PEACE or WAR - Page 3

*heretic888* · 03-12-2003, 03:05 PM

Quote:

That's one example of our great goverment and it's "foreign polcies" they have their own pacific agenda. We are merely pawns my friend. Now I know you going to come back with some "Those aren't facts" or some sarcastic remark like how I don't work for the US Goverment or how these facts aren't valid and so on and so on. You can keep making excuses to yourself, I've lost interest. Thanks bye.

Actually, that wasn't a 'fact' at all. That was one man's very biased account of discussions he had had with 'nameless individuals'. He brings up numbers, but doesn't support them with primary sources.

Why is this important, you say?? Well, anyone can make up statistics or numbers on the spot. Example: 90% of all Americans are Communists. I just made that up. No primary resource. No support. But if I have political influence, and write a book, then someone out there is gonna actually believe that erroneous statistic. No, what happened with the individual quoted here obviously isn't as ridiculous as the fake statistic I made up, but the fact that he fails to cite a single primary resource piques the observer's curiosity, no??

To tell you the truth, that whole passage struck me as little more than extreme liberal rhetoric with no empirical support whatsoever. I remain unimpressed.

*Voltron* · 03-12-2003, 03:32 PM

Hussein is mentally unstable. He has tortured and killed millions of his own people. He is demanding scientist build him nuclear weapons. He is not so strong now, but if we do not kill him, YES KILL THE BASTARD, we run the great risk of him building a nuclear weapon, and holding the entire middle east hostage.

To people who think that this war is sensless, youre idiots plain and simple. By protesting this war you are protesting the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who are starving under this egotistical maniac, let alone the rest of the middle east. That's why we have to stop this mad man. Because he is nuts. This inane war as you call it may very well liberate a nation.

Another reason we must attack Iraq is because we've been attacked ourselves. We have to show the Middle Eastern nations that we will no longer tolerate any of there ass crap. We must strike them hard, and leave a lasting impression. My tax dollars pay for the bombs, I want to see them dropped.

If you want peace, the only ways we can get it is through all out "war" with Iraq, or by creating an alternative energy source that makes oil obselete. So to summarize

1) Iraq War isn't sensless, Saddam has private holocaust party going on over there

2) America hating hippies should be deported to Iraq, France, or North Korea. See how they like it there

3) Saddam is a psychopath

4) America kicks more ass than anything ever. God/Goddess/Buddah/Allah/Vishnu bless the US

*Deathknight* · 03-12-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reznorite420

Not only is Deathknight ignorant about how the military works, he's also ignorant with economics!

If there is a war, it will no doubt create a lot of vacancies in the job market, thereby giving people an easier chance of finding work. Look how WW2 got us out of the depression!

And besides, I'm not going to be drafted first if it ever comes to that. They start with the 21-year-olds first. They're definitely NOT sending the inexperienced ones out to fight; the purpose of the draft is mainly to find people to fill in slots where the active-duty personnel are now gone from just in case there aren't enough reservists (sp) in the country for them.

I never said I believed that it wouldn't help the economy. It probably would be good for the economy. I had also thought that they wouldn't send me over with my conditions but my parents are telling me that I am a body and can use a gun and that's all that's important which would qualify me to be sent over. I really don't want this war and I don't think it's necessary regardless.

*That Matt Guy* · 03-12-2003, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathknight

I had also thought that they wouldn't send me over with my conditions but my parents are telling me that I am a body and can use a gun and that's all that's important which would qualify me to be sent over. I really don't want this war and I don't think it's necessary regardless.

No offense, but your parents don't know what they are talking about. Deathknight, read this:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/us-draft.htm

Donatello02 · 03-12-2003, 07:52 PM

To Heretic. I knew you would come back with some fault or excuse to make yourself feel better. Fine, great. Facts are facts, you can believe them or deny them. I'm done.

As for Voltron, you seem like an intelligent and funny person, and I respect that, but you must remember, our goverment's foreign policies aren't that to better the nation, or to better humanity. Of course not, they have their own agenda, be it for money, power, or something greater that they can use to their disposal. You say Saddamn kills many innocent civilians, yet if this war were to happen, we would be doing that very same thing you believe is wrong. More innocents lost. More lives gone. Our goverment could care less about loss of innocent life, as long as it's for the better of our "national security" then everything is fine and dandy. Those peoples lives mean nothing to our goverment. Heck, even out troops, OUR OWN SOLDIERS, the goverment could care less about them. As long as they do what they are told, fight the good fight and kill all that stand in opposition of the US, then it's all good. Our nations cares nothing about other countries and their human loss be it at war or due to tyrranical rule or mistreatment. Look at North Korea. Bush should be taking his time and effort to make better policies with them instead. But no, he won't, not for now. Why? Because North Korea, even though more of an open threat, better assets, and a stable economy with one of the great military forces in the world, is not on top of the very precious oil that Bush has his eyes on. "War on Terrorism" and "Secure our Nations security" are nothing more then an excuse to keep the US to agree with our goverment. Is Iraq REALLY a threat? What happened to Al Qaeida? What happened to the REAL war on terrorism? Simply put, it went up and ran. Now, with nothing else to put forth effort and policies, what better then a nearby Muslim country which has had a history with the US, AND has the very thing needed for our economy and is in short supply of. Honestly, 12 years Saddam has had to attack America, even after 9-11 when our country was at its weakest state. But did they? Of course not. When it all comes down to it, our goverment and it's foriegn policies are nothing more then hypocrisy. They have their own agenda, be it to fight terrorism for freedom or to take out "rogue states" in order to stay in it's dominant possition. All great empires are the same. A great man once said though...Todays empires are tomorrows ashes. Payce.

Shadow · 03-12-2003, 07:53 PM

Quote:

4) America kicks more ass than anything ever. God/Goddess/Buddah/Allah/Vishnu bless the US

Funnies thing i have heard in a LONG time.

Donatello02 · 03-12-2003, 07:58 PM

Oh and by the way...if the so called "anti-american hippies" were deported to Iraq, France, and North Korea...I don't see a problem. If they go to Iraq, they have a chance to change things that needed to be the right way instead of careless discarding of lives. If they were sent to France..mmm, breads, cheeses, amazing food, and champagne. Oh and the scenery and the woman...what's wrong with France? And for North Korea. Lemme tell you, I'm Korean, my parents hail from South Korea, and North Korea is probably one of the better (IF ANY) communist country. Plus, great food again. Good food indeed.

One Radical Dude · 03-12-2003, 08:03 PM

He's a Warmonger...

Interesting ad that I was showed to yesterday.

*Voltron* · 03-12-2003, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donatello02

Oh and by the way...if the so called "anti-american hippies" were deported to Iraq, France, and North Korea...I don't see a problem. If they go to Iraq, they have a chance to change things that needed to be the right way instead of careless discarding of lives. If they were sent to France..mmm, breads, cheeses, amazing food, and champagne. Oh and the scenery and the woman...what's wrong with France? And for North Korea. Lemme tell you, I'm Korean, my parents hail from South Korea, and North Korea is probably one of the better (IF ANY) communist country. Plus, great food again. Good food indeed.

Why France should be sunk into the sea....

1- France refuses to take action against Iraq because Iraq is giving them a deal on oil (same with Germany and Russia, both spineless bastards in this matter).

2- The French have no class at all. They have an annoying language, the women and men smell HORRIBLE. They are Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys. France was responsible for our involvment in Vietnam, they backed out and asked us to fight for them.

3- The French don't have fine food. They eat frogs and snails. Cheese? Everyone has cheese. I perfer Swiss Cheese.

4- The French are ungrateful! Millions of American graves lie on a Normandy beach in France. France pays them no repect, I'm sure. The low life bastards are no allies of America.

So go live there among the French people! Hippies aren't welcome because the French hate Americans, its a fact.

Why we should go to war with Iraq-

I already stated this. Go live there in poverty, you won't fix anything in a dictatorship such as Iraq. And don't think you'll even have the luxury of free speech to stand against Hussein. So go over and change the world. All are invited.

Why North Korea sucks ass-

Sir, if you have blood lines from South Korea I suggest you do some research before you hail your Northern "Brothers". Truth be told the North Korean 2 million man army sits 30 yards away from the poorly equipped and trained South Korean army.

North Korea has nuclear capabilities and is at the moment black mailing the US to open up trade with them. There are no good communist states in the world, kind sir, because they are all corrupt and twisted. Rest assured that each one of those North Korean friends of yours is just dying to unload on your family and nuke your mother land.

So let's recap

France!

Sucks because they are opposed to wars they cannot win. Which of course means any. They are rude and hate Americans.
Live here if you want to be looked down upon and bumped into constantly along with being mercilessly ridiculed for being American.

Iraq!

You love it so much move there and make the world a better place. Speak out against tyranny or what ever it is you think is wrong and then scratch your head in confusion when your shot in the knees and tortured for months on end.

North Korea!

Go ahead and immerse yourself in your home land! And some radioactive fall out as well when the "Great Communist North Koreans" nuke the hell out of South Korea and other countries in South East Asia.

The Choice is yours, for me its good ol' America. Where I can flip off my own president and know that I had every right to. Any hippie who hates freedom, please move.

One Radical Dude · 03-12-2003, 08:49 PM

Ugh...maybe, I shouldn't have said anything.

*Voltron* · 03-12-2003, 09:08 PM

I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm just trying to get through to some people out there who haven't gotten it through there heads. I know they have an argument against war, but petty reasons like "Bush wants votes" or "I have heritage from there" doesn't mean can't go to war to protect US interests.

There probably are good reasons not to go to war. But as of yet I haven't heard any of them.

**Machias Banshee** · 03-12-2003, 09:22 PM

Hey, sorry for going a bit off-topic, BUT....

Has Anyone here seen the thing on the news about "French" foods being changed to "freedom" foods?

i.e., french/freedom toast, french/freedom fries, french/freedom vanilla,

frnech/freedom poodle, kiss, etc?

How Immature is this?! I'm ready to see some sort of national referendum with us saying, " france is a big stupid head" or something...!

I would love to hear views on this....

One Radical Dude · 03-12-2003, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Hey, sorry for going a bit off-topic, BUT....

Has Anyone here seen the thing on the news about "French" foods being changed to "freedom" foods?

i.e., french/freedom toast, french/freedom fries, french/freedom vanilla,

frnech/freedom poodle, kiss, etc?

How Immature is this?! I'm ready to see some sort of national referendum with us saying, " france is a big stupid head" or something...!

I would love to hear views on this....

I believe that was only for one restaurant. I think its both dumb and amusing.

This isn't the first time that the names of foods were changed. I was told by someone that it happened during WWII, as well.

**Machias Banshee** · 03-12-2003, 09:55 PM

Its slowly spreading out from capitol hill, and slowly gonna make its way to the rest of the US...its so immature...

*proud to be a French-Canadian-American*

**Kali** · 03-12-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Has Anyone here seen the thing on the news about "French" foods being changed to "freedom" foods?

Hey, my mom was just talking about this today. I can't remember exactly what she said, though. I know one resturant had changed the name. My first thought was "They're doing a theme thing, right?" But no...

But then again, we're talking about a species that gives out Darwin Awards, so how much can we really expect?

**Machias Banshee** · 03-12-2003, 10:06 PM

My Gahd, its happening already?! Oh the horror!!!

*That Matt Guy* · 03-12-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Radical Dude

This isn't the first time that the names of foods were changed. I was told by someone that it happened during WWII, as well.

Yup. They also did it in WWI.

One Radical Dude · 03-12-2003, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machias Banshee

Its slowly spreading out from capitol hill, and slowly gonna make its way to the rest of the US...its so immature...

It is immature, but you have to blame France for that. If it weren't for their government's current stance on Iraq, the name changes wouldn't take place. I doubt it'll spread everywhere. If it does, I don't think it'll be a permanent thing.

*heretic888* · 03-13-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

To Heretic. I knew you would come back with some fault or excuse to make yourself feel better. Fine, great. Facts are facts, you can believe them or deny them. I'm done.

No, Don, its very simply that you failed to cite a single primary source for even one of your 'facts'. Come to think of it, you didn't even cite a secondary or tertiary source either. That is, unless you count yourself as a 'source'.

Anyone can just make up statistics on the spot. In fact, most 'statistics' when used in everyday conversation ARE made up on the spot. You have given any of us no indication that that is not what you have done right now.

Tell me, when a 'fact' is not supported by external evidence, why call it a 'fact' at all???

Quote:

As for Voltron, you seem like an intelligent and funny person, and I respect that, but you must remember, our goverment's foreign policies aren't that to better the nation, or to better humanity. Of course not, they have their own agenda, be it for money, power, or something greater that they can use to their disposal. You say Saddamn kills many innocent civilians, yet if this war were to happen, we would be doing that very same thing you believe is wrong. More innocents lost. More lives gone. Our goverment could care less about loss of innocent life, as long as it's for the better of our "national security" then everything is fine and dandy. Those peoples lives mean nothing to our goverment. Heck, even out troops, OUR OWN SOLDIERS, the goverment could care less about them. As long as they do what they are told, fight the good fight and kill all that stand in opposition of the US, then it's all good. Our nations cares nothing about other countries and their human loss be it at war or due to tyrranical rule or mistreatment. Look at North Korea. Bush should be taking his time and effort to make better policies with them instead. But no, he won't, not for now. Why? Because North Korea, even though more of an open threat, better assets, and a stable economy with one of the great military forces in the world, is not on top of the very precious oil that Bush has his eyes on. "War on Terrorism" and "Secure our Nations security" are nothing more then an excuse to keep the US to agree with our goverment. Is Iraq REALLY a threat? What happened to Al Qaeida? What happened to the REAL war on terrorism? Simply put, it went up and ran. Now, with nothing else to put forth effort and policies, what better then a nearby Muslim country which has had a history with the US, AND has the very thing needed for our economy and is in short supply of. Honestly, 12 years Saddam has had to attack America, even after 9-11 when our country was at its weakest state. But did they? Of course not. When it all comes down to it, our goverment and it's foriegn policies are nothing more then hypocrisy. They have their own agenda, be it to fight terrorism for freedom or to take out "rogue states" in order to stay in it's dominant possition. All great empires are the same. A great man once said though...Todays empires are tomorrows ashes. Payce.

Again, you have given us nothing but your own thoughts and opinions on the subject. There is not a single external source cited there. I see no 'facts', only YOUR words. And you hardly qualify as a primary or even secondary political resource.

*heretic888* · 03-13-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Oh and by the way...if the so called "anti-american hippies" were deported to Iraq, France, and North Korea...I don't see a problem.

The only one of those three countries which you would even be able to tolerate living in is France.

Quote:

they go to Iraq, they have a chance to change things that needed to be the right way instead of careless discarding of lives.

More than likely you would be imprisoned or put to death.

Quote:

If they were sent to France..mmm, breads, cheeses, amazing food, and champagne. Oh and the scenery and the woman...what's wrong with France?

Well, if you're Korean like you say, you may want to watch out for the neo-nazi contingent in France, which has a greater following there than anywhere else in the world.

Quote:

And for North Korea. Lemme tell you, I'm Korean, my parents hail from South Korea, and North Korea is probably one of the better (IF ANY) communist country.

Again, if you engaged in any 'political activism' there you would be aptly imprisoned, exiled, or put to death.

By the way, saying a place is 'one of the best communist countries' isn't exactly that much of a compliment.

03-12-2003, 03:32 PM	#42
Voltron Handsomest Boy in School Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Realm of SJW Posts: 4,642	Hell yes I will go! Hussein is mentally unstable. He has tortured and killed millions of his own people. He is demanding scientist build him nuclear weapons. He is not so strong now, but if we do not kill him, YES KILL THE BASTARD, we run the great risk of him building a nuclear weapon, and holding the entire middle east hostage. To people who think that this war is sensless, youre idiots plain and simple. By protesting this war you are protesting the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who are starving under this egotistical maniac, let alone the rest of the middle east. That's why we have to stop this mad man. Because he is nuts. This inane war as you call it may very well liberate a nation. Another reason we must attack Iraq is because we've been attacked ourselves. We have to show the Middle Eastern nations that we will no longer tolerate any of there ass crap. We must strike them hard, and leave a lasting impression. My tax dollars pay for the bombs, I want to see them dropped. If you want peace, the only ways we can get it is through all out "war" with Iraq, or by creating an alternative energy source that makes oil obselete. So to summarize 1) Iraq War isn't sensless, Saddam has private holocaust party going on over there 2) America hating hippies should be deported to Iraq, France, or North Korea. See how they like it there 3) Saddam is a psychopath 4) America kicks more ass than anything ever. God/Goddess/Buddah/Allah/Vishnu bless the US

03-12-2003, 07:52 PM	#45
Donatello02 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 503	To Heretic. I knew you would come back with some fault or excuse to make yourself feel better. Fine, great. Facts are facts, you can believe them or deny them. I'm done. As for Voltron, you seem like an intelligent and funny person, and I respect that, but you must remember, our goverment's foreign policies aren't that to better the nation, or to better humanity. Of course not, they have their own agenda, be it for money, power, or something greater that they can use to their disposal. You say Saddamn kills many innocent civilians, yet if this war were to happen, we would be doing that very same thing you believe is wrong. More innocents lost. More lives gone. Our goverment could care less about loss of innocent life, as long as it's for the better of our "national security" then everything is fine and dandy. Those peoples lives mean nothing to our goverment. Heck, even out troops, OUR OWN SOLDIERS, the goverment could care less about them. As long as they do what they are told, fight the good fight and kill all that stand in opposition of the US, then it's all good. Our nations cares nothing about other countries and their human loss be it at war or due to tyrranical rule or mistreatment. Look at North Korea. Bush should be taking his time and effort to make better policies with them instead. But no, he won't, not for now. Why? Because North Korea, even though more of an open threat, better assets, and a stable economy with one of the great military forces in the world, is not on top of the very precious oil that Bush has his eyes on. "War on Terrorism" and "Secure our Nations security" are nothing more then an excuse to keep the US to agree with our goverment. Is Iraq REALLY a threat? What happened to Al Qaeida? What happened to the REAL war on terrorism? Simply put, it went up and ran. Now, with nothing else to put forth effort and policies, what better then a nearby Muslim country which has had a history with the US, AND has the very thing needed for our economy and is in short supply of. Honestly, 12 years Saddam has had to attack America, even after 9-11 when our country was at its weakest state. But did they? Of course not. When it all comes down to it, our goverment and it's foriegn policies are nothing more then hypocrisy. They have their own agenda, be it to fight terrorism for freedom or to take out "rogue states" in order to stay in it's dominant possition. All great empires are the same. A great man once said though...Todays empires are tomorrows ashes. Payce. __________________ 'What ninja weapon did Don get? A stickball bat. Hey, you can call it a 'bo'. But you can call it a Ford Tempo too...it's still just a stick.'

03-12-2003, 07:58 PM	#47
Donatello02 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 503	Oh and by the way...if the so called "anti-american hippies" were deported to Iraq, France, and North Korea...I don't see a problem. If they go to Iraq, they have a chance to change things that needed to be the right way instead of careless discarding of lives. If they were sent to France..mmm, breads, cheeses, amazing food, and champagne. Oh and the scenery and the woman...what's wrong with France? And for North Korea. Lemme tell you, I'm Korean, my parents hail from South Korea, and North Korea is probably one of the better (IF ANY) communist country. Plus, great food again. Good food indeed. __________________ 'What ninja weapon did Don get? A stickball bat. Hey, you can call it a 'bo'. But you can call it a Ford Tempo too...it's still just a stick.'

03-12-2003, 08:03 PM	#48
One Radical Dude Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Central/SW AR, USA Posts: 495	He's a Warmonger... Interesting ad that I was showed to yesterday. __________________

03-12-2003, 08:49 PM	#50
One Radical Dude Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Central/SW AR, USA Posts: 495	Ugh...maybe, I shouldn't have said anything. __________________

View Poll Results: Do you want:
PEACE	19	65.52%
WAR	10	34.48%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

03-12-2003, 09:08 PM	#51
Voltron Handsomest Boy in School Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Realm of SJW Posts: 4,642	Hear me out I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm just trying to get through to some people out there who haven't gotten it through there heads. I know they have an argument against war, but petty reasons like "Bush wants votes" or "I have heritage from there" doesn't mean can't go to war to protect US interests. There probably are good reasons not to go to war. But as of yet I haven't heard any of them.

03-12-2003, 09:22 PM	#52
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Hey, sorry for going a bit off-topic, BUT.... Has Anyone here seen the thing on the news about "French" foods being changed to "freedom" foods? i.e., french/freedom toast, french/freedom fries, french/freedom vanilla, frnech/freedom poodle, kiss, etc? How Immature is this?! I'm ready to see some sort of national referendum with us saying, " france is a big stupid head" or something...! I would love to hear views on this....

03-12-2003, 09:55 PM	#54
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Its slowly spreading out from capitol hill, and slowly gonna make its way to the rest of the US...its so immature... proud to be a French-Canadian-American

03-12-2003, 10:06 PM	#56
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	My Gahd, its happening already?! Oh the horror!!!