Why did the Turtles never refer to each other as brothers?

[Scandia]

The male turtle who sired them. Or turtles- since it is not known if they are biological siblings.

But Splinter is the only parent they know. So I still think the "uncle" part is bizarro. As much as I love the OT, the best part about it (besides the colored bandannas and the kickass reporter April) would be the LAUGHS it gives me.

[Rooish]

Whether or not it seemed obvious that, in the OT, the Turtles were brothers (maybe I assumed that because I don't remember ever realising they were brothers), the cartoon seemed to adamantly avoid them calling each other that.

And my guess is that some writer who didn't know much about the canon had Leo call Splinter "Uncle Splinter."

[Time Mistress]

I always saw them as brothers in the old toon even though they didn't say it often it seemed obvious anyway, but I much prefer the ackowledgement of the family bond as seen in the new toon or movies.

[aabxx]

When a group of teenagers grow up together, they would consider themselves brothers whether they were technically or not. I have no doubt they do think of themselves as brothers. Anyway, they spend more time together than brothers usually do...

And actually, on some level they ARE brothers technically (and therefore, genetically) speaking. You just have to look at their blood relations. The turtles are what they are because they came in contact with Hamato Yoshi. Basically, you have to remember that the turtles have been "born" twice. The first time they had two parents (mother and father), and the second time, they got a new parent, Hamato Yoshi, who merged with the genetics provided from the first two parents.

So, they're all sons of Hamato Yoshi. That makes them brothers on some level. If we assume they originally were not blood-related, they could be half brothers now if the sum of Yoshi was half, or 33% brothers if all 3 parents got equal shares. Or it could be an entirely different number.

This basically also means that Hamato Yoshi has the right to call himself their father. BUT... here it gets even more twisted... Splinter is not 100% Hamato Yoshi anymore, as he's been merged with a rat. Splinter's genetics have probably changed so much that it's not so clearcut anymore that he's their technical father (on a test). He's become more like the son of Hamato Yoshi and a rat... so on a test, he'd be.... well I don't know genetics good enough to know what he'd be, but maybe he'd be closest to... an uncle? Or some sort of half brother to the turtles? Anyway, Splinter still considers himself to be Hamato Yoshi. And Hamato Yoshi is the technical father of the turtles. And... since he's raised them and everything... it's not exactly a far stretch to call him their father, eh... in anyway, they ARE blood related and something more than master and students.

Maybe because this is all really messed up, the turtles and Splinter don't want to use simple terms such as "brother" and "father" which don't really do them justice? Or maybe the turtles, being turtles, don't have any need for a concept of brotherhood? And maybe male rats don't really have a need for a concept of fatherhood?

[Revan]

^ Nice. I have never even thought of that but it makes sense.

[Jester]

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Jester

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

Not much, which is a big reason why the Fred Wolf cartoon's take on the origin/TMNT is pretty much apocryphal.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Jester

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (This was slightly ret-coned in the Archie universe.) In other words: The OT TMNT wouldn't have grow up together like the TMNT from all the other TMNT canons, but rather just been 4 teens living with their rat senci. (One wonders how much training the TMNT got before they faced the punks and Shredder.)

seriously people, just take that scene of the turtles mutating into their humanoid forms in the first episode with a grain of salt. Since it is spcifically said out right in the series that the turtles where babies when they where just turtles, and there is evidence in other episodes that support that time of several years passed from the time they where mutated.

Also aabxx very good point on the whole mutagent thing. Since the turtles where mutated into their current forms by being exposed to Yoshi's human DNA, it is just as good as being thier actual biolgical father, with the mutagent being the mother--er, so to speak. I wouldn't be supriced if the turtles actually shared his own DNA making them his own flesh and blood.

[Fledermaus]

Originally Posted by Jester

It could also be said that the OT TMNT were teenagers from the moment of their mutation, where as all the other TMNT were children and then had to grow up into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I seem to recall in Issue 1 Splinter said something like the turtles reached their "current" (fifteen-year-old) size within a year after being hit with the ooze. So how does that play into them starting off as young children?

[Sage Ninja]

we are talking about the old toon universe, not Mirage.

[Fledermaus]

Like I said -- off topic.

[Sage Ninja]

Well at any rate in the old toon, the turtles do show affection and concern for Splinter like a child would toward a parent in several cases in the show. One that comes to mind is their concern for Splinter in the Rat King episode where they refuse to fight him and their concern for his well being weh he gets baddly injured with that mediacal ray in one episode. So they show Splinter more than just common respect to a teacher in the old toon, they seevhim as a father figure figue even if they don't always stated every episode.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Fledermaus

Sorry if this is off-topic, but I seem to recall in Issue 1 Splinter said something like the turtles reached their "current" (fifteen-year-old) size within a year after being hit with the ooze. So how does that play into them starting off as young children?

Yes, but they also later learned to talk. I think the physical growth out did the mental growth. They did mature over the time they were taught by Splinter...in the comics.

[Cascadia]

I do not know if this is mentioned but in the Back to Egg episode.. Mikey said, "Our big brothers will fix you good."

[Fledermaus]

Originally Posted by Jester

Yes, but they also later learned to talk. I think the physical growth out did the mental growth. They did mature over the time they were taught by Splinter...in the comics.

So, within a year, the TMNT had fifteen year old bodies with infant brains?

...

Splinter = best single dad of all time.

[Coola Yagami]

Y'know, on that note, one thing the TMNT had in the old toon (at least in the first 5 episodes) was that innocence of not knowing how the world beyond the sewers works. In all other media, the TMNT movies, the new cartoon, the original comics, the TMNT knew all about the real world from the get-go.

In the first 5 episodes it seems the turtles have never been to the surface before they met April. They only knew about humans because 'they watch alot of tv', and asked April all sorts of questions while they first walked the streets of New York. Other things like Don not knowing how to use April's answering machine, or Raph literally using a cap-ful when he was using the bubble bath and stuff like that.

[Scandia]

I just wanted to say that compared to the NT, the OT feels mostly like a gag doujinshi. Like one featuring the characters in humorous parodies. The episodes are extremely episodic and have very little continuity. And Shredder just gets in the strangest of misadventurous situations.

But some of the innovations it introduced and have been carried on are cool.

Not to mention this is the absolute best incarnation of Donatello by far.

[Scandia]

It has been a whole day- hopefully I can double post.

But I found yet another instance of Splinter calling a Turtle his SON.

In the episode "Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe", Splinter tells Leonardo:

"By the power of my whim, you will fear nothing, MY SON".

Totally tubuloso moment.

[Ava Collier]

Originally Posted by aabxx

And maybe male rats don't really have a need for a concept of fatherhood?

Actually, rats are wonderful parents, the daddies just as much as the mommies.

Why did the Turtles never refer to each other as brothers?

I really enjoy reading through the observations, and opinions in this thread...now to push them aside, and get back to the basic question (for me anyway). In my opinion, the concept wasn't done away with entirely, but it was definately muted. I think perhaps to avoid awkward questions being flung at unsuspecting parents. We wouldn't want to force them to have to actually explain anything to their kids now would we?

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Y'know, on that note, one thing the TMNT had in the old toon (at least in the first 5 episodes) was that innocence of not knowing how the world beyond the sewers works. In all other media, the TMNT movies, the new cartoon, the original comics, the TMNT knew all about the real world from the get-go.

In the first 5 episodes it seems the turtles have never been to the surface before they met April. They only knew about humans because 'they watch alot of tv', and asked April all sorts of questions while they first walked the streets of New York. Other things like Don not knowing how to use April's answering machine, or Raph literally using a cap-ful when he was using the bubble bath and stuff like that.

I know I really loved how niave the turtles appeared in the first season of the show. They really had no clue and I thought it was a great thing to make them so unknowing of the world above them. The scene where they are all on the street for the first time in the trench coats and they keep asking April all these questions about everything is classic. And the top the whole scene off was the moment a completely socially challenged Leonardo takes his sword out and slices the table of a card jockey in the street. It was great! Leonardo is in no mood for gambling.

Although some of the turtles behavior was bizzar even if they hadn't ever been to the surfice. The way the trashed April's apartment was a bit much. It seemed more like they where just misbehaving rather than being genuianly ignorant of how things where on the surfice. Do you honestly believe that the turtles have never seen a telephone or a answering machine on TV and how it works before? Or that you don't fling cupcakes at a picture for target practice, I'm sure Splinter doesn't let the turtles fling food around for target practice, so why the two year old act Leonardo?

Its to bad the writters didn't write more of this transition of the turtles figuring out and adjusting to the above city life a bit more in season two. By season two the turtles seem to be well adjusted enough to run around the city during the day and go shopping and drive with out any trouble, so its like they adjusted over night.