Could someone enlighten me....

[Roseangelo]

First of all, it was never my intention for this thread to get so intense, and since I feel mostly responsible for that, I'd like to appologize.

I would not classify Kevin as a "saint," as some have mentioned. But TNM did not go forward just on Kevin's green light; Peter had to give approval, too. Kevin was just more open to the whole thing than Peter ever was. And I have no ill will towards Kevin for selling his share because being partners with a person you're no longer friends with would not be a pleasant or comfortable situation.

What my whole convuluted opinion boils down to is that I think Peter has handled the franchise WONDERFULLY ever since he took full control. I have absolutely no complaints with what he's done business-wise. However, I just don't think he should be writing stories 100% by himself. He needs someone else to balance everything to keep it all from becoming about Star Trek, dinosaurs, and motorcycles.

Likewise, if Kevin were in complete control, he would probably need a similar balance to level off the amount of guns and babes.

During the glory days of volume 1, Kevin and Peter were each others' balance.

And I still don't like the altering of history. If he wanted to go back to volume 1 and "reinvent" it in a more modern style and change dialogue in that version, I would probably really enjoy that. But simply Photoshopping over the original art? I don't, and never will, like it.

And all of this has been a simple statement of opinion. I'm not going to debate anything; I'm done with that.

[Lone Wolf]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

First of all, it was never my intention for this thread to get so intense, and since I feel mostly responsible for that, I'd like to appologize.

I would not classify Kevin as a "saint," as some have mentioned. But TNM did not go forward just on Kevin's green light; Peter had to give approval, too. Kevin was just more open to the whole thing than Peter ever was. And I have no ill will towards Kevin for selling his share because being partners with a person you're no longer friends with would not be a pleasant or comfortable situation.

What my whole convuluted opinion boils down to is that I think Peter has handled the franchise WONDERFULLY ever since he took full control. I have absolutely no complaints with what he's done business-wise. However, I just don't think he should be writing stories 100% by himself. He needs someone else to balance everything to keep it all from becoming about Star Trek, dinosaurs, and motorcycles.

Likewise, if Kevin were in complete control, he would probably need a similar balance to level off the amount of guns and babes.

During the glory days of volume 1, Kevin and Peter were each others' balance.

And I still don't like the altering of history. If he wanted to go back to volume 1 and "reinvent" it in a more modern style and change dialogue in that version, I would probably really enjoy that. But simply Photoshopping over the original art? I don't, and never will, like it.

And all of this has been a simple statement of opinion. I'm not going to debate anything; I'm done with that.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. Besides, any gal with a Michelangelo avatar that has the gumption to stand up in a thread dominated by guys with Raphael avatars is okay in my book.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

First of all, it was never my intention for this thread to get so intense, and since I feel mostly responsible for that, I'd like to appologize.

I would not classify Kevin as a "saint," as some have mentioned. But TNM did not go forward just on Kevin's green light; Peter had to give approval, too. Kevin was just more open to the whole thing than Peter ever was. And I have no ill will towards Kevin for selling his share because being partners with a person you're no longer friends with would not be a pleasant or comfortable situation.

What my whole convuluted opinion boils down to is that I think Peter has handled the franchise WONDERFULLY ever since he took full control. I have absolutely no complaints with what he's done business-wise. However, I just don't think he should be writing stories 100% by himself. He needs someone else to balance everything to keep it all from becoming about Star Trek, dinosaurs, and motorcycles.

Likewise, if Kevin were in complete control, he would probably need a similar balance to level off the amount of guns and babes.

During the glory days of volume 1, Kevin and Peter were each others' balance.

And I still don't like the altering of history. If he wanted to go back to volume 1 and "reinvent" it in a more modern style and change dialogue in that version, I would probably really enjoy that. But simply Photoshopping over the original art? I don't, and never will, like it.

And all of this has been a simple statement of opinion. I'm not going to debate anything; I'm done with that.

Noted. And I think you have some there, maybe Pete does need someone to balance him. But I doubt he'd want to share writting duties at this moment.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Influence of Japanese culture? There are just a bunch of ninjas, there was hardly any influence in the first volume.

Besides, now that I think about ti, it's no surprise that Kevin and Peter split. I don't think it's because of hostility, it's becasue they're two guys with two different styles. Eastman is very into the dark and gritty action, Laird is all about the sci-fi/fantasy approach. I'm surprised they made it work as long as they did. But, now that Eastman is free to express himself with Heavy Metal, Laird is free to express himself in TMNT.

I never said that it was a huge influence my friend but it is there, weather you can see it or not (take a look at the first issue for example)

Again theres a bit of it in there but now its all gone.....( I know I'm probably exagrating on the its gone part)

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Noted. And I think you have some there, maybe Pete does need someone to balance him. But I doubt he'd want to share writting duties at this moment.

That's why I like Tales so much. It's creativity coming from different angles instead of just one guy. I like Vol. 4 a lot but I'll always like Tales more.

That, or I just still have a slight problem with Gammeraph.

[Spitfire]

Alright I don't care if it's his comic or not. He made it years ago when he wasn't a douche and it should remain un-tainted by his idiocy.

You make something like that and it belongs to the fans, not the creator. Changing it like that is like ramming a huge dick up my ass and acting like I'll take and accept anything and everything he does just because he made it.

NO I like TMNT because of what it is, not because of him and his jew motives. He just wants to make it more kid friendly so he can fatten his pockets with cash from all the kids he thinks will buy it.

If he pulled his head out of his ass for 2 seconds he would realize the comics are for older more mature people and NO kids read them. He's messing with his fanbase don't be zombies and follow him like the "brain injured" stereotypes people make us out to be.

[Ratchet]

Where the hell did that come from? That's one of the most rancid and offensive posts I've come across on this board.

The dude created it and now owns it completely. It's his! He can do what he wants with it. Doesn't mean you have to consume it like a ravenous freak that knows it's not going to be content with the meal served. Don't like it, don't buy it, buy Tales instead. At least then those who DO like it don't have to listen to garbage like what you just posted. "Jew" motives? You ought to be ashamed dude, but you won't be so there's not too much point in me saying that.

And changing it like what?! The 3rd arc of the original series was more whacked out sci-fi than what we're getting now, and the story is far more engrossing. Writing like that clearly isn't aimed at kids and I sincerely doubt that anyone is that twisted mentally that they would go to all the effort of writing a comic book, losing money on it's publication but continuing to do so anyway, AND financing a second book that does the same just to "mess with their fanbase" as you so ridiculously put it.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

Alright I don't care if it's his comic or not. He made it years ago when he wasn't a douche and it should remain un-tainted by his idiocy.

You make something like that and it belongs to the fans, not the creator. Changing it like that is like ramming a huge dick up my ass and acting like I'll take and accept anything and everything he does just because he made it.

NO I like TMNT because of what it is, not because of him and his jew motives. He just wants to make it more kid friendly so he can fatten his pockets with cash from all the kids he thinks will buy it.

If he pulled his head out of his ass for 2 seconds he would realize the comics are for older more mature people and NO kids read them. He's messing with his fanbase don't be zombies and follow him like the "brain injured" stereotypes people make us out to be.

No dude, it his. Saying it belongs to the fans is something people say when a director goes back and changes old movies.

Did you create the TMNT, no. Did you provide the inspiration for TMNT, no. Did Kevin and/or Peter even consult you when they created the TMNT, no. So it's not your, it's not mine, it's not anone elses but Peter Laird's, like it or not.

And dude, he's retoning the books, not pussifing them and making them all colorful and cheery. Dude, comics aren't just for mature readers. TMNT has a wide fanbase, kids included. So naturally the comics aren't going to do anything that will turn off any part of the fanbase. The basic stories will all still be in tact, so I don't see the problem.

Look, the TMNT belong to Peter Laird, they're not your's, I don't see your name on the book. If you got a problem with the changes, then here's asimple solution, shut the **** up and don't read it, but don't act like you have final say in anything. Stop accusing him of erasing the legacies of anyone and being a dick.

This isn't just aimed at you Spitfire, it's aimed at alot of you.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

No dude, it his. Saying it belongs to the fans is something people say when a director goes back and changes old movies.

So if people do it with movies it's bad, but with comic books it's totally okay to photoshop over them and add in new and lame dialog. That's great.

I didn't need to be there when it was created. You want to take **** from someone just because they made it then fine.

Your like the fans that accept the new Star Wars movies and the changes to the old ones because "Its his movie he can do what he wants with it" yeah he can do whatever the hell he wants with it but I don't need to take or accept it in the least. If I think what their doing is stupid I'm not going to pull punches just because of who he is.

Enjoy reading your censored little kid comic books, I'll track down the originals. I was holding out for these paper backs but when I found out what he was doing to them besides re-inking them I got pissed.

You think TMNT is laird? Let me tell you something, before he had TMNT in his pocket the comics were better. The series he didn't work on was one of the best and he dislikes it.

TMNT is Eastman and Laird, but from the looks of things Eastman is who made it what it was.

And changing it like what?! The 3rd arc of the original series was more whacked out sci-fi than what we're getting now, and the story is far more engrossing. Writing like that clearly isn't aimed at kids and I sincerely doubt that anyone is that twisted mentally that they would go to all the effort of writing a comic book, losing money on it's publication but continuing to do so anyway, AND financing a second book that does the same just to "mess with their fanbase" as you so ridiculously put it.

I think he thinks what he's doing is right and I think it's stupid. You can't handle my posts then do what you suggest I do and don't read them.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Ratchet

Where the hell did that come from? That's one of the most rancid and offensive posts I've come across on this board.

The dude created it and now owns it completely. It's his! He can do what he wants with it. Doesn't mean you have to consume it like a ravenous freak that knows it's not going to be content with the meal served. Don't like it, don't buy it, buy Tales instead. At least then those who DO like it don't have to listen to garbage like what you just posted. "Jew" motives? You ought to be ashamed dude, but you won't be so there's not too much point in me saying that.

And changing it like what?! The 3rd arc of the original series was more whacked out sci-fi than what we're getting now, and the story is far more engrossing. Writing like that clearly isn't aimed at kids and I sincerely doubt that anyone is that twisted mentally that they would go to all the effort of writing a comic book, losing money on it's publication but continuing to do so anyway, AND financing a second book that does the same just to "mess with their fanbase" as you so ridiculously put it.

wow it would help to read what people have been talking about in this 5 page thread before asuming some ones talking about vl. 4 so that leads me to believe you have doubts about vol.4
He's talk about what Roseangelo and I have been talking about the love between laird and lawson and how they just are changing the hell out of mirages past comics. It's really hard to talk about things when you really dont know whats going on.
Spitfires choice of words may be crude but allot of what he says I've really started to believe about Peter Laird as of late and this is coming from some one who used to defend him constantly.

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Dude, comics aren't just for mature readers. TMNT has a wide fanbase, kids included. So naturally the comics aren't going to do anything that will turn off any part of the fanbase. The basic stories will all still be in tact, so I don't see the problem.

I strongly dissagree with you Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Mirage Vol. 1 is hardly for children to say so is foolish. And sort of insulting to the series core fanbase.
Also what the problem is the fact that he and lawson need to knock off the love afair allready and quit with the motoguzzy crap and changing things they never said before. That art in the old comics is 100% fine it does not need to be made modern and f'ed up with cheesey photoshop tools.

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Look, the TMNT belong to Peter Laird, they're not your's, I don't see your name on the book. If you got a problem with the changes, then here's asimple solution, shut the **** up and don't read it, but don't act like you have final say in anything. Stop accusing him of erasing the legacies of anyone and being a dick.

oh yeah I got this that proves otherwize!
hahahaha

[OldSchooler]

Dude, who said anything about censoring them? Why don't you wait until we actually see what he's done before firing you're mouth off. We've had one reprint with changes that are so slight it makes your insane ranting petty as! Has the story been affected? NO! The only story being affected by the reprints is the damned Cerebus issue, because they can't/don't want to include Cerebus! Big deal! It's not as though he's a reccuring character in the TMNT universe.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

So if people do it with movies it's bad, but with comic books it's totally okay to photoshop over them and add in new and lame dialog. That's great.

I didn't need to be there when it was created. You want to take **** from someone just because they made it then fine.

I'm not taking **** form anyone, I'm respecting the creators decison. You know what respect is right? You must not if you have the nerve to say somehting this stupid.

Your like the fans that accept the new Star Wars movies and the changes to the old ones because "Its his movie he can do what he wants with it" yeah he can do whatever the hell he wants with it but I don't need to take or accept it in the least. If I think what their doing is stupid I'm not going to pull punches just because of who he is.

I'm nat saying don't complain about it. Complain all you want, it's not like it;s gonna change anything. If you got a problem with the changes, fine, but your acting like TMNT is your property and Laird is some outsider. Grow the **** up.

Enjoy reading your censored little kid comic books, I'll track down the originals. I was holding out for these paper backs but when I found out what he was doing to them besides re-inking them I got pissed.

Censored!?! Show me some hard evidence before you start accusing him. I read the redone TMNT 1, it's perfectly fine. I see nothin out of place, the action wasn't neutered. Where the **** do you get the idea he's censoring them? Your just looking for any excuse to hate on the guy.

You think TMNT is laird? Let me tell you something, before he had TMNT in his pocket the comics were better. The series he didn't work on was one of the best and he dislikes it.

Once again, you make no sense. Granted the books are less gritty since Laird got full control(but even thats debatable), but the basic formula is still in tact. And he had every right to dislike the old show. Those assholes that worked on it took HIS creation, turned it into a complete joke, and now thats how the public expects TMNT to be, a joke onto itself. He has every right to dislkike it. If someone took one of my comic creations and did this, I wouldn't be a fan either. So yeah, TMNT is laird, not Spitfire. He and Eastman created it, Laird owns the rights, now he can do what he wants to do. And all he's doing is correcting some dialouge and retoning it. Big freaking deal.

TMNT is Eastman and Laird, but from the looks of things Eastman is who made it what it was.

You are so full of crap I'm surprised you don't burst. Eastman brought the edge, Laird brought the imagination.

Spitfire you are such a assclown.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

And all he's doing is correcting some dialouge

There is nothing to be corrected that's what people are getting pissed off about.

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Eastman brought the edge, Laird brought the imagination.

I have to disagree with you they both brought imagination to the table what Laird brought was Sci-fi to the mix. Many other make up the turtles btw not just Kevin and people many people helped in the success of this franchise and I'm not talking about the fans I'm talking about artists and this isn't directed at you it's directed at anyone who forgets that.

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

There is nothing to be corrected that's what people are getting pissed off about.

I have to disagree with you they both brought imagination to the table what Laird brought was Sci-fi to the mix. Many other make up the turtles btw not just Kevin and people many people helped in the success of this franchise and I'm not talking about the fans I'm talking about artists and this isn't directed at you it's directed at anyone who forgets that.

Well he's going back and corecting some spelling errors. Also, I think what he may be trying to do is make it so the dialouge fits the characters better. He could be fixing it so if when you read a characters dialouge, you could say "yeah thats what Mikey would say" or "yeah, I could definatley picture Don saying that".

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Well he's going back and corecting some spelling errors. Also, I think what he may be trying to do is make it so the dialouge fits the characters better. He could be fixing it so if when you read a characters dialouge, you could say "yeah thats what Mikey would say" or "yeah, I could definatley picture Don saying that".

spelling error correction is fine and all but changing what they said before doesn't lay with me to well man. He really needs to stop with the jim lawson love so much I mean reallu motoguzzy the tmnt would never say that in a million years...star trek ok maybe but also sort of doubtfull.
I know it's me being nit picky but seriously it bugs me to no end I just worried he's gonna do allot more I've allready got the old comics even all the reprints.
So I'm not that worried about it being changed because what I loved is being changed but it's sort of like people won't get to enjoy the same thing I did growing up. It ment allot to me because I didn't even know they existed untill my uncle showed me my first mirage turtle comic and said this comics for big turtle fans and you know that was a huge growing point in my life having that happen.
You're right to say let's wait and see but I'd like some one to seriously ask laird why? and to see if he has plans to change more. It would also be nice if he'd give a reason answere for once instead of coming off as imature and snarky.

[FearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

It would also be nice if he'd give a reason answere for once instead of coming off as imature and snarky.

Originally Posted by Putrescent

oh yeah I got this that proves otherwize!
hahahaha

Isn't that a little like the pot calling the kettle black?

[ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

spelling error correction is fine and all but changing what they said before doesn't lay with me to well man. He really needs to stop with the jim lawson love so much I mean reallu motoguzzy the tmnt would never say that in a million years...star trek ok maybe but also sort of doubtfull.
I know it's me being nit picky but seriously it bugs me to no end I just worried he's gonna do allot more I've allready got the old comics even all the reprints.
So I'm not that worried about it being changed because what I loved is being changed but it's sort of like people won't get to enjoy the same thing I did growing up. It ment allot to me because I didn't even know they existed untill my uncle showed me my first mirage turtle comic and said this comics for big turtle fans and you know that was a huge growing point in my life having that happen.
You're right to say let's wait and see but I'd like some one to seriously ask laird why? and to see if he has plans to change more. It would also be nice if he'd give a reason answere for once instead of coming off as imature and snarky.

I wish Laird would do an interview. With all the stuff going on, he's been a little quiet (Enter Mikey: "Yeah, a little TOO quiet).

I just wan't to hear his side.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Reira

Isn't that a little like the pot calling the kettle black?

no it's me telling you to get a sense of humor.

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

I wish Laird would do an interview. With all the stuff going on, he's been a little quiet (Enter Mikey: "Yeah, a little TOO quiet).

I just wan't to hear his side.

I agree I'd like to see why he's doing whats he's doing seriously not being rude or anything.
I do have allot of respect for Laird but I have to say it feels that allot of the time he does care about money more than the turtles. But that's only some times like take fast forward into consideration.

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

I do have allot of respect for Laird but I have to say it feels that allot of the time he does care about money more than the turtles. But that's only some times like take fast forward into consideration.

Also, the Volume 4 comics. He supposedly lost money on every issue after issue 1, but he still kept up with it until issue 28 (and hopefully he'll continue once things settle down). No, I can't believe he's very concerned about money at all. I think he genuinely loves the turtles and wants to tell stories about them that he likes. At least... that's what I choose to believe!

I think people only think that he's interested in just the money because he doesn't always do things the way they would like, but that really doesn't make any sense because if he was only interested in money he'd do exactly what fans want.

I just sorta jumped into this conversation so forgive me if that was a little bit off-topic.

[Spitfire]

I'm not taking **** form anyone, I'm respecting the creators decison. You know what respect is right? You must not if you have the nerve to say somehting this stupid.

I don't have to respect anything. If someone does something stupid I can say they did. If you accept that then that's your deal. I don't need to state again that I won't.

I'm nat saying don't complain about it. Complain all you want, it's not like it;s gonna change anything. If you got a problem with the changes, fine, but your acting like TMNT is your property and Laird is some outsider. Grow the **** up.

No I'm acting like he's doing something stupid and I'm stating my feelings about it. Something you obviously can't handle.

Censored!?! Show me some hard evidence before you start accusing him. I read the redone TMNT 1, it's perfectly fine. I see nothin out of place, the action wasn't neutered. Where the **** do you get the idea he's censoring them? Your just looking for any excuse to hate on the guy.

I was told their being watered down, which is why I posted in the first place. I don't need excuses to hate the guy. I don't even hate the guy. I just hate what he's doing.

Once again, you make no sense. Granted the books are less gritty since Laird got full control(but even thats debatable), but the basic formula is still in tact. And he had every right to dislike the old show. Those assholes that worked on it took HIS creation, turned it into a complete joke, and now thats how the public expects TMNT to be, a joke onto itself. He has every right to dislkike it. If someone took one of my comic creations and did this, I wouldn't be a fan either. So yeah, TMNT is laird, not Spitfire. He and Eastman created it, Laird owns the rights, now he can do what he wants to do. And all he's doing is correcting some dialouge and retoning it. Big freaking deal.

I'm talking about the Archie comics series not the old toon...

You are so full of crap I'm surprised you don't burst. Eastman brought the edge, Laird brought the imagination.

They both made it together.

Spitfire you are such a assclown.

Now we are name calling. And you had the nerve to tell me to grow up. Take your own advice.