New Ep Discussion: 4-14: Ancient One

[Jester]

Can I say that Leo is acting Raphie-esque now? Raph said it....The Yeti guys said one who fights with anger is doomed to lose. That's very Raphie-esque. I like the observation that Raph is mimicing Leo's responce to him nearly clobering Mikey in "Meet Casey Jones,"gotta love those kinda throw backs.
I agree that Hamato Yoshi needs an episode all his own...maybe Leo upon his return and Splinter can tell his story....maybe the Orb that the Utroms gave Sensi can come in...and maybe the Daymio. Yoshi is the unsung hero of the TMNT universe.
Oh yeash one last note....FART JOKES!!! COME ON!!!
EDIT: Anyone else think Yoda and Luke when we see a Leo who underestimates the Ancient One and followed him to....well.....himself

[Fledermaus]

Oh man. Loved that episode. Loved the acting, especially.

As for the farting, it was still necessary. Think about it, Leo all this time has been feeling (as those giants kept telling him)... like a baby. Not like an adult. Not dignified. Farting sage... I think it helped underscore the fact that to accept our failures, we have to stop being afraid of looking dumb--in Leo's case, he had to face something that he looked upon as disgusting and unacceptable.

And the art... *drools* did you see those landscapes? And the visual pacing and storytelling, the way we first see the sewer and only hear the voices, and SEE the reactions of the brothers--they didn't overdo the dialogue, which was great! The way we SEE Leo react to all those derisive comments from the giants, calling him a baby--OOH, that HAD to get under his shell.

Yes, very high quality. Leo had to end up hurting a loved one, only then was he forced to look at himself and what he'd become. Sad, but that is sometimes the only thing that will slap us in the face.

Now, I agree with what Benvenuto was saying earlier about how just because Leo knows what he's been doing wrong, DOES NOT IN ANY WAY MEAN he will change easily. Lord knows it sure as shell wasn't easy for me to change. The only advantage Leo has now is that he has looked the monster in the eye. He's been acting this way for so long it has become a habit, a dark part of him. The struggle will be an everyday struggle, perhaps for the rest of his life.

But he is wiser, now. That's what counts.

Anyways, fewer words. My brother looked at me strangely when the Ancient one said that to Leo. KISS. So I'll refrain from essays and analyzing... and just enjoy this wonderful show. Wonderful show...

EDIT: Yeah, Jester. The ancient one WAS Yoda. Before you say, oh damn fart jokes=bad, clear your mind of stereotypes and watch. They weren't primarily there to be funny. In fact, they were never funny. Just disgusting and, well, exasperating. I felt disgusted and exasperated, and you could tell by Leo's acting that he was disgusted and exasperated too. Just like when a lot of us got pissed when Leo exploded on his brothers in Dragon's Rising, remember the strong possibility that the writers are trying to make us viewers feel what the characters are feeling. As far as the art of storytelling goes, I think they did a SUPERB job. They just keep getting better. I'm going to have to stop having favorite eps because now I don't think I have any.

[iris]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

he takes a ship.

Thanks man.

Originally Posted by syk_skillz

I was like damn when leo sliced Splinter.

Leo did WHAT?!? *grumbles*

Originally Posted by Katie

I thought it was very interesting to see Leonardo's memories. It wasn't how it happened, but in the classic "man against himself" scenerio, distoretd memories fuel the fires.

Looked a little like scenes from a nightmare. Wouldn't be surprised if Leo's been having them... no wonder he's been such a grouch!

Originally Posted by TerranigmaFreak

Am I *faaaaaaaaaarrrrt* the only guy here more annoyed with the whole Empire Strikes Back rip-off than the fart jokes?

I didn't even notice it. Yoda rocks. If this was a Star Wars rip-off, George Lucas should be proud. Sorry it spoiled the ep for you.

Really I think Leo was the only one actually in the dark here. I pretty much figured out the rock monster represnted Leo... it even looked and moved like Leo....

Originally Posted by Benvenuto

Don't hold your breath for Leonardo to RIGHT AWAY return to his usual self. As one can learn a new lesson, he can easily forget it. It's gonna take time.

I'd be disappointed if he just reverted to his old self. He's gone through too much to get to this point. He sure looked relieved when he finally had his lil' moment of clarity. "Took you long enough, Leonardo!"

And no, Ben, I don't think I'd want to go back to being my past self. Hitting reset means you have to play again from the beginning, and that's friggin' annoying!

Originally Posted by Rikirk

Anyone else think that Leo's Bounty Hunter outfit was damn cool...

Me! Too bad it will probably go away now that he's hunted down his "own worst enemy". :p Shades of Catcher in the Rye, man. Remember the reversed hunting cap Holden wore?

The dressing down Leo got from the yeti sentries was a riot, and well-deserved on Leo's part. He was acting like a baby... if babies carried swords and had lethal ninja skillz. Best shot of the whole ep (at least the part I saw) was when Leo's first attack on the sentries landed him upside down in the snow. For once, I was totally cheering for Leo's opponent to smack him down. It was almost divine retribution...

[XERO]

Originally Posted by iris

And no, Ben, I don't think I'd want to go back to being my past self. Hitting reset means you have to play again from the beginning, and that's friggin' annoying!

Classic and true.

[cowabunga14]

Originally Posted by tOkKa

-->> ..ok here is my note to Playmates Toys i am passing around.. ::

Dear Playmates Toys ..
I don't live in hong Kong.. please make an Ancient One action Figure that you squeeze and it farts and teaches Leonardo Lessons cuz he is my favourite. Amen..



..ok..so whatcha think ?! ..it's only air..

..please sign my petition ..

Ha ha ha. That's really funny, Tokka. Hopefully that petition thing'll work out. Anyways onto the review.

This episode was pretty good for a Leo-centered one. That Ancient One dude reminded me of Yoda with a little bit of David Lo Pan thrown in from Big Trouble in Little China. I liked the action and I felt the actin' was great. Those ghost demons were intrestin'. I never knew Leo would wuss out, but I guess if he doesn't fail then he won't learn. I've never seen him so angry at Splinter before so that's a first. He's startin' to remind me of Raph. I felt the fartin' jokes were overused, but other than that...great episode. I give this episode a five out of five.

It really sucks that next week's episode is a rerun. It makes me wonder what episode'll air on Christmas Eve. Will it be another Christmas one? Only time will tell. BTW, did anyone see that Turtles commerical around 10:09 AM when Bratz was on? I had the channel on Fox before I went to bed last night. Then when I turned on the TV this morning, the commerical was after somethin' else. I watched it and changed the channel. The commerical basically had Mikey on a hoverboard botherin' his brothers. Leo, Don, and Raph were chasin' him at the end. Anyone got screen caps of it?

[blue_angel99]

I love Leo centered episodes. He has always been my favorite. It is about time he got more attention. Anyway,This was definately the grossest ep...yet very funny. I couldn't believe it when Leo cut Splinter. Did Splinter let him do on purpose? Leo going to Japan was bound to happen sooner or later. I wish traveling was as easy as they make it on cartoons. The battle with the Yeti's was great. Leo needed some humbling. Poopie face! It's funny that when a wise old teacher acts the total oppsite of what they should be. At least he wasn't a pervert like Master Roshi. I can never get tired of fart jokes. He even farted on Leo!!
Leo admitting surrender to the ghosts was another great way to humble himself. I agreed when ancient fart said that if your survive, you haven't truly failed. To paraphrase the Good Book " A just man falleth seven times,yet rises up again." As long as you don't get discouraged by failures, you'll make it.Leo needs to realize this. His greatest fault is his pride. I was so happy when he finally acknowledged that he did the best he could for his family and that he doesn't have to be perfect. I always tell my students that I only expect them to do the best they could. If a "C'" is the best you do then I am pleased. Leo is finally going to be his good hearted self again but now a little more wiser!

[iris]

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

And the visual pacing and storytelling, the way we first see the sewer and only hear the voices, and SEE the reactions of the brothers--they didn't overdo the dialogue, which was great!

Oooo I love stuff like that. *hands Fled a napkin* (ya got a little dribble...)

The dialogue was fantastic. And the visual acting, and the vocal acting. Just a tiny example was Leo's uncertain posture and the stunned voice when he had to describe his meagre travel food to the Windy One. That scene could have been just a throwaway, but it was very impressive. To say nothing of the acting during more intense scenes, such as the expression he wore when he surrendered to the demon spirits.

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

... So I'll refrain from essays and analyzing...

The effort I am making not to laugh is most valiant.

True, though. Life is short; fewer words count.

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Before you say, oh damn fart jokes=bad, clear your mind of stereotypes and watch. They weren't primarily there to be funny. In fact, they were never funny. Just disgusting and, well, exasperating. I felt disgusted and exasperated, and you could tell by Leo's acting that he was disgusted and exasperated too. Just like when a lot of us got pissed when Leo exploded on his brothers in Dragon's Rising, remember the strong possibility that the writers are trying to make us viewers feel what the characters are feeling.

My sentiments exactly. And the flatulence actually served to bring my sympathies back to Leo. Poor dude was confused.

[Masked Ninja]

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.



This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

[Jester]

Nice MN....who would wanna bap you for that...

[iris]

Jester is right! Very cool. It would take me a year to draw something like that.

Man, Leo must have had a heck of a lot of time to dwell over that moment.

I am doing some research on addiction recovery online, and just now I ran across a verse that some people use as a therapy. It seems appropriate to Leo's situation, especially now that he's had this personal revelation.

God, grant me the serenity
To accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Odd to think that a recovering drug addict and a recovering angry ninja have things in common. Hmm... upon a tiny bit more research, I have found that this verse, or a variation, is also called "the General's prayer" and dates back centuries. The USO distributed it to the troops during WWII. (The more I read the stranger it gets.) Heh... Leo, maybe you could have gone down the street instead of all the way to Japan...

[somebody]

i was right..they were yetis...

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Great episode, but I think it could've standed to lose some of the fart jokes.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.



This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

How could this happen to me?

Give Leo a Myspace already

[Masked Ninja]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Give Leo a Myspace already

Heehee, seriously.

[Leonardo Mystic]

I am very pleased with this episode, and I'm going to want screen caps of the entire show once it hits DVD. I have awaited eagerly to see such half a season. It could have used a little less "wind", but the expressions on Leonardo's face was pricelessly funny, so it was okay.

The intro leading in and the beginning was intense. Leo used such harsh words in both, but it was when he was sparring with Splinter that truly frightened me. I could have never imagined Leo would harm his father, but I'd predicted it would take hurting a family member by his own hand to shock him to senses. I just wasn't expecting Splinter, but it makes perfectly logical sense. Leo is the closest to him out of his family. The sheer level of remorse and guilt Leo felt afterwards was overpowering. I nearly cried, especially later when he was talking with Splinter in his room, and I saw tears in Leo's eyes. He knew he had done something unforgiveable in his eyes, and his face and manner reflected it.

Moving along to the trip, when Leo arrived in Japan, I was amazed by the portrait that was created. The scenery was absolutely gorgeous. The amount of texture and coloring used reminded me of Usagi's world; so vivid. The music used was composed brilliantly, and added even more life. In short, I loved it.

The scene with the two Yeti brothers was funny, albeit somewhat immature with the "poopy-head" and "baby" remarks. However, perhaps the baby references held some truth to them. Leo was being childishly stubborn in his pride. Heh, he obviously couldn't handle being teased too well, but neither do I, so I can't say I really blame him.

Despite all his breaking wind, I found the Ancient One oddly endearing. He was a wily old coot. Leonardo learned a lot from him, and it's true in the saying you can't judge a book by its cover. *giggles* I don't know why the A.O. kept calling Leo "Monkey Turtle", but it was cute.

It was interesting to watch the Exodus battle from Leo's POV. There is so much pressure put on the man, and he feels he has to succeeded or else. I was so proud of him when he admitted defeat in the battle with the Demons, and then fighting the stone version of himself he realized he did the best he could and there was nothing more he could have done. I knew he could do it, but the first step is always the hardest. I am so happy to see now he is on his way to recovery. He'll never be the same way he was before, and that would be stupid as the revelation would be all for naught then, but he's going to be better and wiser now.

Congrats, Leonardo. Welcome back. *huggles plushie*

[Ecto Jedi]

Judging solely by the intro, I didn't think I was going to like this week's episode very much...Basically, I'm a little put-off anytime the writers find the need to concentrate on one character only and create a story just for one episode that doesn't fit into the ongoing story arc...I'm happy to say I was pleasantly surprised!

"The Ancient One" fit perfectly into the story arc after all, despite having no Bishop or any villains. I didn't really mind all the fart jokes and I immensely enjoyed the references to "The Empire Strikes Back," from the ancient one masquerading as a simple bystander to Leo fighting "himself" during one of the tests. Very cool.

[Fledermaus]

Originally Posted by Masked Ninja

OK, you can shoot me if you like, but I got inspired.



This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

Yeah, shoot you out of fanatic admiration. That's beautiful, Masked Ninja. All that today? Wow.

Hm. They didn't even do so much as show Splinter's fur flying from the cut.

OR, what would have been just as powerful, and was often employed in old movies... don't even show the resulting disgusting wound of the stab/slash/gunshot. They could have just had Master Splinter stumble back, we the audience just see the horrified reactions--we see how Leo reacts when HE sees what we CANNOT see. Splinter is obscured in the dim light, we only see him pressing his paw/hand to his forehead, never removing it. Kind of like how they never actually showed Leatherhead ripping Bishop's minions to shreds. Sometimes not showing the horror is far more disturbing than actually showing it. Like in John Ford's The Searchers when the family gets raped and scalped and all sorts of lovely stuff by Scar and his warriors. Ethan (John Wayne's character) searches the house, comes to a dark doorway, we see his black sillhouette stop and freeze as we know he gazes on some unseen horror. He then crumples, his head slumped. Terrible. We know what happened. We saw no gore, yet felt just as horrified as we would have (maybe even more), had we seen what Ethan saw.

But we still got to see the reactions of everyone in the scene following Splinter's cut, which was important.

Ah, and just forgot to mention. did anyone else notice the complex background sound at the wharf? They did a good job at making the place seem "inhabited", adding well to the dimension of the setting.

[longing for leo]

This would be Leo on the ship, agonizing over what he'd done. And Splinter gets the blood he deserved in this ep.

I swear Masked Ninja, your stuff is always AMAZING! But, Raph was more worried/shocked than mad, wasn't he? That's how I remember it, at least. I loved their expressions in this one, especially the 3 boys listening at the door. They looked so worried for Leo. I almost choked up. & the nightmare/flashback to exodus scene. It was so hard to see them begging in fear/pain. Even Raph...I think his disturbed me the most, actually. He's the one who would have to be dragged away to do a tactical retriet in earlier seasons.

Um, how did Leo get from New York to Japan on a boat? Meh, whatever. That did go pretty fast though. I was really disapointed that we didn't get to see them say goodbye. Surely Leo's bros would've had something to say about it, if only something like "come back to us Fearless, we still need ya." or something.

I can see a really good opportunity for a Karai/Leo situation from this. Leo's left his family undefended/alone for over a month (we assume). Karai wants to hurt Leo. What's the best way to hurt Leo? Hurt his family. I'm just saying, she's got the mystics who found the lair (again, assuming they found it in Bad Day). I wouldn't be surprised to see Leo come back to an empty lair. Then he'd have to go rescue his family and fight Karai...not with a heart full of fear & hate...but full of love for his family (as the Yeties & the Ancient One advised). Actually, I'm going to be somewhat disappointed if they don't do something like this. But I suppose the Karai/Hun relationship (not romantic! ) will have to be developed more before we get some kind of confrontation.

[Aska_Badoura]

Man... I've been working all day getting the house ready for a Christmas party... didn't get to see the ep till now (2 am-ish... )

HE SNAPPED OUT OF IT!!! *jumps around all ecstatic-like* I'm sooooooooooooo relieved!

Well, I'm not saying it was all instant-*poof*-like, or anything, but it's a really good start. Hee, that relieved smile he had on his face after realizing what was wrong was a nice touch. Maybe a bit over-stated, but they wanted to make sure we knew a burden had been lifted, or at least identified.

It all reminded me very much of "Star Wars", but so much of "Star Wars" is archetype and legend sort of stuff, that I can expect to find it in other good stories, too. (What is it with wise old teachers testing prospective students by trying to annoy them to death first? :p)

I thought it was very interesting to see Leonardo's memories. It wasn't how it happened, but in the classic "man against himself" scenerio, distoretd memories fuel the fires.

I don't think he necessarily remembered it that way, but the temple/the creature/the Ancient One (whomever it was that manifested the visions) mirrored his guilty feelings back to him, in a way that he could see just how silly they were. They took the actual events and twisted them around to match what Leo was blaming himself for. Which made Leo say "Wait a minute... that's not how it happened!"

Okay, somebody send Karai to this guy next, and I'll be a happy little fan.

Anyways, fewer words. My brother looked at me strangely when the Ancient one said that to Leo.

LOL, I thought of myself too. I always use way too many words to say something simple, and over-analyze everything to death. I'd deserve a bop on the head too... :p

[Masked Ninja]

Originally Posted by longing for leo

I swear Masked Ninja, your stuff is always AMAZING! But, Raph was more worried/shocked than mad, wasn't he? That's how I remember it, at least.

I don't doubt you remember right . I was imagining Raph's look of disbelief to take on a mildly angry tone naturally (with him narrowing his eyes) but I think I might have pushed it too far. As it was, I sketched that face a couple times before getting there, and got impatient. Heh.

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Hm. They didn't even do so much as show Splinter's fur flying from the cut.

OR, what would have been just as powerful, and was often employed in old movies... don't even show the resulting disgusting wound of the stab/slash/gunshot. They could have just had Master Splinter stumble back, we the audience just see the horrified reactions--we see how Leo reacts when HE sees we we CANNOT see. Splinter is obscured in the dim light, we only see him pressing his paw/hand to his forehead, never removing it. Kind of like how they never actually showed Leatherhead ripping Bishop's minions to shreds. Sometimes not showing the horror is far more disturbing than actually showing it. Like in John Ford's The Searchers when the family gets raped and scalped and all sorts of lovely stuff by Scar and his warriors. Ethan (John Wayne's character) searches the house, comes to a dark doorway, we see his black sillhouette stop and freeze as we know he gazes on some unseen horror. He then crumples, his head slumped. Terrible. We know what happened. We saw no gore, yet felt just as horrified as we would have (maybe even more), had we seen what Ethan saw.

But we still got to see the reactions of everyone in the scene following Splinter's cut, which was important.

Too true. Especially after Exodus (they showed Mikey's leg break, for cryin' out loud!) I'd expect them to get as close as they could. Maybe with blades it's a bit different as far as the rules are concerned. That scene you set up, though.... avoiding showing Splinter at all except in silohuette... that would definitely have worked. Very well, even. Makes my fingers itch to try it out in comic form, but alas... it's nearly 2am, I gotta go to bed, and I don't have another hour and a half to fiddle around in Photoshop like before

Originally Posted by Aska_Badoura

I don't think he necessarily remembered it that way, but the temple/the creature/the Ancient One (whomever it was that manifested the visions) mirrored his guilty feelings back to him, in a way that he could see just how silly they were. They took the actual events and twisted them around to match what Leo was blaming himself for. Which made Leo say "Wait a minute... that's not how it happened!"

That also makes sense. You could interpret Leo's frantic "I did what I could!" both ways: 1) That's actually how he remembered it and he's finally breaking down and saying what's been eating him, or 2) It's been twisted on him and he's protesting their cries for help, which he may deem indirect accusations.

Hoo boy, gotta stop now. Bed for me.