for a good faith assumption.

TNM doesn't pretend nothing happened, the show takes place years after their original adventures and aren't teenagers anymore. Its been a while so you don't expect them to explain that. They do mention they've defeated Shredder before and when they defeat him in the pilot they mention something along the lines of if he's gone for good this time.
Its not that big of a plothole that can't be resolved with a simple explanation. Even Tokka/Rahzar were demutated in that same movie. In fact I know a lot of us as kids didn't think Shredder died with that and when the hand moved we thought he'd come out for an epic final showdown and not just be defeated without even fighting the turtles. Heck the OT has bigger plotholes than that.

TNM references NOTHING of the events from the film trilogy, outside of a scar on Splinter's ear and an abandoned subway station, and those aren't even events, just set dressing that carries the connotation of events. That's pretty weak as far as connections go. When Shredder shows up in the pilot, no one is surprised that he's alive. No one is surprised that he's not mutated. It's business as usual with no explanation, and that is a HUGE strike against it being in the same continuity. Expecting viewers to fill in blanks that gargantuan is not reasonable. End of discussion.

Well like I said the show takes place many years after, thats the basis of the show that they aren't teenagers anymore. It doesn't reference the film trilogy but the show was made as a continuation this is very clear when watching the show. If you don't want to consider it ok, no big deal but like I said TNM has more connections to the trilogy than the fourth movie does.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by sdp

Its clearly a cameo, the camera focused on her for a few seconds the times it happened. But I guess by your logic Professor X did not cameo in X-Men Origins and it was just some bald guy in a wheelchair.

Wow, you're a tool. Of course the camera focused on her... have you ever seen a f***ing newscast that did not focus on the reporter?

That's like saying Manny Ramirez is copying Joe DiMaggio just because he's right handed.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by johnboy3434

I looked through that site and found no such confirmation. Could you point me to it?

You'll need to use the Wayback Machine and look at it circa 1997 and 1998 or so.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

Well like I said the show takes place many years after, thats the basis of the show that they aren't teenagers anymore.

No it's not. It was openly said an in multiple places that the Turtles in TNM are 17... putting them only one year older than they were in TMNT 1-3.

[Powder]

Wow SDP, get over it. 2 & 3 are in fact in continuity with the first film, hence the term 'sequels'. Shredder was NOT crushed, obviously, only his helmet was. That was made pretty clear when he was shown alive repairing ONLY his helmet. The lack of a character does not constitute an 'out of continuity' assessment, by the way. The films (at least the first two for fact) take place within a few days of eachother so GOD FORBID Casey takes some time to recoup from his having been beat the hell up by master swordsman Toshishiro Obata. As for the third movie, ya boy Casey is feeling better & maybe, just maybe, Tatsu was in FREAKIN' JAIL... WHERE HE OUGHTTA BE.

Your 'theories' stem solely from personal preferance. You make up what you see fit. April did NOT cameo, she was referanced. Bebop did NOT cameo in 2k3, he was referanced just the same as Rocksteady (in human form) was in that common thug Gen meets. See these were simply 'shoutouts' to older fans, if you will.

TNM was NOT obviously a continuation of the films. I don't see how you can argue that the archie universe isn't a fitting example. It sure as hell is. The reason you say it isn't is because it was at one point based on the toon but stretched its branches into its own universe. They had archie exclusive villains, different story arcs, & sometimes, different personality traits in characters then what we knew. So, TNM didn't do that? Dragonlord, Wick, Bonesteel, Vam Mi, Silver, these are your exclusive villains. Vam Mi's missing heart saga, learning chinese magic, dealing with the mafia, these are your different story arcs. Splinter was a babbling fool, Donatello was Mr. tech as he was in the toon, Mikey was an uber annoying foul breathed numbskull who was played out in a horribly inaccurate way (like in 2k3), & Shredder was WEAK. What are those? Different personality traits that are contradictory to their movie counterparts. I think this makes TNM "A Beast of its own" if I remember correctly.

I'd say your "Archie is a bad example" statement has just been shattered, dude.

At no point whatsoever do the turtles of TNM referance their past. They contradict their bloodline, Shredder is miraculously de-mutated (and don't you give me that 'small dose' crap. That sh*t, realistically, would not have been reverseable without aid) & April doesn't exist. IF you DO consider her an existing character, then they don't know who she is & that would be the biggest contradiction of all.

You are merely basing your opinion on plot holes which you've chosen to fill with your own imagination. I'll give you points for creativity, some of them could almost work, but you're REACHING. Badly.

[ToTheNines]

To loosely reference a piece of dialouge from TNM...

Splinter: "Shredder, we have batttled hundreds of times in the past"

That really throws it out of the movie continuity.

Originally Posted by Powder

(and don't you give me that 'small dose' crap. That sh*t, realistically, would not have been reverseable without aid)

Johnboy gave a good example though: The Foot could have picked up the box of doughnuts with the retro-mutagen cubes in them.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Johnboy gave a good example though: The Foot could have picked up the box of doughnuts with the retro-mutagen cubes in them.

Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

[johnboy3434]

Originally Posted by Powder

Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

Yeah, that was just some fanwank on my part. I made up the whole scenario on the assumption that it was a continuation, not that everything was meant to be that way. Really, the more one thinks about it, the more obvious it becomes that TNM was just meant to be its own thing, with fan-friendly nods towards previous continuities.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Powder

Yeah, key word being COULD though. You can find anything if you look hard enough for it. Reaching doesn't deem TNM a continuation.

I certainly agree, I was just pointing out a more clever explanation than "he only took a small dose".

[Andrew NDB]

TNM was wholly intended to be a continuation from its very genesis. I know that bothers a lot of you with a lot of love for those movies that TNM could possibly be an extension of that universe... but it's the truth.