The next movie should be a soft reboot

[snake]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Why? Nearly everyone going to this film already knowing the origin, retelling the origin story will only turn audiences away. People don't want more reboots, and while hardcores may be happy with a properly done origin, it is doubtful the public would go and see it.

Why would you expect people to already know the origin story? This isn't spider-man where it's universally known. The whole movie doesn't have to be based on the origin story, just have it condensed down, like the 1990 film.

[SurrealBrain]

Or maybe they won't mind another retelling...but if they were to reboot it now, yeah, it'd be best not to dwell on the origins, since regardless of how it was handled, the previous telling is still relatively fresh on peoples' minds.

Now, years from now, who knows?

EDIT: Somewhat Ninja'd.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Why? Nearly everyone going to this film already knowing the origin

They all know an origin. Mirage, Original Toon, 2k3 series, Next Mutation, Platinum Dunes, and Nick Toon all handle their origins differently, especially their connection to Shredder.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Why? Nearly everyone going to this film already knowing the origin, retelling the origin story will only turn audiences away. People don't want more reboots, and while hardcores may be happy with a properly done origin, it is doubtful the public would go and see it.

This seems to be completely the wrong way around. From Nolan's Batman series to the Planet of the Apes and the positive for Spider-Man: Homecoming it seems the public is very embracing of reboots when they are done well.

Even things like the Abrams-verse Star Trek and Amazing Spider-Man series where successful, just not as successful as the studios hoped. Even the decent-ish numbers of TMNT 2014 are to some degree attributed to curiosity over it being a reboot.

As for the audiences already knowing the origin? No they don't. TMNT is NOT Batman or Superman where everyone already knows the basics. Frankly there's core aspects of those two characters that aren't widely known either but with TMNT the general public is largely clueless and I think the Platinum Dunes movies bare this out.

If there's any one scene in both movies that demonstrates how badly they relied on people already knowing about the characters is in Out of the Shadows when Shredder meets Krang. That scene is such a stark tonal shift from everything in the movie up to that point which was goofy but grounded and in an instant we're hit over the head with a giant talking brain teaming up with Shredder with no explanation for how this exists and why they would team up. Watching it a theater I could "feel" most of the audience wondering what the **** was going.

Everything about the TMNT mythology is hardly ever explained and relies heavily on people already knowing and caring - even though in the context the new story it doesn't always make sense to do that (on the flip side everything about the new stuff the come up with for these movies is over explained in massive expositionary info-dumps but that's a different matter). If the reception of both movies proves anything it's that the general audience is not as familiar with TMNT is Paramount and Platinum Dunes were banking on.

In my experience isn't the general audience that is down on origin movies, it's a certain sub section of fans that want to skip ahead to more fan service stories and characters but while it maybe somewhat tired comparison just look at the MCU - they didn't jump ahead the Avengers, they took their time setting it up. I believe that if you follow the source material there's the basis for a good and commercially successful movie but as a fan I'm not blind that there's concepts in TMNT that on the surface is hard for people to get their head around. That's why you need the movies to show how and why these characters and their is the way it.

[TigerClaw]

I think people in general are tired of seeing Batman's origin done over and over, who wants to see Bruce Wayne's parents getting killed over and over again.

We know the Turtles and Splinter were mutated by Ooze, we seen that same origin in every iteration.

I think the best way to go about retelling an origin, is not doing an origin story movie, but rather, explain the origin during the opening credits, which is what Marvel Studios did with The Incredible Hulk movie.
https://vimeo.com/13912291

[Sabacooza]

Here's an idea. Do a top notch well written and executed movie with a proper well done origin to begin with so we can just keep moving forward with great films. The thing is, every time TMNT hits the big screen, we have no talent hacks making these and none of it is taken seriously so they flop and then they have to keep fricking rebooting it because they can't get it right the first time. You would think making a great film is rocket science but it really isn't.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Galactus

This seems to be completely the wrong way around. From Nolan's Batman series to the Planet of the Apes and the positive for Spider-Man: Homecoming it seems the public is very embracing of reboots when they are done well.

Even things like the Abrams-verse Star Trek and Amazing Spider-Man series where successful, just not as successful as the studios hoped. Even the decent-ish numbers of TMNT 2014 are to some degree attributed to curiosity over it being a reboot.

As for the audiences already knowing the origin? No they don't. TMNT is NOT Batman or Superman where everyone already knows the basics. Frankly there's core aspects of those two characters that aren't widely known either but with TMNT the general public is largely clueless and I think the Platinum Dunes movies bare this out.

If there's any one scene in both movies that demonstrates how badly they relied on people already knowing about the characters is in Out of the Shadows when Shredder meets Krang. That scene is such a stark tonal shift from everything in the movie up to that point which was goofy but grounded and in an instant we're hit over the head with a giant talking brain teaming up with Shredder with no explanation for how this exists and why they would team up. Watching it a theater I could "feel" most of the audience wondering what the **** was going.

Everything about the TMNT mythology is hardly ever explained and relies heavily on people already knowing and caring - even though in the context the new story it doesn't always make sense to do that (on the flip side everything about the new stuff the come up with for these movies is over explained in massive expositionary info-dumps but that's a different matter). If the reception of both movies proves anything it's that the general audience is not as familiar with TMNT is Paramount and Platinum Dunes were banking on.

In my experience isn't the general audience that is down on origin movies, it's a certain sub section of fans that want to skip ahead to more fan service stories and characters but while it maybe somewhat tired comparison just look at the MCU - they didn't jump ahead the Avengers, they took their time setting it up. I believe that if you follow the source material there's the basis for a good and commercially successful movie but as a fan I'm not blind that there's concepts in TMNT that on the surface is hard for people to get their head around. That's why you need the movies to show how and why these characters and their is the way it.

Actually, quite a lot of them do know the origin. It's just different people know different versions of the origin, from different mediums and sources. As for reboots, they can go either way on success or failure. And results have been mixed on all of the reboots you mentioned above, with different opinions on wither a reboot was needed or not in each case. In fact, one of those upcoming reboots you mentioned is NOT going to be an origin story at all, but pick up with the hero already in his career.

The only two film reboots that were universally praised were planet of the apes, which had been dormant for many many years (except for a poorly received Burton film) and Batman, which had been horribly mismanaged. Would a properly done TMNT origin film with the right director, script, and cast, be a hit? Absolutely. Is it necessary for a hit tmnt film? Sorry, but no. Wither or not they do reboot it with another origin remains to be seen, but the turtles can still have a good film even if they don't.

[Galactus]

Panda_Khan_Fan can I ask you a question? Have you ever tried to discuss TMNT to anyone outside the internet?

You wouldn't have to go far to find someone who would say something along the lines of "I used to love that show when I was a kid, my favorite was always Ralf" or "what was the that big dome thing with eyeball on top called again?" All you had to do was look at some of the comments when Out of the Shadows showed Krang and a not insignificant of people wondered since when did the turtles fight aliens. Sure, many people are aware of TMNT, many have been fans of one version or another as kids (even though the are generations that either too old or fell in between the cracks of when it was prominently in mass media) but it's hugely naive to think that the general public understand of the basic concepts and characters.

Despite both being bad I think there's a reason why TMNT 2014 made more than double than Out of the Shadows did. This should be a big question; why a movie with heavy backlash and negative press did better than a movie which included all the characters from arguably (and it is pretty arguable) the most well known version with an approach people advocated for years?

If you were a member of the general public that isn't a huge fan of the franchise TMNT 2014 looked as if it was giving this property the same treatment as many of the popular comic book franchises. It also looked like an introduction to these characters and story. The finished product botched this more than a little but that's what they channeled.

Now if you were a member of the general public that isn't a huge fan of the property perhaps a little wary after seeing the previous movie then why would you be swayed by characters you may only vaguely know. Sure, many fans creamed their pants for Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and the Technodrome but to non-fans it didn't even look like it would present all these outlandish concepts in an digestible way.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

It was because it had the unfortunate problem of not being very good.

sadly yeah!

i loved the visuals of it, but after leaving the theatre i couldn't remember a thing about it other than the Leo/Raph fight.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by myconius

sadly yeah!

i loved the visuals of it, but after leaving the theatre i couldn't remember a thing about it other than the Leo/Raph fight.

They really should have just made the whole 2007 film into a PS2 video game. It clearly wanted to be, anyway.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

They really should have just made the whole 2007 film into a PS2 video game. It clearly wanted to be, anyway.

only if it played like TMNT Arcade.


....or Turtles in Time.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

They really should have just made the whole 2007 film into a PS2 video game. It clearly wanted to be, anyway.

The video game for the film is actually way more interesting than the film itself to be honest... it adds way more depth to the family dynamic of the turtles, and spends way less time on Yaotl and the stones.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

The video game for the film is actually way more interesting than the film itself to be honest... it adds way more depth to the family dynamic of the turtles, and spends way less time on Yaotl and the stones.

i loved the heck out of that game for the 2 days it took me to beat it.
never could get myself to ever play it again though.
still have the re-print of issue #1 pre-order bonus. too bad it's the version with the re-done gray-tones though.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

You played it only once? I had it for Wii and I loved doing all sorts of parkour stuff with the turtles.
It had a rockin' score to it too.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

You played it only once? I had it for Wii and I loved doing all sorts of parkour stuff with the turtles.
It had a rockin' score to it too.

yeah, i played it and beat it even before the official release date.

[Leolead]

I disagree. I want to see the origin in REAL-TIME. (We've never seen that before), open the movie in Japan and spend 10-15 minutes on the Hamato Yoshi/Oroku Saki (ala Man of Steel Krypton) building all the way up to the Turtles falling into a Sewer with the Ooze. And go from there.

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Leolead

I disagree. I want to see the origin in REAL-TIME. (We've never seen that before), open the movie in Japan and spend 10-15 minutes on the Hamato Yoshi/Oroku Saki (ala Man of Steel Krypton) building all the way up to the Turtles falling into a Sewer with the Ooze. And go from there.

i'm fine with whatever they decide to do (IF another movie even happens) just so long as Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki are relevant to the story.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by myconius

i'm fine with whatever they decide to do (IF another movie even happens) just so long as Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki are relevant to the story.

Nope, that might anger the Chineese.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Galactus

This seems to be completely the wrong way around. From Nolan's Batman series to the Planet of the Apes and the positive for Spider-Man: Homecoming it seems the public is very embracing of reboots when they are done well.

Even things like the Abrams-verse Star Trek and Amazing Spider-Man series where successful, just not as successful as the studios hoped. Even the decent-ish numbers of TMNT 2014 are to some degree attributed to curiosity over it being a reboot.

As for the audiences already knowing the origin? No they don't. TMNT is NOT Batman or Superman where everyone already knows the basics. Frankly there's core aspects of those two characters that aren't widely known either but with TMNT the general public is largely clueless and I think the Platinum Dunes movies bare this out.

If there's any one scene in both movies that demonstrates how badly they relied on people already knowing about the characters is in Out of the Shadows when Shredder meets Krang. That scene is such a stark tonal shift from everything in the movie up to that point which was goofy but grounded and in an instant we're hit over the head with a giant talking brain teaming up with Shredder with no explanation for how this exists and why they would team up. Watching it a theater I could "feel" most of the audience wondering what the **** was going.

Everything about the TMNT mythology is hardly ever explained and relies heavily on people already knowing and caring - even though in the context the new story it doesn't always make sense to do that (on the flip side everything about the new stuff the come up with for these movies is over explained in massive expositionary info-dumps but that's a different matter). If the reception of both movies proves anything it's that the general audience is not as familiar with TMNT is Paramount and Platinum Dunes were banking on.

In my experience isn't the general audience that is down on origin movies, it's a certain sub section of fans that want to skip ahead to more fan service stories and characters but while it maybe somewhat tired comparison just look at the MCU - they didn't jump ahead the Avengers, they took their time setting it up. I believe that if you follow the source material there's the basis for a good and commercially successful movie but as a fan I'm not blind that there's concepts in TMNT that on the surface is hard for people to get their head around. That's why you need the movies to show how and why these characters and their is the way it.

Yes, they do. Most people who would go to a tmnt movie have a passing knowledge of the turtles. MOST of the older fans who would go to see a new TMNT film either know the OT origin, or the golden harvest film origin, or the 2003 origin. Younger kids know the Nick origin, as that show was popular just a short time ago. Most people who even vaguely the turtles know:

1.)toxic waste spill

2.) baby turtles down drain

3.) Human Ninja master/human ninja master's pet rat in vicinity.

4.) Rat/human ninja ninja master and baby turtles get mutated.

5.) rat raises turtles in the sewer and teaches on martial arts.

This right here- this is all you need to know for a given turtle story-flashback at beginning, done. Yes, I can already hear the cries of 'B-but Shedder! Cycle of vengeance! Foot clan!' That is a particular story that can be told at any time in a turtle series or series of movies. it's the thing I like about the nick origin- the first episode flashback covered the mutation, Saki/Yoshi was an afterthought in the second half, and the foot didn't come into play until a short time later. You don't need to tell the shredder arc over again, unless that is the story you really wish to tell.

And I disagree- the general public isn't big on origin retreads, either. Amazing Spider-man wasn't as well-received do to being an origin retread, and Star Trek was retelling an early part of the TOS crew's lives that had NEVER been seen on film before EVER-in other words, a new story. Also, the part with old Spock and the Kelvin timeline made it a continuation instead of a reboot. Also, the spider and bat movies coming up are starting fresh- in universes we never got to see the origins and backstories of. The heroes are already in the middle of their careers.

When I was talking with my friends about the TMNT movies (and these guys and gals are casual fans, mind you- they hate how much I bring it up.) All of them hate they bay films because they are bad, and want to see a non- Bay movie if there is another TMNT flick. ALL of them were against the idea of an origin movie, mostly because they all thought nothing could top the 1990 one, and were turned off to the TMNT's origin by the mess that was the 2014 film. All but one hated amazing spider-man (which, though it was an origin retread, gave it a new spin with a new villain.) and only two liked the new star trek. I now at least a dozen people or so who won't see the next TMNT film if it's an origin story, no matter how good it looks. (they made the same promise about any other origin reboots Hollywood might spit out.)

[myconius]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nope, that might anger the Chineese.

HA! i hadn't considered that!