TMNT and martial arts - Page 3

**HorseTechie** · 10-15-2002, 02:20 PM

But.. I LIKE headaches!

It's a sign my brain muscles are working out and hopefully getting smarter. Yeeeah...

Raphaella · 10-15-2002, 02:22 PM

Wow, that lot was really interesting guys, where'd you hear i?! Lol, I hav to say I was interested in Karate a while bak (and kickboxing a lot more), but I think TMNT has boosted my ambitions to just gerrout there and do it!

**HorseTechie** · 10-15-2002, 02:23 PM

*is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu*

speedracer · 10-15-2002, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heretic888

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi is the ONLY living grandmaster of ninjutsu. That is, he is the ONLY headmaster of authentic ninjutsu traditions that is still alive. His authority on the subject is indisputable. He is really the only scholar with an 'insider's' view about the ninja. Most conventinal accounts of ninpo are seen from the samurai's point of view.

As for Dungeons and Dragons, I have looked over what is said about ninja in Oriental Adventures, Rokugan, and The Way of Ninja. I can assure you that D&D is one of the most INACCURATE accounts of ninja and ninjutsu ever done by an rpg system. The REAL ninja have far more in common with the Monk class in D&D than they ever would with the Ninja class. If you want an accurate rpg account of ninpo, i would suggest Sengoku and its supplement Shinobi: Shadows of Nihon.

OK.

But what do you mean when you say "authentic ninjutsu traditions"? I'm thinking that you mean the art of ninjutsu as originally practiced by the clan or society that invented it.

What I am now asking is, did there ever exist a class of people who devoted themselves mostly to the arts of stealth, spying, assassination, etc. that are commonly associated with ninjas today?

If so, then you are probably correct when you give your description of "authentic ninjutsu traditions", but it would be somewhat akin to calling Dr. James Naismith's basketball "authentic basketball."

**Kali** · 10-15-2002, 08:01 PM

The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.

Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything.

*heretic888* · 10-16-2002, 07:03 AM

"*is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu*"
-----------
good luck there. email me or pm me if you want some help.

-----------------------------------------------
"But what do you mean when you say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions'? I'm thinking that you mean the art of ninjutsu as originally practiced by the clan or society that invented it.

What I am now asking is, did there ever exist a class of people who devoted themselves mostly to the arts of stealth, spying, assassination, etc. that are commonly associated with ninjas today?

If so, then you are probably correct when you give your description of 'authentic ninjutsu traditions', but it would be somewhat akin to calling Dr. James Naismith's basketball 'authentic basketball.'"
------------
When I say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions' i am referring to a martial arts lineage that can be historically traced back to the Japanese counterculture and subsociety history later decided to label 'ninja'. The 'ninja counterculture' had a specific approach to handling life's challenges, a specific system of martial arts principles and concepts, and a specific life philosophy. They were indeed a unique and distinctive martial culture. Any true ninjutsu system would naturally inherit the ninja's unique martial arts principles. The actual applications and manifestations of these principles and concepts may differ from time to time and from school to school, but the core principles and philosophies are universal to the ninja arts.

No, at no point in their history did the ninja ever devote themselves primarily to the so-called 'dark side' of the martial arts. Although they most certainly did study and train in the disciplines you mentioned, that was never their primary focus. The two most primary studies in ninpo have always been spiritual refinement and empty-handed combat (according to Dr. Hatsumi anyway). That is the way it was in the past, and that is the way it is now.
-------------------------------
"The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.

Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything."
---------------
It is true that the specific practices and applications of the ninja martial principles and concepts have evolved and adapted over time, but the core principles and philosophies and 'essense' or 'feeling' themselves have remained universal and timeless.

Correction: there HAVE been several ninjutsu groups and traditions. The vast majority of them have died out, however. Hatsumi's Bujinkan tradition believes they are the 'true path' (regarding ninpo anyway) because they are the ONLY 'ninjutsu school' that can trace themselves historically back to the ninja martial culture. Some martial schools have preserved bits and pieces of the ninja arts, but only Dr. Hatsumi has inherited complete ninjutsu systems and understand the complete 'feeling' and 'essence' embodying the ninja warrior. I must add that the vast majority of 'ninja schools' that have popped up in the West over the past 20 years are (about 90%) completely fake. They were simply capitalizing on the 'ninja boom' of the 80's.

At times, the ninja DID use their art for assassination and the like. They did whatever was necessary to preserve their family's safety and ensure the nation's welfare. It is true the techniques have been misused by unscrupulous individuals, but such people did not have the blessing of ninjutsu masters and were acting in complete contradiction to the ninja's philosophy of life. No ninjutsu family would ever call such men 'one of their own'.

laterz.

*heretic888* · 04-15-2003, 04:50 PM

I remember this. This was one of my first threads when I became a member here. Good times, good times.....

anyways, I feel like talking ninjutsu again. So let the good times roll!!

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-15-2003, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali

The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries.

And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness.
.

I agree, and I've found that people who only study one Style of Martial Arts tend to be very arrogant about it, and keep a closed mind to techniques outside their style.

*heretic888* · 04-15-2003, 05:33 PM

Its kind of weird though. In the Bujinkan anyways, 'ninjutsu' (or rather, budo taijutsu) consists of at least nine different traditional schools. So, the people studying that system learn from many different schools of thought. And, the Bujinkan itself is a very informal and diverse organization, with many different kinds of teachers and approaches.

Still, I know where you are coming from with the close-minded thing....

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-15-2003, 05:36 PM

Have you ever tried to discuss technique with someone who's only studied one Martial art?
It's a pain. They constanly correct you.

*Note* These are generalizations, Of course individual people vary.

*heretic888* · 04-16-2003, 08:31 AM

Yes, I know what you mean.

I am happy that kind of thinking is generally avoided in the Bujinkan, due to the diversity and informality of the organization.

SavantiRomero · 04-16-2003, 09:43 AM

Hmm my martial art history.

I've studied only Korean martial arts.

Tae Kwon Do (way or art of hand and foot fighting)
Hap Ki Do (way or art of circular motion)
Kum Do (way or art of the sword)

I started with Tae Kwon Do back in 1991. Took a short break in 1996 for Basic Training, started back up in 1997. In 1998 I began assistant teaching after achieving my 1st Dan. I assisted with all three classes M,W,F and even helped with the childrens classes (daycare). The instructor started a kickboxing class to get more people in the community involved and I helped assistant teach that as well.

I started Hap Ki Do as well and mad it up to a red belt (just before recieving your recommended 1st dan black belt). We did some knife, baton, staff and nunchuku practice in the advanced class.

In 2000 the instructor introduced his assistant instructors to Kum Do. Primarily so we can assist him with training partners.

In 2001 I stopped going to class due to work and school. I practiced a few times a week and did some work out proceedures on the weekends.

In 2002 I went back to class again. But not long. I had been told of my mobalization and knew I wouldn't be able to stay. I intend to restart classes as soon as I get back to the states.

I Got into the martial arts after I was exposed to the TMNT, but not primarily becuase of them. They did help me to continue though. But one thing you learn, and learn well, if you are a true student of any art, is that ALL martial arts are a way of life. Students who fail to grasp this concept fail, even if they achieve high rankings. ALL martial arts are spiritual, harmonizing the body mind and spirit as one.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-16-2003, 10:16 AM

I've once attended a school that teaches Taekwondo, judo, and Hapkido. I really didn't do so well.

I'm much better when I train on my own, and this was during a confusing time in my life.
Taekwondo was always my father's favorite Martial Art so I had to try it though.

CookSux · 04-16-2003, 10:28 AM

Well being a of korean decent, it was natural that I went into TaeKwonDo... but that was years ago. I trained myself to a level where i'm "this" close to making my own hadoken.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-16-2003, 10:31 AM

You should try "Combat Ki" style Karate, for that.

Caliosidhe · 04-16-2003, 04:30 PM

The Ninja Turtles really did inspire to get into Martial Arts to a degree.. but even before they became mainstream, I'd glue my face to the front of every martial art school I came across. It could be that the martial arts were soemthing that made the turtles appeal just a bit more to me

I studied TaeKwonDo for several years and did a whole lot of competition concerning that. Then I had to leave that school a few years ago and am 'still' lookin for something to match it. Haven't anything as good yet. But right after I left I signed up with another school that had an integrated system and was focused entirely on self defense. And took elements from Hap Ki Do, Aikido, Tang so do. I got my black belt in that..and then moved to New york. Where I trained for a few months with a former olympic coach.. until travel times and costs became a bit too much. (And the school STILL wasn't as nice as my first one)

Now I'm looking for another school yet again because I've decided I miss it too much.

*Tetsu Deinonychus* · 04-16-2003, 08:02 PM

I got into the TMNT because they were Ninjas not the other way around.

*heretic888* · 04-18-2003, 07:24 AM

Not me. The major (but not the only) reason I got into martial arts in general and ninjutsu in particular is because of the TMNT.

10-15-2002, 02:22 PM	#42
Raphaella Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: England, building my own sewer system Posts: 403	Wow, that lot was really interesting guys, where'd you hear i?! Lol, I hav to say I was interested in Karate a while bak (and kickboxing a lot more), but I think TMNT has boosted my ambitions to just gerrout there and do it! __________________ "We came, we saw, we kicked their ASS!" - Ghostbusters message to UK channels : You SUCK ~ Mutant lover

10-16-2002, 07:03 AM	#46
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	even more responses :) "is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu" ----------- good luck there. email me or pm me if you want some help. ----------------------------------------------- "But what do you mean when you say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions'? I'm thinking that you mean the art of ninjutsu as originally practiced by the clan or society that invented it. What I am now asking is, did there ever exist a class of people who devoted themselves mostly to the arts of stealth, spying, assassination, etc. that are commonly associated with ninjas today? If so, then you are probably correct when you give your description of 'authentic ninjutsu traditions', but it would be somewhat akin to calling Dr. James Naismith's basketball 'authentic basketball.'" ------------ When I say 'authentic ninjutsu traditions' i am referring to a martial arts lineage that can be historically traced back to the Japanese counterculture and subsociety history later decided to label 'ninja'. The 'ninja counterculture' had a specific approach to handling life's challenges, a specific system of martial arts principles and concepts, and a specific life philosophy. They were indeed a unique and distinctive martial culture. Any true ninjutsu system would naturally inherit the ninja's unique martial arts principles. The actual applications and manifestations of these principles and concepts may differ from time to time and from school to school, but the core principles and philosophies are universal to the ninja arts. No, at no point in their history did the ninja ever devote themselves primarily to the so-called 'dark side' of the martial arts. Although they most certainly did study and train in the disciplines you mentioned, that was never their primary focus. The two most primary studies in ninpo have always been spiritual refinement and empty-handed combat (according to Dr. Hatsumi anyway). That is the way it was in the past, and that is the way it is now. ------------------------------- "The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries. And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness. Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything." --------------- It is true that the specific practices and applications of the ninja martial principles and concepts have evolved and adapted over time, but the core principles and philosophies and 'essense' or 'feeling' themselves have remained universal and timeless. Correction: there HAVE been several ninjutsu groups and traditions. The vast majority of them have died out, however. Hatsumi's Bujinkan tradition believes they are the 'true path' (regarding ninpo anyway) because they are the ONLY 'ninjutsu school' that can trace themselves historically back to the ninja martial culture. Some martial schools have preserved bits and pieces of the ninja arts, but only Dr. Hatsumi has inherited complete ninjutsu systems and understand the complete 'feeling' and 'essence' embodying the ninja warrior. I must add that the vast majority of 'ninja schools' that have popped up in the West over the past 20 years are (about 90%) completely fake. They were simply capitalizing on the 'ninja boom' of the 80's. At times, the ninja DID use their art for assassination and the like. They did whatever was necessary to preserve their family's safety and ensure the nation's welfare. It is true the techniques have been misused by unscrupulous individuals, but such people did not have the blessing of ninjutsu masters and were acting in complete contradiction to the ninja's philosophy of life. No ninjutsu family would ever call such men 'one of their own'. laterz. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 04:50 PM	#47
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	Ahhh I remember this. This was one of my first threads when I became a member here. Good times, good times..... anyways, I feel like talking ninjutsu again. So let the good times roll!! __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 05:33 PM	#49
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	Hmmm Its kind of weird though. In the Bujinkan anyways, 'ninjutsu' (or rather, budo taijutsu) consists of at least nine different traditional schools. So, the people studying that system learn from many different schools of thought. And, the Bujinkan itself is a very informal and diverse organization, with many different kinds of teachers and approaches. Still, I know where you are coming from with the close-minded thing.... __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-15-2003, 05:36 PM	#50
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	Have you ever tried to discuss technique with someone who's only studied one Martial art? It's a pain. They constanly correct you. Note These are generalizations, Of course individual people vary. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

10-15-2002, 02:20 PM	#41
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	But.. I LIKE headaches! It's a sign my brain muscles are working out and hopefully getting smarter. Yeeeah...

10-15-2002, 02:23 PM	#43
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	is suddenly spawning new ideas for fanfics regarding the true identity of one who studies ninjutsu

10-15-2002, 08:01 PM	#45
Kali Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: California! Posts: 11,101	The thing is, ninjutsu has become like every other group. The principles have been around for about 800 years or so, and the practice has evolved and adapted over the centuries. And like any human group, there are several ninjutsu groups and traditions, every one thinking they are the "true path." I've never trusted people who say they use information from just one source because that makes them biased towards that source, and it usually leads to narrow mindedness. Some people did use ninjutsu techniques to become spies and assassins. The techniques themselves are merely tools, and as such, can be misused, like anything.

04-16-2003, 08:31 AM	#51
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm Yes, I know what you mean. I am happy that kind of thinking is generally avoided in the Bujinkan, due to the diversity and informality of the organization. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)

04-16-2003, 09:43 AM	#52
SavantiRomero Hench Mutant Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 277	Hmm my martial art history. I've studied only Korean martial arts. Tae Kwon Do (way or art of hand and foot fighting) Hap Ki Do (way or art of circular motion) Kum Do (way or art of the sword) I started with Tae Kwon Do back in 1991. Took a short break in 1996 for Basic Training, started back up in 1997. In 1998 I began assistant teaching after achieving my 1st Dan. I assisted with all three classes M,W,F and even helped with the childrens classes (daycare). The instructor started a kickboxing class to get more people in the community involved and I helped assistant teach that as well. I started Hap Ki Do as well and mad it up to a red belt (just before recieving your recommended 1st dan black belt). We did some knife, baton, staff and nunchuku practice in the advanced class. In 2000 the instructor introduced his assistant instructors to Kum Do. Primarily so we can assist him with training partners. In 2001 I stopped going to class due to work and school. I practiced a few times a week and did some work out proceedures on the weekends. In 2002 I went back to class again. But not long. I had been told of my mobalization and knew I wouldn't be able to stay. I intend to restart classes as soon as I get back to the states. I Got into the martial arts after I was exposed to the TMNT, but not primarily becuase of them. They did help me to continue though. But one thing you learn, and learn well, if you are a true student of any art, is that ALL martial arts are a way of life. Students who fail to grasp this concept fail, even if they achieve high rankings. ALL martial arts are spiritual, harmonizing the body mind and spirit as one.

04-16-2003, 10:16 AM	#53
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I've once attended a school that teaches Taekwondo, judo, and Hapkido. I really didn't do so well. I'm much better when I train on my own, and this was during a confusing time in my life. Taekwondo was always my father's favorite Martial Art so I had to try it though. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-16-2003, 10:28 AM	#54
CookSux Stone Warrior Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sparta Posts: 928	Well being a of korean decent, it was natural that I went into TaeKwonDo... but that was years ago. I trained myself to a level where i'm "this" close to making my own hadoken. __________________ http://http://cooksux.deviantart.com/ http://www.xanga.com/cooksux http://www.myspace.com/cooksux

04-16-2003, 10:31 AM	#55
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	You should try "Combat Ki" style Karate, for that. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-16-2003, 04:30 PM	#56
Caliosidhe Thug Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 95	The Ninja Turtles really did inspire to get into Martial Arts to a degree.. but even before they became mainstream, I'd glue my face to the front of every martial art school I came across. It could be that the martial arts were soemthing that made the turtles appeal just a bit more to me I studied TaeKwonDo for several years and did a whole lot of competition concerning that. Then I had to leave that school a few years ago and am 'still' lookin for something to match it. Haven't anything as good yet. But right after I left I signed up with another school that had an integrated system and was focused entirely on self defense. And took elements from Hap Ki Do, Aikido, Tang so do. I got my black belt in that..and then moved to New york. Where I trained for a few months with a former olympic coach.. until travel times and costs became a bit too much. (And the school STILL wasn't as nice as my first one) Now I'm looking for another school yet again because I've decided I miss it too much. __________________ I'm being punished, aren't I?

04-16-2003, 08:02 PM	#57
Tetsu Deinonychus The Iron Dinosaur Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Studio Snowlion HQ Posts: 3,021	I got into the TMNT because they were Ninjas not the other way around. __________________ (Image hosting by Postimage.org) And here's a list of all my old wacky threads!

04-18-2003, 07:24 AM	#58
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	hmmm Not me. The major (but not the only) reason I got into martial arts in general and ninjutsu in particular is because of the TMNT. __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)