I kinda wish Image was still doin TMNT....

[cqb101]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

yanno who's really a bitch, Rob Liefeild, for murdering Deadpool, the greatest comic book ever.

Further proof of why I despise Robby!

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

WTF?!!

[Dane E5R]

I don't understand that either.

[tormentedvagrant]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

He was obviously trying to add some depth to what most people remembered as a kiddy show. I think it worked on some level.

thank you. Now everyone else...... I aggree that I would not like to see the turtles stay as they were changed in the image comics. I liked Erics comics for what they were a new series, a new look at them. I will aggree that eric is a hypocrit due to the fact that he complains that his chinges were ignored, while he defends those very actions unknowingly. He was once asked how crossovers are possible with story arks and other conflicts, and his remarks were to the point that, each comic series has its oun "alternate reality" and where crossovers occur it is a point where the two realities match up. If he did feel that way then wouldent the image series just be a diversion after the second series, an alternate corce of events?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

The Image plotlines still made me laugh out loud with their ridiculousness.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by cqb101

Further proof of why I despise Robby!

holy crap looks like caps got boobs!

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

ew!

[Dr. Doom]

that's the most disproportionate drawing I've ever seen.

[Straight-Edge]

>>The way it was handled was no way to chaznge the way people who saw the TMNT as a mere kiddie property . . . not at the expense of the original Mirage continuity.>>

Gotta disagree there. Larson did a *lot* to continue the Mirage continuity. He took the Tutles in a bold new direction (and may not have pleased many purist fans), but he never disregarded what came before. I think it's fair enough for Larson to expect that his stories be regarded in some fashion, and not simply forgotten. I think laird did him a grave injustice by taking the easy road, and not even trying to tie those stories itno Vol 4. The character development that was seen in the Image book has been *unequalled* in any other series. Through their suffering and tragedy (and also their wide breadth of companions, we got to see the inner workings of ou favorite green team. Raph's willingness to disobey his master, and do what *he* thinks is right.. Don's absolute comitment to intellect, and his will to live (shown in his fight against the cyborg entity).. Mike's peaceful, loving soul. they're all there, and nowhere else, so vivid. I think,, to lose that in the Mirage continuty, is what keeps me from even caring about it anymore. The new comic is teribbly static, and doesn't read to me as an action book, or a fantasy book. It reads like the "Golden Girls" version of TMNT... Imag read like"TMNT Extreme"... Ie. kind of a lot over-the-top, but still true to the coe of the characters tat make the story what it is.

[Karpo_007]

Im sure pretty many will disagree with that. Including me. When you talk about Image it feels like whole diffren't book that it was in reality. Laird did the right thing disregarding the Image volume. Majority is happy that the TMNT aren't mutilated or Splinter isn't fooling around with ladies. Also the fact that mike has a girlfriend fights against one of the main themes of the TMNT, being alone in the world.

While volume 4 doesn't come to the same level as original Mirage, it still has very good story telling[altough a little slow at times]. Definetly better than Image ever had. Thats how I feel. To each his own.

[Dr. Doom]

Well, the mutiating I can live without, yeah. While I agree that Image did an amazing thing, It really woulda sucked if, in mirage, Don was stuck as a cyborg for the resta his life, if Leo were to become know as "stumpy" and if Raph hid behind a mask all the time. Yanno, one that covers his WHOLE face, I hafta say. But I think something could really be leanred by the Mirage crew from what Larson did. I hafta kinda agree that Vol. 4 didn't exactly grab me by the nuts...that's probably why I never got any further than issue 5.

And back to Liefeild, isn't it funny how he saw it fit to destroy the only 2 creations of his I can think of that actually were popular, X-Force and Deadpool? Hey, Rob, I sure can't wait for the next "Youngblood" to come out!

Dumbass.

[Karpo_007]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Well, the mutiating I can live without, yeah. While I agree that Image did an amazing thing, It really woulda sucked if, in mirage, Don was stuck as a cyborg for the resta his life, if Leo were to become know as "stumpy" and if Raph hid behind a mask all the time. Yanno, one that covers his WHOLE face, I hafta say. But I think something could really be leanred by the Mirage crew from what Larson did. I hafta kinda agree that Vol. 4 didn't exactly grab me by the nuts...that's probably why I never got any further than issue 5.

When it was release it was pretty much the only TMNT thing there was, so I guess it worked fine as a replacement. But it isn't something many people try to look for years later, like original Mirage.

[Dr. Doom]

Original Mirage is a completely different story, tho. Vol 4 is just kinda........blah....I suppose the fact that I don't care for the artwork doesn't help either.

[Karpo_007]

New volume has very detailed stories, altough it moves slowly. Art is fine by me, and it's getting better. Of course it iasn't as good as the original Mirage, but the "mirage feel" is there and thats what matters. And it's very good to have a ongoing TMNT book wich target audience isn't kids.

[Quiller-Bee]

Originally Posted by Straight-Edge

>>The way it was handled was no way to chaznge the way people who saw the TMNT as a mere kiddie property . . . not at the expense of the original Mirage continuity.>>

Gotta disagree there. Larson did a *lot* to continue the Mirage continuity. He took the Tutles in a bold new direction (and may not have pleased many purist fans), but he never disregarded what came before. I think it's fair enough for Larson to expect that his stories be regarded in some fashion, and not simply forgotten. I think laird did him a grave injustice by taking the easy road, and not even trying to tie those stories itno Vol 4. The character development that was seen in the Image book has been *unequalled* in any other series. Through their suffering and tragedy (and also their wide breadth of companions, we got to see the inner workings of ou favorite green team. Raph's willingness to disobey his master, and do what *he* thinks is right.. Don's absolute comitment to intellect, and his will to live (shown in his fight against the cyborg entity).. Mike's peaceful, loving soul. they're all there, and nowhere else, so vivid. I think,, to lose that in the Mirage continuty, is what keeps me from even caring about it anymore. The new comic is teribbly static, and doesn't read to me as an action book, or a fantasy book. It reads like the "Golden Girls" version of TMNT... Imag read like"TMNT Extreme"... Ie. kind of a lot over-the-top, but still true to the coe of the characters tat make the story what it is.

In turn, I must respectfully disagree with you in a couple of areas.

In all fairness, saying that Larsen & Co. continued or mutilated the Mirage continuity is strictly a matter of opinion. Mine, obviously, is the latter of the two.

A "bold new direction" isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Larsen's series was not totally devoid of any redeeming qualities, but I felt that the low road was taken in a number of instances in order to go in that bold new direction. For example, had "the purists" not been angered with the previously mentioned mutilation of their beloved characters, the book may actually have fared a little better than it ultimately did.

It's my personal opinion that the property seemed mishandled in the sense that the creative team's efforts made it appear as if they were going out of their way to prove to non-TMNT fans—the folks who thought of TMNT as being a silly kids' cartoon—that the Turtles could be cool if done "Image Style". (Cyborg Donny, etc..) That's the way it came across to me, anyway.

That stereotypical "Extreme" Image element of the book is what was primarily responsible for turning me off to the series. Had Larsen's crew not relied so heavily on gimmicks and surface and had focused even more so on the character development and the progression of the stories alone, I most likely would have been a fan of the series.

Things change in both reality and good fiction, but the changes—in my humble opinion—need not be quite so "extreme" when dealing with such well-established characters as the TMNT. There's no real need to alienate long-standing fans of a well known property in effort to bring new blood to the fold. Both can be achieved, and ideally, both should be aimed for. Due to the relatively short life span of the series, it can be reasonably assumed that the book failed to strike a chord with either group.

In closing, my primary feeling on the issue is basically what I stated before: if the Image series had been launched as a series with a reality and continuity unique unto itself—which still could have picked up where Mirage vol. 2 ended—Laird, Larsen, the fans ... everyone would probably have been a lot happier. It certainly would have ended a little cleaner than it did.