TMNT's plot (IDW)?

[Leo656]

That is a good counter-point. I forgot about that one. Guy must have friends in high places, as it doesn't happen much in the movie biz. That's about as rare an example as you can find. More often it's like, "Less Than Zero" or something, where they keep the name but make a movie that has so little in common with the original material that it's amazing they even bothered keeping the name.

[Fjaj]

Yeah, it's a really sad state of things, however think the internet might be the beginning of a change, with things like crowdfunding in the future we may see more big adaptations made by their original creators. Right now crowdfunding it not that financially viable at all, but in the future it might in part contribute to consumers being the directly involved with the creators. The internet overall will eventually get rid of the middle-man.

[Leo656]

I could see that. It's pretty amazing - and sad - how many fan films and fan trailers for various licensed properties there are floating around on the internet, that make Hollywood's attempt at the same characters look like sh*t. As much as I liked Nolan's Batman trilogy, for example, I'd love to see the guy who made "Batman: Dead End" get $200 million to put HIS vision on the big screen. But that would never happen in today's environment, because it's not "different" enough for Hollywood. Maybe one day things will change.

[Allio]

Originally Posted by Puddinpop

Hm.. Im wondering how you could possibly know that for sure.

[Leo656]

Haha, that looks like a Rubik's Snake.

[Artist]

The issue is Hollywood knows movies. Im sorry but people who work on film and live for this stuff (hollywood studios) know how to make movies. Movies are a different monster from comics and video games. Look at what Frank Miller did with the spirit. The people making these movies really believe they are making wonderful movies. They don't go to work thinking about cash this, cash that. I've been on enough sets to know. Movies are all perspective. The Resident Evil movies don't just make money, but people keep going back because they love the movies. The people on this forum are just more analytical. The general audience just loves simple and BOOM! Hollywood is giving the people what they want. People keep watching movies ( That we think are crap) not to just cash in, but because that is what the audience wants. Thats not bad. Its awsome. It provides the funds so the analytical movie goer gets what he wants some times. Could we have gotten this new XMEN movie ( was just amazing i might add) if it was not for the other horrible xmen movies ( X3, Origins ) that made the general audience go see it and show the studio it was still a money maker? Then again this is just all opinion. Just as you have yours. Respect for the long post. I like long post ha ha. As for the Kevin thing. We will see if any of his influence is really in the movie, once the movie comes out. As I posted earlier in the thread, I can see many influences from the IDW comic just in the trailer. Kevin is a big part of the IDW comic. I think he was a big influence on the film. But I could always be wrong. Lets hope i'm not.

[Candy Kappa]

Yes, so garbage, Big Red got his own action figure by NECA

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by AlphaAF

Batman: Dead End was GARBAGE.

Was it the part where Batman and the Joker actually looked *exactly* like Batman and the Joker, and not some "reimagined" Hollywood version of them that pissed you off? Tell us how ya really feel, guy. I'm curious.

The guy who made it was half just f*cking around and half trying to get more SFX work. I'm not sure what criteria you're using to judge it as "garbage", exactly. I'm fairly certain the guy didn't expect his fan project that was mostly done on a lark to win any awards. It *looked* amazing, and that was the entire point of it. To show that, despite what Hollywood insists, you actually *can* recreate these characters in live action looking *exactly* as if they stepped off the printed page, and that if it's done right it doesn't look "cheesy" or anything else the movie studio creeps always insist. It proved that point 1000%. So yeah... kinda not sure what the problem with it is.

[Candy Kappa]

Because, superheroes is sooo serious to begin with

[Puddinpop]

Originally Posted by Leo656

This is not directed at any one person - and apologies in advance for the length, but you all know that's my Gimmick by now - but whether the movie turns out great or crap, I'm beyond sick of the "Eastman is involved so it has to mean something good!" argument. For the love of God, Hollywood simply does NOT work that way. If you read a ton and study how these movies based on pre-existing IP actually get made, then you know that the absolute LAST thing any Hollywood movie studio wants is some "lowly comic book writer" meddling with their billion-dollar product. Need I remind anyone how George Romero, the guy who created Resident Evil, was sh*t-canned from writing the movie based on the property HE created? Why? Because "Hollywood Knows Better." Because the movie studio insisted that the guy who invented the f*cking property they were adapting for a film had no idea how to tell the story HE created in the first place! And that's just one very depressing example. It's symptomatic of a larger issue in Hollywood. Movie producers completely, entirely look down on comic book writers and the like, and have for decades. It extends to "real" writers such as novelists as well. Simple, Absolute Facts.

I disagree with about 80 percent of this post.. You may be getting sick of hearing about Eastmans involvement.. But some of us are getting really sick of hearing that this movie is just Bay in a room with his explosives. You dont think we find it annoying when people bitch about nostrils and yoga pants and broken bricks? I guess that this film is being made by a bunch of Hollywood passionless bloodsuckers that know nothing about TMNT. No one ever said that this was going to be "good" bc of his involvement.. But he IS a consultant. Prove that he isn't rather than calling us all a bunch of " ****ing marks". Maybe you should try and take a breath or two man.. After watching countless interviews with them talking about being locked in a room with Eastman Mednick and Walker for hours ..it IS relevant. Prove that it isn't? You cant. If people are going to be flat out dismissive of this films authenticity and act like it's one clueless moron involved then your going to hear stories about Eastman being consulted for 5 years. People are tired of this same dismissiveness. I know some folks think that if your a Hollywood director that it some how makes you an ignorant passionless moron that is only out to make a buck.. It's just more of the same bias, broad stroke generalizations that we hear all the time around here lately. But when it's a movie that they LOVE??? It some how isn't made in Hollywood... People don't get to use that " Capitalist Hollywood " argument only when referring to films that they dislike. It seems like it's the only time it gets brought up.

That said, they DO understand how touchy fanboys are, and will go to any lengths to make them happy well in advance, because it is the word of mouth of those hardcore types that will make or break a big blockbuster movie. And there is no better, safer, more effective way to silence any premature nerd rage than to get one of the creators on board to publicly trumpet how awesome everything in the movie is going to be. It's an effective marketing gimmick, but that's ALL it is. Try and understand, be it Eastman, Stan Lee, or Bob Kane, these people are NOT involved in the actual making of these films! That is not speculation, that is FACT. The role of a Lee, Kane, or Eastman, is two-fold: Step 1: Say everything is terrific. Step 2: Cash a huge check.

A FACT? then prove it.. again with this flat out dismissiveness like you actually hang out behind the curtains or something lol. Prove that Eastman hasn't been involved with the film's development and that he has been "lying" to everyone.. Prove that this film " that no one has seen yet" will not include any of his ideas or utilize any of his concept designs. Prove that Liebesman didn't rely on him for direction, mythology and story. I'm so tired of this " evil rich people" crap. I make a good deal of money being an executive chef.. If some envious kid came up to me and tried to tell me that I wasn't "passionate" about cooking bc I was cashing a check at the end of the week I'd laugh in his face. Are there people in Hollywood that could care less about the fans and just want to make money? OF..COURSE!! But lobbing them all into one fat group of soulless passionless carless parasites is wrong.. But I know.. We are talking about a movie that some of you cant stand.. so lets find every excuse we can think of to invalidate it.

When the original writer/creator comes onto a Hollywood movie as a "Consultant", you simply have to understand and realize that "Consultant" is code for "Paid Shill." These people simply aren't "allowed" to work on Hollywood projects, because Hollywood doesn't respect them. Guys like Frank Miller and Geoff Johns are exceptions, because they worked in Hollywood before/during their comic-writing careers, so they're looked at differently within the industry. They've "paid their dues" in Hollywood. A guy like Eastman, the studio looks at and says, "Well, if this guy knew anything, he'd be working out here making movies like us, not writing silly little comic books for children." I'm just the messenger, but that IS their logic. There's also unions and other bullsh*t involved that makes any involvement from anyone like Eastman purely superficial by definition, but at the end of the day, it's really the lack of respect thing. They only hire them to keep people like us happy. And when you say, "Eastman/Lee/Kane is involved, it HAS to be good!" you're buying into it, or, more aptly put, Falling For It.

In this case, though, it's even worse, because anyone who ever worked with/for him will tell you that Kevin Eastman has a long track record of both blatant dishonesty if it's going to protect his bottom line (ask half the guys involved with Tundra) AND swearing up and down that awful TMNT ideas are good. The guy, point blank, can hardly be trusted with anything he says about anything. That doesn't 100% PROVE that this new movie is going to be bad, but based on his track record, if he says it's great, I'm more inclined to believe the opposite. He has, and will, say ANY damn thing for money. God Bless Him for creating TMNT and everything, but at the end of the day, it's just a job. He's admitted hundreds and hundreds of times, the guy kind of doesn't give a sh*t about TMNT. The guy could give a hundred interviews in a hundred YouTube videos about how much he was involved in the movie, and it won't change the fact, it's bullsh*t. I don't need to be on the set to know that, anyone with even the tiniest understand of how movie-making works knows that.

Long, meandering story short, Eastman being a "consultant" means absolutely nothing at all. It doesn't mean the movie will be bad, but it equally has no bearing on whether or not it's good. He's a Marketing Tool for them. Please, please, trust in this, and anyone swearing his input will be the film's Saving Grace, you can stop. He doesn't care about TMNT past a paycheck. I know you WANT him to care, because you love what he created so very dearly, but HE only ever cared about the money, and he's said so a million times. So quit being f*cking marks. It makes it very hard to take literally everything else you say seriously when you're so deeply invested in something that simply Is Not True.

Again, not directed at anyone specifically, but it's just a really, really weak, defensive argument based 100% on a lie, and it's annoying beyond belief. Here's the simple truth: Kevin Eastman Is Not Involved In The TMNT Movie In Any Way That Matters. He Is A Walking, Talking Commercial. A Paid Spokesperson. Definitely NOT a "consultant". Movies simply do not work that way. In a perfect world, Eastman & Laird would be able to make their own TMNT movie, but they're Not Allowed To and never WILL be allowed to, because of how Hollywood works, and that's that. Period, end of discussion, put a ribbon on it, whatever. Sorry to rain on your parade, gang, but don't pin your hopes and dreams on a lie. I'm only trying to help.

Wow.. this entire post isn't "chock" full of hate Ok lets all go home now.. This guys has put the nail in the coffin. He has spoken. An entire book just to generalize everyone in the film industry as a bunch of soulless passionless parasites " only when talking about films you dislike" and flat out calling Kevin Eastman a lying shill that only gives a **** about money and cares nothing about his Franchise. Literally talking as if he were inside the minds of these people lol. Honestly some of the stuff you said could be true for some.. but most of it was so ridiculous that i actually found it offensive. Making these solid judgments like you know these people.. I find it repulsing to say the least. I guess it's a "strong argument to just dismiss everything and call everyone a bunch of liars and make generalizations about people you don't even know.. AS FACT mind you lol. Let me say this.. If I or anyone ever spoke this way about Peter Laird? We'd have our asses torn to shreds. Even if it was "opinion based" which this was not. Not trying to start a war with you but I couldn't not respond to this post

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by AlphaAF

Wait, aren't you the one arguing the musculature on the chest of the Bay turtles is wrong because they realistically wouldn't mutate that way?

You have an ever shifting set of standards of how you argue things.

.

All about context, buddy.

[Puddinpop]

What is this Batman-Dead End thing?

[Puddinpop]

Yea.. the other day we were talking about a Turtles anatomy and i did the whole " There is nothing reason-minded about 4 mutated talking walking turtle ninjas " and then they said i was using the " Crislers law" sooo it's like.. which is it?.. Is it all ridiculous or is it the new King James Bible?

The only thing i don't want in this film is for Splinter to be Aprils Father..Splinter looks Japanese and i don't think that was an accident

[Leo656]

Puddinpop, I'm not going to google around and link every single article that's ever been written in the last three decades on how little people like Bob Kane and Stan Lee have had to do with movies based on characters they created, despite being paid and credited as "consultants." You're a big boy, so I'll let you handle that. There's a million articles, interviews, etc. out there that say exactly that, that these "consultants" do nothing but get paid to say, "This movie, based on my character, is the cat's ass. Go see it!" Based on a little thing called "historical precedent", it makes ZERO sense to assume Kevin Eastman's situation is any different from theirs. Could it be? Possibly, yeah, but why believe that? Blind faith? Because I/you/we want to believe it? Doesn't it make more sense to believe that it's the exact same relationship every single "consultant" has ever had on a licensed film? Why would Kevin Eastman be an exception to the way things have always been done? Seriously. You want "proof", I'll settle for "precedent". I don't need to *see* the grass in Australia to know that it's green; I know it's green there because it's green f*cking everywhere. "Precedent".

Hollywood doesn't just suddenly change the way they've always done business just to take direction from the guy who bought Heavy Metal the exact second everyone stopped caring about it. The guy started Tundra, a comic book company that pissed almost $15 million down the drain in less than three years and pissed off a ton of his contemporaries in the process. The guy was banging Julie Strain, and for some reason I can't even begin to comprehend, he isn't anymore. The guy swore The Next Mutation was good. Clearly, he's a genius unparalleled, all because he created Ninja Turtles. I can see why they'd want his advice.

Look, I love the guy for what he's given us, and I wish him all the best. But he's just a guy, and his track record for being less than truthful is strong, and I'm not going to believe he had a big role in making the movie just because they say he did. Hollywood almost never does that with these comic book movies, and I don't think he'd be the guy they'd make exceptions for. And just for the record, I've said way, way worse things about Peter Laird. The hell do I care? I don't hate the guy, wish him all the best, but when I don't like the stuff he's worked on, like Mirage Vol. 4, I have no problem saying so. He created TMNT. So what? I'm not going to deify anyone just because they had a hand in creating entertainment that I enjoy. I'm a paying customer, and some of the stuff he did was crummy. Based on how awful Vol. 4 was, I could probably sue for damages and win. I paid $4 an issue for that... that.

And no, I don't personally know the people working on the TMNT movie, but from my wrestling gig and hanging with lots of people in bands, I've met tons of people who work in almost every level of the entertainment industry. Simply put, without name-dropping, I've had dinner with enough millionaires and their co-conspirators over the years to have a pretty good idea of How Things Work. Feel free to think what you want, and disagree all you want, but I base my opinions, predictions, and generalizations based entirely on what people who actually do that stuff for a living tell me goes on behind the scenes, not what I "think" or "hope" to be true. And I never base anything off of just one or two people saying something, only what's been corroborated over and over again. Sorry that the things I Know don't match the things you Hope, but that's life, man. Not trying to be a dick, just trying to say, I actually know some stuff. Not about *this* movie, specifically, but more than enough about movies in general to have a pretty good idea how they put this one together.

It's whatever, guy. I'm just being a realist, not a "hater". When you get to know me a little better, you'll know that if I'm stating something with conviction, you can almost definitely take it to the bank, because it's something I've done my homework on. Not because I'm trying to bring people down, it's because I'm trying to explain things that aren't being properly understood. You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, but I'm not going to list every "person of relevance" and cite every story they've ever told me about "The Biz" just to satisfy anyone's craving for "Proof". I meet people. We talk. I hear things. Most of those things turn out to be true. Some of those things aren't what people want them to be. It is what it is. I don't take sides, and I don't betray people and things they tell me in private conversations just to "prove" I know what I'm talking about. I just relay information. You cats can take it or leave it.

Except Kevin Nash. I'll go ahead and name-drop the sh*t out of Kevin Nash, because he's my goddamn hero and the brief time we've spent together was magical. I'll never forget pearls of wisdom such as, "Some days, I make ten grand just walking to the mailbox to pick up my SAG check," and, "Jaime Pressley was pretty f*cking hot (on the set of Dead Or Alive)."

Not trying to start a war with you either, man, but I'm not going to come out and tell you or anyone, "You're wrong," about anything unless I'm, at least, 90% sure that you're wrong. I'm an asshole, not a scumbag. There's a distinction.

And I'm the first one to call "Pretentious Bullsh*t" on the "Crisler's Law" thing, but I do think there's a line where some things just get flat-out ridiculous and that people shouldn't make a point to cross it just because "Why not, it's all fake anyway." I don't like that.

[Puddinpop]

But you can make judgments about people you don't even know?.. Guy loves his fans.. never shuts up about them actually.. He seems like the most appreciative happy life loving guy that is always saying all the time how much he loves the turtles.. I doubt he does ANY of this for money.. he just doesn't seem like that kind of guy. But then again I don't know him personally so I cant say for sure. So I think you are wrong about him being " in it for the $ and could give a **** about the franchise he built" and also wrong about Liebesman not utilizing him. It's all good.. I just disagree.

[Leo656]

Don't misunderstand. I'm pretty sure, to a man, that Kev and Pete are both great guys. They seem like decent people, and I'm sure they do care about the fans. But both of them have said more than once that they never expected - or intended - for TMNT to become the defining thing they ever accomplished or were known for. Pete, in particular, sometimes comes off a little bitter about it. And let's not forget, at one point Kevin completely removed himself from TMNT for a very long time. Kevin has even said that there was a long stretch even before that, when the entire TMNT franchise was running "on autopilot" while other people handled it and he and Pete mostly just got paid from it, while using the money to attempt to kick-start individual pet projects, that each of them hoped would enable them to eventually, one day, create other brands, do other things, and eventually step away from TMNT completely. That was always their endgame. Making enough money from it, to be able to one day go do something else. They've both admitted that.

People act like Kev and Pete were a lot more passionate about it than even they admit they really were. It's not that they didn't or don't care about TMNT, but plain and simple, the main, primary thing they loved and got out of it was the money. It's always been the main thing. Peter said he wouldn't have had a problem selling off TMNT to Nickelodeon or someone else 15 or 20 years ago if the right offer had come along. It's business. There's no law that says you have to be as passionate about the things you create as your fans are. Jim Davis kind of hates Garfield. Alec Guinness hated Star Wars. Odd, I know, but life's funny like that. We get so passionate about these things we love, that we project onto creators and performers, we convince ourselves that they share the same deep emotional investment in their art as we do, and a lot of times, they don't care quite as deeply as we do, past the point of it being a business. It doesn't make them bad people, just business men creating a product. God bless 'em for it. But saying you doubt they do any of it for money is naive. You think they have "enough"? It's always at least a little bit about the money.

The "judgment" I'm making is, and has been, simply this: He's doing the right thing, business-wise, by hyping up as much excitement as he can for the movie, by any means necessary. But, based on his own history if nothing else, he very well might be over-selling it, at the very least. Do I know? No. Educated guess? He's known for slight exaggerations, at times. I just call it like I see it.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I could see that. It's pretty amazing - and sad - how many fan films and fan trailers for various licensed properties there are floating around on the internet, that make Hollywood's attempt at the same characters look like sh*t. As much as I liked Nolan's Batman trilogy, for example, I'd love to see the guy who made "Batman: Dead End" get $200 million to put HIS vision on the big screen. But that would never happen in today's environment, because it's not "different" enough for Hollywood. Maybe one day things will change.

Haven't seen Batman: Dead End, but you should totally check out Batman: City of Scars.

Right, back on topic

[ninja-zero]

I thought the TMNT's movie would be based on the IDW comics.

[sethmartin]

Kevin Eastman has absolutely been working on the film since the beginning. Yes there are occasions when "consultants" are just hired for marketing purposes but that isn't the case here. They've been reporting of Eastman's involvement from the start. He has stated in interviews that he has been working on the film since before Michael Bay came on board, he helped with the designs of the characters, and that the collaborated with the director. If people don't think the movie looks good that's fine, it's a matter of taste. However, to try and back up your distaste for it with claims that everyone involved in the film are liars who only care about money is a bit much. On everything I've ever worked on, the directors, producers, cast, etc. are usually very passionate about the work they are doing (it is work after all). It's usually the business men who put up the money that are responsible for bonehead decisions.

[ninja-zero]

The plot is suppose to make the turtles, Splinter & Shredder reincarnations of their past lives in feudal Japan right?