Was "City at War" the end of ambitious storytelling for Mirage?

[Matches Malone]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

I'll clarify what I meant when I said "read like a Big Two comic".

When I think of Indie comics, I think of books that are creator owned and have a narrative vision set forth by the creator that they seek to complete. Bone, Cerebus... they all tell these complete, self contained stories and are unimpeded by any sort of editorial meddling (because the creators ARE the editors).

Ignoring the "guest issues", I felt that Vol. 1-Microseries-Tales Vol. 1 had that same vibe of a direction set forth, followed through and met with closure.

But afterward, TMNT met with the sort of setbacks I associate more with Big Two superhero titles than I do with creator owned Indie titles.

Mainly, the constant creative team change-ups and how each new creative team undoes or ignores what was set forth by the last and we end up with a lot of "one step forward, two steps back". And that's not getting into stuff like constant volume renumbering.

It lost a unified creative control and direct narrative vision, leaving the series to spin around in circles and never really achieve anything because of all the staff shake-ups (as pointed out, Vol. 2 ended it's arc, but there was still so much more foreshadowed to be said). It suffered from the same setbacks we perceive as "editorial meddling" now n days when we look at Big Two comics (especially the New 52 DC universe, yeeesh).

Admittedly, Vol. 1 was definitely a case of "making it up as they go along" and may not have had Leo/#10 - RTNY - CAW planned as a milestone-to-milestone narrative structure from the very beginning, but it turned out that way and winds up reading like a complete and total, focused narrative (again, once you remove all the "guest" stuff).

You're definitely right that a lack of "ambition" isn't the right word. A lack of "focus" might be a better descriptor or perhaps a lack of "follow-thru".

We have this tight, complete narrative in Vol. 1/Micros/Tales Vol. 1 and everything afterward is just a lot of random "stuff". Some good, some bad, but always trying to go in ten different directions at once and ultimately not going ANYWHERE.

I definitely get what you mean regarding that aspect of the big two, and it certainly feels that way, but it's also kind of a mixed bag. Volume 4 definitely had that creator-driven vibe, yet lacked any kind of focus on a certain story it was trying to tell.

While CaW is arguably the end of the definitive TMNT story telling, it wasn't for lack of trying. If you jump around Tales Vol. 2, you can find that kind of focused story-telling (or at least attempts at) with things like Dan Berger's "Leatherhead saga" or obviously, Tristan Jones' "Gang Wars" and it wouldn't be all that different from your saying, "if you ignore the Vol. 1 guest era." If Tristan got to finish his arc (if he had an ending in mind), I would have considered that the last definitive Mirage storyline. All in all, I'd say Mirage was always kind of plagued with this syndrome that you associate with the big two, it just became more prevalent after CaW. Granted, Volume 1's guest era wasn't a result of "editor meddling" so much as "editor is too busy to sleep because the new numbers for toy sales just came in," but the resulting story telling is the same.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I use TMNT and Mirage TMNT interchangeably. So when I say things like definitive TMNT, I'm not trying to open up a bag of worms over what is more definitive, at least outside of Mirage.

[Dirty Blond]

Originally Posted by Matches Malone

editor is too busy to sleep because the new numbers for toy sales just came in

I 'd.

[Gyt Kaliba]

This has been a question I've been wondering for a while now actually, and since this thread kind of brings it up anew, I'll just ask here - I'm still wanting to get those hardcover collections IDW has been doing soon when I can finally find them for an affordable price, but hearing how inconclusive a lot of the other Mirage material is, that's kind of put me off of buying all of it.

So, if I were to just get the stuff up through City at War (assuming they've gotten there yet or will), I'd have a complete enough story that I wouldn't really have to worry about picking up the rest unless I wanted to on a whim? I wouldn't really be missing out on anything too important?

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

Are you planning on buying the Color Classics?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Originally Posted by ***The One True Shredder***

Are you planning on buying the Color Classics?

I was actually more considering those black-and-white hardcover volumes, but if those are cheaper maybe...are they hardy, and made to last, more-so than the single issues?

[Martin]

Originally Posted by Gyt Kaliba

I was actually more considering those black-and-white hardcover volumes, but if those are cheaper maybe...are they hardy, and made to last, more-so than the single issues?

They seem hardy enough, though mine's backs and edges are ripped already thanks to amazon's (and my local post office) great service. I also noticed that the thread that binds the book together might tear over time due to overuse. That being said the annotations are awesome and, I don't know about you, but I prefer my old-school comics in BW; so I think they are worth the buy.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Gyt Kaliba

So, if I were to just get the stuff up through City at War (assuming they've gotten there yet or will), I'd have a complete enough story that I wouldn't really have to worry about picking up the rest unless I wanted to on a whim? I wouldn't really be missing out on anything too important?

Getting the five hardcover volumes (four and five are still in the pipeline and will contain "City at War") along with IDW's two Tales books will give you every beat of the original storyline. The Tales books are somewhat optional, but some of their characters show up again in "City at War" and it helps to have the background.

That said, don't be scared off by the non-ending of the rest of the material if you like what you read there (particularly the more somber "City at War"). A lot of the guest artist issues or later volumes are great, either by virtue of being fun or giving the series a lot more emotional depth.

And I say this not as a usual comics fan. I'm a fan of some comic-book franchises, like Turtles, but my preferred reading material is literary short stories, etc. So I know endings are hugely important in fiction. It's a shame the Mirage universe doesn't really have one (as a narrative; we more or less know what happens to the actual characters), but I've still enjoyed what's there.