Why are the new movie designs good in peoples' eyes when Next Mutation's weren't?

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Powder

Ya know, I'm not sure if I agree with this. There was a time where I felt that way, but now, maybe not. While I pretty much hate the new designs (in the poster, anyway), I'm kinda glad we're not getting a more classic look. This film is lining up to be a polished turd, with its white-washing, shallow leads, bastardized origins, etc. It's probably for the best that they not relieve their bowels on the legacy of the turtles by masking something so horrid with good turtle designs, you know? At least this presumably crappy take will be wholly theirs, and not a riff on something familiar.

This and your roadkill chicken analogy, are hilarious analogies Powder. Can't wait for more of them...

[electric_sheep]

simple it was the 90 EXTREEEEEMEEEE version of the turtles, they tried to make them be cool, they failed miserably i think they are doing the same here...
plus those suits where horrible crime against god...
and nature...

[Powder]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

They're not going for extreme. All that is being accentuated is accessories, clothes, and physiques that highlight the individualities between the brothers.

You pretty much described the reason they're being considered extreme by so many of us...

[Jester]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

Hell, that isn't even as extreme as the change from all red bandanas to colored ones. Or colored elbow pads, tape, and knee pads with their superhero initials on their belts.

There's a difference between modifying the designs to make them more "kid-friendly" and what PD has done. Giving them color-coded masks and pads and initialed belt buckles wasn't an attempt to paint on their character traits but an attempt to make them more individually recognizable for kids (and mainly their figure buying parents.)

Pointing out their personalities via costumes reeks of laziness and to be honest strips them of any sort of nuance. There really is more to Michelangelo than "the party dude." He's also a sensitive ar-tist. It's not hardcore or dark, it seems even more childish, because it takes the individual color codes and kicks them up to 11.

But I guess it's the logical progression:
Mirage - Identical, all red bandanas
FW - Color coding in bandanas.
Movies - Distinct faces.
NM - Individualized bandana styles
4Kids - Unique color coded skin
Nick - Different builds
PD - ALL THE CHANGES!!!!

[Jester]

I love how you added the "fighting tape" like THAT is why we're all against these designs.

All of the prior "costume changes" really did little to integrate the "character" into it, just made the individual Turtles just that much more visually distinct.

You might be able to make an argument that the Nick character design do in a way attempt to, but it's nowhere near as extreme as giving them all scavenged clothes that seem to point to specific traits, like Leo, the Honorable Warrior, Raph the Brute, Donnie the Techie, and Mikey the Surfer Dude.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

I don't think that is an extreme re-invention. They just throw on a bit extra clothes that define their personalities, or interests.

What on earth is so extreme about that? You'd have to be a hard pressed fan boy stuck on one vision of the character to be that upset.

Hell, that isn't even as extreme as the change from all red bandanas to colored ones. Or colored elbow pads, tape, and knee pads with their superhero initials on their belts.

Before these designs were released we saw countless FAN interpretations of the characters keeping their core essence visually intact but just adding on more plausible personality defining traits for the characters like specific style of dress, etc.

Then we actually get something like those fan made interpretations of the turtles, and the "hardcore fans" are on their rag, PMSing about it.

Go on SHH, a non biased board about any and all things comic book movie related. The majority of them like the designs. They're not "casuals" or "platinum dune plants" ... they're just not slaves to one rigid vision like many fan boy dorks can be.

The idea behind their apparel suggests that people should be able to identify your personality based on your style of dress, which is something I'd like to think society has been trying to change. Being smart doesn't mean you should be trying to look like a robotic Steve Urkel. Subscribing to Eastern beliefs shouldn't require weighing yourself down with armor, when as it is, you have a (very heavy) shell & leathery skin. Etc. There are enough differences between their faces, builds, heights, bandanas, and so on, to tell them apart. Going to greater lengths to convey that, is extreme, especially when the look stems from stereotypes. Changing a mask color, adding a belt buckle, some bandages, these are subtleties. Calling those extreme is absolutely absurd.

I am hardly against variations, I'm one of the guys who supports the idea of getting feral monstrous turtles, who are the farthest thing from the smooth bulbous caricatures we've come to know. Just because we saw countless fan interpretations doesn't mean they had widespread support by fans. & Just because fans enjoy a particular work of art, or concept, does not mean they would like to see it on the big screen, or that it would translate well. There are some fan pieces out there, that use apparel, among other things, to make the characters unique, that I imagine many of us would prefer to these. It's not what you do, but how you do it. The execution of these designs is what's flawed, not the idea of them (even if it is undesirable to some of us).

I find it insulting, that those of us who speak on this issue logically, are somehow mere fanboys, dorks, whose well-written disdain over the matter is being compared to bleeding female genitalia.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

I don't think that is an extreme re-invention. They just throw on a bit extra clothes that define their personalities, or interests.

What on earth is so extreme about that? You'd have to be a hard pressed fan boy stuck on one vision of the character to be that upset.

Hell, that isn't even as extreme as the change from all red bandanas to colored ones. Or colored elbow pads, tape, and knee pads with their superhero initials on their belts.

Before these designs were released we saw countless FAN interpretations of the characters keeping their core essence visually intact but just adding on more plausible personality defining traits for the characters like specific style of dress, etc.

Then we actually get something like those fan made interpretations of the turtles, and the "hardcore fans" are on their rag, PMSing about it.

Go on SHH, a non biased board about any and all things comic book movie related. The majority of them like the designs. They're not "casuals" or "platinum dune plants" ... they're just not slaves to one rigid vision like many fan boy dorks can be.

Just about any Comic book movie site with a comment section and forum all seem very positive there are some people upset but no much the there totally over shadowed by thought thrilled about this movie.

Its like all the pissed of people decided to come to this site and vent its funny. I was thinking the opposite would have happen but nope most the people who like the movie and were new have been mostly scared away by all the over bearing negativity

Originally Posted by Powder

I find it insulting, that those of us who speak on this issue logically, are somehow mere fanboys, dorks, whose well-written disdain over the matter is being compared to bleeding female genitalia.

It how your going about it that's the issue and makes you seem like "fan-boys" It like even when people use logic as well they're wrong and that's that. How many time have I been shut down by being told Micheal bay is a military loving douche, or shredders a weaboo Even when giving perfectly plausible theories. they're always wrong because Micheal bay is a military love douche, and shredders now a weaboo. that whats annoying.

[Powder]

...

Michael Bay DOES put the military in most of his films and Shredder IS a weeaboo. These are not opinions, they are facts. Get that into your skull.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Powder

...

Michael Bay DOES put the military in most of his films and Shredder IS a weeaboo. These are not opinions, they are facts. Get that into your skull.

I under stand people think he puts The military in everything.

And we do not know Shredder IS a Weeaboo, People just keep assuming it because he is white. we don't know his back story this could be explained and this is exactly what i was talking about I'm not about to keep explaining it when you Obviously cant "get" it "into your skull"

Fichtner as shredder could be any number of thing Adopted by Japanese family, Love child Of and American and Japanese person, Reincarnated, or even Japanese Ala Cloud atlas. We don't know your just assuming his character is Automatically American Or just Caucasian and a Japanophile. this is an assumption not fact

[Jester]

Do we really know he is a weeaboo? I mean, the armor doesn't strike me as very Japanese and the only really Japanese thing in the movie we know of is the possibility of the Seppuku. Seems like just a paramilitary Shredder/Foot.

Then again not sure which is worse...

And if he's Japanese like the characters in Cloud Atlas it'd make little sense, since the reason for the race bending in that was to keep the same actors in multiple related roles.

[Jester]

You know...all the "logic" in the world doesn't help win your case when you end each post with a "What's with the stick up your butt!?" Just saying...it's not the best way to help win people over.

I don't dislike Bay, I just haven't heard or seen anything to make me excited about a new Turtle movie. Just the name TMNT on it isn't enough...quality is key.

I don't need the character designs to accentuate the characters...I need the writing and the acting to do that. I need the movie as a whole to do that. Using the designs to do it seems like a pointless short cut.

[Powder]

Chucker you more or less ignored everything I had to say and responded with "But these designs don't change their personality!". I was never making that point to begin with. We've made it quite clear why we dislike them. It has NOTHING to do with nostalgia, in saying that, you're making assumptions simply to discredit our valid opinions. & you cap off your posts with insults. It's clear you're the biased one. & I don't have a thing against Michael Bay.

Originally Posted by Jester

I don't need the character designs to accentuate the characters...I need the writing and the acting to do that. I need the movie as a whole to do that. Using the designs to do it seems like a pointless short cut.

Precisely.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

........

Agree with just about everything your saying.

If you wanna talk turtles hit me up on facebook

Its nice to have a like minded individual on hear there were more but they got scared off Sad thing two true fans should embrace new fans not shun them.

Also you actually a "Chucker" PM me
(so that we don't get torn apart for personal discussion)

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Jester

You know...all the "logic" in the world doesn't help win your case when you end each post with a "What's with the stick up your butt!?" Just saying...it's not the best way to help win people over.

I don't dislike Bay, I just haven't heard or seen anything to make me excited about a new Turtle movie. Just the name TMNT on it isn't enough...quality is key.

I don't need the character designs to accentuate the characters...I need the writing and the acting to do that. I need the movie as a whole to do that. Using the designs to do it seems like a pointless short cut.

And what if... and lets just put this out there...... The writing happened to be very well done then what??? Your basing you opinion on the assumption that the writing will be bad

Cant they look this way and have good dialog?

[Jester]

No, my assumption is not based on the writing being bad. I'm not assuming that the dialogue or action won't tell me about the characters, but why do the designs have to too?

If the writing is good, then great. That's what I want from a Turtle movie. What I DON'T want is character designs that spell out everything where the movie itself should do it.

The fact that the designs seem to be visual short hand for their personalities seem to tell me that PD assumes the story won't do that, though.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

Does Batman need to wear ears, a winged like cape, and a chest symbol?

I mean total overkill. No subtlety. He should just be a vigilante who is scared of bats since childhood. The writing, and acting should tell me that alone. Not his design.

Nowhere near the same thing, man. Batman has always had the cowl, the cape and the Bat logo. That's his basic character design. That's like the base TMNT with the masks, knee and elbow pads and belts. I have a problem with the excessive changes to the existing designs, not the designs themselves.

If someone were to decide to take Batman and say made the cape real, functional, bat wings, and gave him a fat wallet and chain because after all Bruce Wayne is a millionare. Oh, and lets throw in a magnifying glass, pipe and one of those Sherlock Holmes hats, because he's a detective. OH OH...and give him samurai armor complete with a new more ninja inspired mask because he's also a trained ninja.

THEN it'd be on equal footing. What you did was strip away all of Batman's character design, not add character defining elements on top of it.

[Powder]

Biiiiiiingooooooo.

& all without insults, too.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by FellowChucker

I was being sarcastic, but the point still stands. You all attack with this group mentality over these designs in all your overly nostalgic close minded glory. Scared off all the hopeful new comers who wanted to talk about the new turtles. People were excited.

I just happen to be the type who stands up for myself.


I need to win the people over here? Is that how I transform from a "casual" whose opinion shouldn't be taken seriously here or so I've been told? You guys are like a nerd gang. I don't need to win anyone over.

For the most part, really generalizing here, a lot of you come off like elitist douche bags. Over Ninja Fukking Turtles, so I'm not making any efforts to win over anyone.

Win people over.



I need to win the people over when they're demeaning my opinion, or giving me labels so my voice shouldn't be taken seriously. Like I work for Michael Bay, or I don't know the Ninja Turtles well enough if I like the new look.




I'm sure the writing, the way the characters are portrayed by acting in the movie will be doing that too, no?

Why wouldn't these characters if they plausibly existed not dress themselves like how we KNOW them to be, in essence ... as characters? I would totally see pop culture loving Mikey finding an old pair of Jordan's in the trash, cutting out the toe box and wearing them.

I could totally see student of the japanese bushido ways putting together is own makeshift battle gear compromised of bamboo sticks, and wood. Closely resembling visually the ancient ninjas, and samurai who roamed Japan.

I could totally see hot head Raph, the one who loves to fight constantly doing his loner thing spending time weight lifting, doing pushups, bench pressing heavy things in his spare time to get super big to help him, ya know ... in fights !!!

Who'd have thunk it !!! How dumb would it be if the character designs didn't represent who they were in spirit? It's like that for people, why wouldn't it be like that for walking, talking, mutated teen turtles?

And who on earth said the designs alone are the things that are defining these characters? It just accentuates things. That's not bad by any means. Does Batman need to wear ears, a winged like cape, and a chest symbol?

I mean total overkill. No subtlety. He should just be a vigilante who is scared of bats since childhood. The writing, and acting should tell me that alone. Not his design.

If I took all the Movie Turtles and put them in a room with 2k3 Mikey he be ripping on them all day.

On a design note despite Raph wanting to bulk up to have more strength than his brothers, despite Donnie using science to solve many of his problems, despite Mikey wanting to fit in with society. They are still Ninja's and speed and stealth will still be at the forefront of their minds. Leo would have this stuff hanging in his room and fanboying over it but to actually wear it?

To put that Donnie was a techie in 2k3 many episodes he carries a duffle bag. To show Mikey was more pop culture he says and takes on many trends and qualities modern teenagers have. You could find him glued to an IPad and one of the others make a joke about how attached he is to it. Leo is often portrayed as being the most mature but when lumped with his brothers they bring out his inner immaturity, the comedic possibilities there are endless Raph is a loner a tough guy having a bit of a build is fine, I'm sure the guy lifts in his free time (wouldn't be surprise if they all did) he probably pick up bad habits young adults would have such as drinking and smoking. You could've just had his headband tattered and torn compared to the rest of the Turtles heck all his gear really. and that would've gotten across to alot of people that he likes to fight or a bit of a trouble maker.

The clothes uh... The glasses? One Donnie (in any version) hates playing to the nerd stereotype Two I doubt a guy who is practically nocturnal would wear sunglasses even to "look cool". As much as a attention ***** 2k3 Mikey was, I can't imagine him wearing clothes other than to be funny and would shed them in a fight saying their in the way.

[Jester]

I'd agree with all of that, but you are a noob casual and must be destroyed...


Just kidding.

[A_Little_Too_Raph.9859]

Originally Posted by Jester

Nowhere near the same thing, man. Batman has always had the cowl, the cape and the Bat logo. That's his basic character design. That's like the base TMNT with the masks, knee and elbow pads and belts. I have a problem with the excessive changes to the existing designs, not the designs themselves.

If someone were to decide to take Batman and say made the cape real, functional, bat wings, and gave him a fat wallet and chain because after all Bruce Wayne is a millionare. Oh, and lets throw in a magnifying glass, pipe and one of those Sherlock Holmes hats, because he's a detective. OH OH...and give him samurai armor complete with a new more ninja inspired mask because he's also a trained ninja.

THEN it'd be on equal footing. What you did was strip away all of Batman's character design, not add character defining elements on top of it.

I'm sorry but you're absolutely wrong....Bruce Wayne is a BILLIONAIRE!!!