2014 TMNT: Objective Point of View of What Worked and What Didn't

[snake]

What worked
-----
Snow scene was kinda cool, even if it was a CGI-fest
Opening comic scene was neat
Karai, I guess?

What Didn't
----
Everything else. I'm not exagerating.

[LeoRaph]

I see what you're saying, and I agree with it, but I meant what I said in the context of this thread. When you ask people to give lists of what worked and what didn't work, all of their lists won't be the same. Why? Because they all have different inputs on it, and that's where opinions come into play.

Although, I certainly agree that there are objective problems (i.e. undeniable plot holes), and it's notable that there are certain things repeated in everyone's lists, some of which can indeed be called fact. But my point is that it's impossible for everyone's input to be the same. It's (mostly) subjective. That's all I'm saying. Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to bash your thread, I'm just making a point. I can appreciate that you're trying to limit the arguing, though.

I hear you too. Which is why this thread probably wont work but it's worth a shot all the same. In hindsight I should have just asked about facts only but hopefully this can remain civil. In no way do I expect everyone to have the same input, I think what I'm interested in most are the undeniable facts but if there are repeated opinions it can definitely factor in to the collective truth of it as well.

Have to tally it all up later but I'll let it breathe for a bit and see how it goes.

[Shark_Blade]

What didn't work: choppy/rushed story in some parts due to last minute plot alteration.

What worked: Everything else. Megan Fox, yellow jacket, Shredder, the turtles, etc.

[Galactus]

What worked:

The visual effects were for the most part very good.

The actors portraying the turtles were good even Knoxville though I'd concur Pete ploszek would have been a better choice.

I thought the Foot not knowing how many "vigilantes" there were in the subway fight was a small but cool ninja element that the movie otherwise lacked.

What did not work:

The comic-styled animated intro fell flat. The narrative was cheesily written and it seemed like a poor way to introduce the characters. In hindsight it came across as a way of saying "look there's turtles in the movie. You'll see them eventually...honest".

20+ minutes of April O'Neil's story with hardly any turtles stuff at all. This would have been boring even the actors were genuinely engaging.

The designs for the turtles themselves were completely over-the-top.

Splinter looked fake. I don't know if it was the design or the cgi itself but for the most part it looked terrible.

The animation for the young turtle sequence was definitely a case of poor cgi which is a shame as it was a pretty charming sequence which under normal circumstances I would have liked to have seen go on longer.

The cgi for the action was mostly well done but when it really got going it was hard to tell what was going on or which turtle was which. Even with the drastic individual designs the best way to tell them apart was still their different colored bandannas.

The altered origin was was relatively speaking more stupid than an already stupid origin and robbed us of a lot of charm of it being an accident as well as the the important part of having a personal connection with the series main villain. Their whole motivation to fight in the first place.

The movie relied way too much on the audience knowing who these characters were which is ironic considering Leibesman's claim that he was trying to make a movie were everyone could understand and enjoy regardless of whether they knew the characters or not.

Case in point I don't think we got more than five minutes of Splinter before his life is in danger so why should we care if he lives or dies? The only reason we do is because we know other versions of Splinter and care about them.

Similarly despite Splinter and Shredder have zero connection in this movie everything is played like they are lifelong enemies which only works because they are in other versions.

Also the turtles personalities are correct in the broadest terms. We never really get to know these turtles - the only reason we feel any connection to them is because we know other versions and feel connected to them.

The whole Splinter's life being in danger was badly played. I don't think Raph would ever leave his father in the ruins of lair that's been compromised not matter what, he'd at least move him to a safe location but despite dramatically leaving him fate uncertain the next scene it doesn't seem like he's worried but then during the rescue if his brothers not only is Splinter thought of as being at deaths door again but it was also their also their mission all along to get some mutagen to save his life - where the hell did that come from and how do they know mutagen will save his life?

Was the mutagen created to make super soldiers or was it to it created as a cure for a disease? A cure for all disease and heal injuries? The movie can't make up it's mind.

The adrenalin scene was stupid. The turtles also got back to New York quite quickly didn't they.

Shredder's plan to poison the city was stupid and doesn't pass any amount of scrutiny. Would the US get suspicious of this guy and his miracle cure, wouldn't anyone see gas coming out of sach's tower. It felt tacked on to give us a save the world plot when a more character driven battle would have worked better.

William Fictner's acting was bad in the parts were he was talking to the cage turtles and threatening April and Vern with the gun. Like stupid bad...see what I did there .

The Foot being a para military group based in New York that openly terrorise the city on a weekly basis yet no one catches them is more realistic than an organised crime syndicate how?

The lack of actual arts battles in general in a movie which is called Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Galactus

What worked:

The visual effects were for the most part very good.

The actors portraying the turtles were good even Knoxville though I'd concur Pete ploszek would have been a better choice.

I thought the Foot not knowing how many "vigilantes" there were in the subway fight was a small but cool ninja element that the movie otherwise lacked.

What did not work:

The comic-styled animated intro fell flat. The narrative was cheesily written and it seemed like a poor way to introduce the characters. In hindsight it came across as a way of saying "look there's turtles in the movie. You'll see them eventually...honest".

20+ minutes of April O'Neil's story with hardly any turtles stuff at all. This would have been boring even the actors were genuinely engaging.

The designs for the turtles themselves were completely over-the-top.

Splinter looked fake. I don't know if it was the design or the cgi itself but for the most part it looked terrible.

The animation for the young turtle sequence was definitely a case of poor cgi which is a shame as it was a pretty charming sequence which under normal circumstances I would have liked to have seen go on longer.

The cgi for the action was mostly well done but when it really got going it was hard to tell what was going on or which turtle was which. Even with the drastic individual designs the best way to tell them apart was still their different colored bandannas.

The altered origin was was relatively speaking more stupid than an already stupid origin and robbed us of a lot of charm of it being an accident as well as the the important part of having a personal connection with the series main villain. Their whole motivation to fight in the first place.

The movie relied way too much on the audience knowing who these characters were which is ironic considering Leibesman's claim that he was trying to make a movie were everyone could understand and enjoy regardless of whether they knew the characters or not.

Case in point I don't think we got more than five minutes of Splinter before his life is in danger so why should we care if he lives or dies? The only reason we do is because we know other versions of Splinter and care about them.

Similarly despite Splinter and Shredder have zero connection in this movie everything is played like they are lifelong enemies which only works because they are in other versions.

Also the turtles personalities are correct in the broadest terms. We never really get to know these turtles - the only reason we feel any connection to them is because we know other versions and feel connected to them.

The whole Splinter's life being in danger was badly played. I don't think Raph would ever leave his father in the ruins of lair that's been compromised not matter what, he'd at least move him to a safe location but despite dramatically leaving him fate uncertain the next scene it doesn't seem like he's worried but then during the rescue if his brothers not only is Splinter thought of as being at deaths door again but it was also their also their mission all along to get some mutagen to save his life - where the hell did that come from and how do they know mutagen will save his life?

Was the mutagen created to make super soldiers or was it to it created as a cure for a disease? A cure for all disease and heal injuries? The movie can't make up it's mind.

The adrenalin scene was stupid. The turtles also got back to New York quite quickly didn't they.

Shredder's plan to poison the city was stupid and doesn't pass any amount of scrutiny. Would the US get suspicious of this guy and his miracle cure, wouldn't anyone see gas coming out of sach's tower. It felt tacked on to give us a save the world plot when a more character driven battle would have worked better.

William Fictner's acting was bad in the parts were he was talking to the cage turtles and threatening April and Vern with the gun. Like stupid bad...see what I did there .

The Foot being a para military group based in New York that openly terrorise the city on a weekly basis yet no one catches them is more realistic than an organised crime syndicate how?

The lack of actual arts battles in general in a movie which is called Teenage Mutant NINJA Turtles.

Agreed with it all. Also, Raph spilling his guts at a moment of death with only works based on what we know of other versions.

I think Sach's 'stupid rich' line was the only good line he had, kinda like rubbing it in cause he was already stupid rich but still wanted more.

I'd add anything with Sachs doesn't work mostly cause he's a made-up and unneccesary character that was a bad idea from the get go. You see a Batman movie to see him fight Batman villains. You see Spider-Man to see him fight Spider-Man villains. You see TMNT to see them fight TMNT villains. Noone cares about Eric Sachs just like noone cares about Max Winters.

[Technogeek29]

What worked:

- The Turtles have very brotherly banter between each other

- April/Megan is very entertaining for the first 10 mins (after that she wouldn't leave)

- Splinter actually punishes the Turtles for their constant misbehaving

- Foot adapted with Modern times

- Splinter incorporating his tail into his fighting style

What didn't worked (and there is a lot)

- The pacing jesus I felt like I was on speed watching this movie everything is too freaking fast.

- The Turtles Why is it I know these characters yet I feel like I know next to nothing about them?

- Splinter's tail, while I like it sometimes it seemed sentient

- Splinter punishing the Turtles too harshly ( seriously choking your son half to death for not talking?) imagined if they actually did something to warrant that type of punishment?

- April who supposedly was suppose to be a main part of this film added next to nothing.

- Eric Sachs...Need I say more?

- Shredder/Shreddertron/Whatever transformer reject this was? Was barely a character beyond Saturday morning cartoon villain

- Fight scenes were devoid of any kind of tension, I felt like the Turtles falling of the roof would just leave a nasty bruise at best. And if you can actually see what's going on? We're not that impressive Splinter has the only good fight scenes (IMO)

- Michelangelo, the flirting is not what bother's me, the jokes are not what bothers me (however cringe worthy) The voice is not what bothers me, NO! It's the fact that's all there is to his character is one giant joke which stopped being funny by punchline #2.

- Raphael is again the main focus, and this is the worst representation of him yet A fellow poster said it best because we know the character we get why he is the way he is. But to anyone else and this movie's story it doesn't make any sense he is just more whinny than 2k12 Raph (and that's saying a lot)

-Splinter is barely and entity he has less lines than 2k7 Donatello so yeah enough said.

- Donatello is exactly what I feared, one joke that plays the entire movie, "The nerd of the group" That's it nothing more beyond that, heck I can't remember a single line he says mainly because I was rolling my eyes at the fact every word has to have three syllables or more. He can't just go for the simple approach? No he must over explain everything like every stereotypical nerd in media, for god sakes he is a teenager as well 2k12 Donnie has a healthy balance of nerd and teenager This movie doesn't even make the cut.

- The Foot adapted with modern times so yeah that is also a bad point to the movie as well. seriously if guns don't work but your stun guns do? Why in the heck are you still using fire arms my lord I got a headache from watching them still use guns against them. take your swords and cut them or stabbed them SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE!!!

- The size isn't really the issue, no it's more of the power the turtles have. Why have any form of martial arts or weapons for that matter if you can just hulk smash everything?

- why couldn't they just hulk smash everything? You're telling me they can throw 3 ton grates like pebbles but they can't break out of glass and shackles? Bull crap Also when they hit Shredder with their enhance super strength why isn't he flying across the screen?

- Why can't the Turtles be the title characters in their own movie? Oh that's right, The CGI IS TOO FREAKING EXPENSIVE!!! I brought this up earlier as something that would happen.

-Erich Sachs world domination plan is just stupid in the simplest way.

- How do the Turtles and Splinter know who Shredder is? They only had trouble with Eric Sachs Shredder was a non entity as far as they knew.

- And Last but not least how do you learn an ancient fighting art from a book? That's dumber than the rat learning ninjitsu from mimicking a human and I didn't think that was possible.

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

That's the main problem. We barely knew these turtles. They could have been brothers or just teammates. We at least knew Splinter called the shots and they cares about him (or at least Raph did). We barely knew anything about the characters except for their basic cartoon personalities and what is left to be assumed based on previous incarnations even though this is supposed to be a new version.

Also didn't like Mikey's unexplained rocket board. Again we have to assume Don built it cause he's the tech head. And then they just casually show it as if Mikey had always had a rocket board in all the previous versions. No. You don't just assume crap like that. You don't have Batman fly and make it seem like he's always fought crime with a jetpack on. You actually show Don working on it and giving it to Mikey, if anything it creates some brotherly interaction between them. Something. Just.... show something, anything that tells us who these guys are when they're noth being captured or flipping trailers around.

I agree with you 2 an extent. But we saw them interact as kids an train together in this movie as little boys. Hell we even saw them as babies together.

[Candy Kappa]

If I'm gonna write what I think didn't work, I'll end up with another post that I had to cut in two cause there wasn't enough count for one post.

What I actually did think worked:

Bernadette. I loved the scenes with Whoopi as April's boss, and her reaction to April's claims.

The Turtle actors. They where pretty darn awesome, and it was cool to know that they practiced with the signature weapons (at least Fisher did), their voices was mostly good, although Raph could have been a bit better and e should have voiced Leo.

Animation, the CG models despite my personal gripes with their design, was animated very well, and the texture work was superb.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

What didn't work: choppy/rushed story in some parts due to last minute plot alteration.

That's just pure conjecture.

We do know that an alteration was made after production had wrapped and did re-shoots to include a character that I guess we're supposed to assume is Oroku Saki but that's it.

Would the movie have "flowed" better if they'd just kept Eric Sachs as Shredder? Perhaps although I'm not convinced by much.

We do know (because the actors have publicly said so) that there were big alterations and re-shoots happening during the time the movie was still in full production mode. We can on;y speculate what they were but I think there's a few safe guesses. What seems pretty clear is that many of the changes were anything but last minute.

I agree that the movie was rushed but while the run time wasn't especially long it was plenty of time to tell a good story. Maybe if they hadn't spent 20 minutes on April O'Neil's story they wouldn't have had to rush telling (and I use he term loosely) a TMNT story.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Galactus

... they wouldn't have had to rush telling (and I use he term loosely) a TMNT story.

I honestly don't believe anyone involved liked the actual TMNT source material, hence the changes.
They didn't get it, at all.

This movie was like watching a TMNT episode of Drunk History.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Raph spilling his guts at a moment of death with only works based on what we know of other versions.

So refresh my memory - what exactly was that gag at the end?

Spoiler:

Did they really fall 50 stories holding the giant metal beam, only to land on their feet? Did I miss something? 4 massive turtles and Plastic O'neil hit terminal velocity plummeting to the ground holding onto tons of metal...and they land on their feet?

Meanwhile shredder hits the pavment, and it makes a giant crater?

If the above is true, file it under just ONE, of a myriad of problems I had with the film.

[Ville Leskinen]

For me it was the emotional connection with the title characters that was lacking in this new movie. If people complain about the first movie looking outdated because of the suits, well, atleast the emotional connection was there (like on all Henson creations). Can't say if this was objective or not though.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Ville Leskinen

For me it was the emotional connection with the title characters that was lacking in this new movie. If people complain about the first movie looking outdated because of the suits, well, atleast the emotional connection was there (like on all Henson creations). Can't say if this was objective or not though.

No that's pretty much right. Aside from a scene or two they were pretty much there with hardly any time to know them or see them interact. It doesn't help that 3 were captured for a big chunk of the movie.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Ville Leskinen

For me it was the emotional connection with the title characters that was lacking in this new movie. If people complain about the first movie looking outdated because of the suits, well, atleast the emotional connection was there (like on all Henson creations). Can't say if this was objective or not though.

I feel the only emotional bits in the movie played off of previous attachment with the characters outside the movie. It didn't earn it itself, but when Splinter was taken out in the lair fight I felt it, mainly because it was Splinter in general, and not because I felt for the movie's Splinter...if that makes any sense.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Jester

I feel the only emotional bits in the movie played off of previous attachment with the characters outside the movie. It didn't earn it itself, but when Splinter was taken out in the lair fight I felt it, mainly because it was Splinter in general, and not because I felt for the movie's Splinter...if that makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense, and I noticed that too. The movie did nothing to make you care about the characters within the movie itself - like all lazy "nostalgia movies", it's assuming you already do. You have to already be fond of them, or a fan, to get anything emotional out of it at all.

And if a story, no matter what it is, doesn't bother building the characters in their own right, it's a bad one.

[Myko]

Originally Posted by Bry

It makes perfect sense, and I noticed that too. The movie did nothing to make you care about the characters within the movie itself - like all lazy "nostalgia movies", it's assuming you already do. You have to already be fond of them, or a fan, to get anything emotional out of it at all.

And if a story, no matter what it is, doesn't bother building the characters in their own right, it's a bad one.

I think this could be an all right way to make a movie, generally speaking, but doesn't work when they stray so far away from the source material as the movie did, in terms of looks and backstory. The movie basically took the personalities of the TMNT we're used to and made a new look and backstory. When you do that you have to earn our appreciation of the characters, not just assume it because you made some basic traits of the characters right.

I would've been okay with all the changes to backstory and look if the movie hadn't been a non-stop rush between talky exposition scenes and action with no heart.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Myko

I think this could be an all right way to make a movie, generally speaking, but doesn't work when they stray so far away from the source material as the movie did, in terms of looks and backstory. The movie basically took the personalities of the TMNT we're used to and made a new look and backstory. When you do that you have to earn our appreciation of the characters, not just assume it because you made some basic traits of the characters right.

I would've been okay with all the changes to backstory and look if the movie hadn't been a non-stop rush between talky exposition scenes and action with no heart.

I mean, yeah - if you're doing a loose sequel or a soft reboot that's basically building on what came before, even in a vague way, then you can write it based on the assumption that the audience is gonna view it that way. But if you're explicitly starting over from square one and building the characters and their world from the ground up, you'd better do the work. And they didn't do the work.

TMNT fans (or those who follow the whole property) basically have to be okay with changes to the backstory and look because that's what we've gotten for 30 years. But most of those versions worked because they made us care about the characters and their story and treated the project like it was the audience's first introduction to them. At square one, you have to do that. Have to.

If someone walked into this movie having never heard of the TMNT before, what would it do to sell them on the characters and their story? IMO, it did absolutely nothing.

[D Piddy 1982]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

- How do the Turtles and Splinter know who Shredder is? They only had trouble with Eric Sachs Shredder was a non entity as far as they knew.

THIS.

It felt like the comic bit at the start tried to cover for this (as in it suugests Splinter is aware of Shredder), but still left it as a gaping plot hole.

[HotNunchuckFury]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

What didn't work: choppy/rushed story in some parts due to last minute plot alteration.

What worked: Everything else. Megan Fox, yellow jacket, Shredder, the turtles, etc.

Haha, I'm pretty much with you there.

Keeping it to pure facts is a challenge as loads of what I enjoyed is down to my opinion, but I'll try...

Pros:
- Shredder was in the film and he was Japanese.
- Karai had a presence in the film and was leading the Foot.
- Pizza was Mikey's weakness.
- They said Cowabunga(!)
- Splinter was strict but his love for his sons was apparent.
- The emotion of the turtles through facial expressions were very clear with the CGI.
- April was very ambitious and wore yellow.
- They are mutant turtles that grew up in the sewers of New York.
- Zero compassion shown from Eric Sachs towards anyone.
- The brothers had banter between each other.

Cons:
- No backstory between Splinter and Shredder given.
- No mention of Hamato Yoshi.
- No time given to allow the turtles to just chill at home.
- No footage of them training with Splinter.
- No reasons given behind individual kanji symbols.

So, from looking at my list, what I think didn't work is basically the stuff that was missing, all of which could possibly be addressed in the sequel. I just want to see more!

[jenna]

What worked for me

- The atmosphere / tone of the city
- The turtles seemed so real
- The first glimpse of the turtles at the dock and in the subway
- The raid on the lair - from Shredder v Splinter to the anguish on the faces of the turtles as they tried to get to Splinter
- Turtles were well cast (Alan Ritchson = very strong performance in particular)
- Raphael's expression when he sees Splinter has been hurt
- The turtles running over the rooftops to a thunderous musical score
- Homage to previous incarnations
- Some genuinely funny moments
- Some genuinely emotional moments
- Kiddie turtles watching the world above through a storm drain
- Donning their masks
- Seems a shame that I should have to mention this, but I also liked it for what it was not - It was not about aliens!

What did not work for me

- Lack of soul / substance
- Lack of character development
- Lack of Japanese culture in turtle training / upbringing
- The need to open a film with a narration
- How Splinter knew everything about everyone's motivation
- Splinter in general
- Lack of any real display of martial arts talent
- Massive turtles / bullet proof turtles / turtles clad in tacky accessories
- Raphael's bulky physique - too much. He was so big he looked like he was in pain!
- Villain motivation (particularly the casual attitude to unleashing a deadly toxin when they themselves are present)
- Run-time and pace (too much in too short a space of time)
- The Laws of Physics - at best inconsistent, at worst ignored
- Convenient placement of 'Adrenaline injection' button, convenient chemistry whereby adrenaline can replace blood in one's transport system, convenient instance of spontaneous healing of a cracked shell, convenient ability for a rat to learn ninjitsu from nothing more a book, convenient... oh never mind....
- Shredder suffers from his OT counterpart's flaw of leaving before getting the job done. Seriously... does he never learn? If he leaves the turtles alive and unsupervised they will get up again / escape. They are wily that way.

[neatoman]

It's hard to tackle something "objectively", since it is all about opinion in the end. When talking about "objective" criticism, that usually equates to trying to tackle something with as little bias as possible and with as broad expectations as possible.

What worked and what didn't? Well the story is a mess and some shots are unclear but when things are not murky or shaky it can be much more clear to the viewers...

What? Expected more than that? That's about as objective as it gets when it comes to critiquing movies, how clear the shots and editing is... Ignoring my personal beliefs, tastes and previous experience with things related to this movie, that's kind of what you're left with. If I was even more objective, I would end up with something like this...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...m_campaign=all