Michaelangelo smart? Boy has he got the wrong turtle...

[triplexxx]

In every incarnation Mike is portrayed younger and younger with his easy going and humourous characteristics being converted into immaturity, and does younger siblings always portrayed as being dumb or hyper? Being the youngest in the group doesn't mean you can't be responciable and serious sometimes. What if Mike is the oldest instead of the youngest? The oldest can't be easy going and humourous? Look at CGI Mikey, he barely registered as a teenager in that movie more like a cute eight year old brother acting all helpless and niave. Does any one thing that's a litte at odds to how a fearsome ninja should be portrayed?

He may act that way at times, but in battle scenarios he's just as much willing to protect and risk his life for the others as they are willing to do for him.

[cup-mikey-gertha]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

my title is a sort of tongue-in-cheek dig at an actual quote from the orginal series that Raphael made in responce to some some one saying that Michaelangelo was smart. The irony of this remark is that it pretty much shows what people in general think of Michaelangelo, and what he has to deal with. No matter what he does that proves other wise, his friends think he's not as intellecually gifted as they are. Even though in the very episode where this quote is uttered by Raphael, Michaelangelo succusfully out manuvers a mad sciencetists traps and does it almost primarly by thinking around them. Practially for the other turtles to see and they still think he's dumb.

So the title I used was not me being direspectful toward Michaelangelo but just a ironic wording describing Michaelangelo, which turned out to be false.

Ah, OK. Got it, Sage-san. Do you know what ep was it from? Sure like to watch it again.

Originally Posted by NameGoesHere1066

I don't think Mike is the youngest in the old toon, I think they are all about the same age. Honestly I liked that because he was just a guy who took things more in stride than the others, like in the mirage comics, neighther old toon or Mirage Mike ever acted like the annoying yet cute younger sibling, they where their siblings equals not little brothers that needed extra protection.

Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.

Raph might have said "I have to diasagree on you with that, big brother," to Leo in the CGI movie, but it's kinda sort of as a big brother like Big Brother in the reality series. "Big brother" here is synonymous to someone with authority, but I don't think as "big brother in terms of age".

[Cipher]

I've really enjoyed Michelangelo, and found him fairly intellegent, in every version except the new cartoon. The old cartoon portrayed him as being very laid back, and in the Mirage comics he's always been sensitive and calm, but he was far from stupid in either one. The smartest version would be Image, I suppose, wherein Mike became an award-winning author.

I'm not sure why the new toon decided to have him be so hyperactive and irritating. Do kids seriously dig his constant and out-of-place one liners?

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by smile_seta

Do you know what ep was it from? Sure like to watch it again

"What's Michaelangelo Good For?" is the episodes name and it's in season four. Hope that helps. It's one of my favorites about OT Michaelangelo.

Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.

Except that he wasn't portrayed as the youngest in the group in the 1987 series. He had those personality characteristics because that was just him, it nothing to do with him being the youngest. And actually I would hesitate to say that Michaelangelo was forever happy-go-lucky in the old toon. Sometimes they showed him being depressed or upset in the series, so he wasn't completely a happy fool in that medium.

I've really enjoyed Michelangelo, and found him fairly intellegent, in every version except the new cartoon.

That is mostly the the regression of his character in FF that made him a total idiot. I'm not bashing Fast Foward so FF suporters don't assinate me, I'm just pointing out that they made Mikey look even more juvinile and foolish in FF than how he was in earlier seasons. Mikey may not have been LeatherHead intelligent but he was a completely stupid eaighther. What I liked about 2k3 Mikey was that there was some ambiguity to his intelligents that made not so clear of he was smart or dumb. He would be this total space cadit one minute and then make a completely uncanny observation that was right on the money and it would shock his brothers and the viewers that he could come up with an intelligent plan/observation, but but the same time it would be in character for Mikey since it wasn't far off to he normally thinks. No they took all that subltey away and he'ds just a bumbling moron. Any one no what I'm talking about?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Couldn't Archie be an own choose in the poll.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd be interested in seeing the results of said poll if the only votes placed were by those that have experienced all said versions of Michelangelo, and not just, "Oh, I've only seen the original cartoon and 4Kids Mike, so I'm going to vote for one of those two."

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.

Vol. 4 doesn't necessarily back down on the Mike-as-a-creative-mind angle, though much of Vol. 4 he's been pretty... tied up.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.

Exactly. Mike is my favorite character in the comics. People always point out how different Raph's old toon personality is from the comics. The difference between Mirage Mike and new toon Mike is even starker.

Vol. 4 doesn't necessarily back down on the Mike-as-a-creative-mind angle, though much of Vol. 4 he's been pretty... tied up.

He's at least laid back and sociable. The picnic scene where he made faces at the human child was very in character.

That is mostly the the regression of his character in FF that made him a total idiot. I'm not bashing Fast Foward so FF suporters don't assinate me, I'm just pointing out that they made Mikey look even more juvinile and foolish in FF than how he was in earlier seasons. Mikey may not have been LeatherHead intelligent but he was a completely stupid eaighther. What I liked about 2k3 Mikey was that there was some ambiguity to his intelligents that made not so clear of he was smart or dumb.

Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

[Darth Shredder]

Originally Posted by Cipher

I'm not sure why the new toon decided to have him be so hyperactive and irritating. Do kids seriously dig his constant and out-of-place one liners?

Well let's see. During NT's debut, my younger brother was about 9. A pretty normal kid (at the time...), too. Mikey wasn't the least bit entertaining to him.

I liken it to George Lucas implementing a bunch of slapstick into Star Wars. While he sees this as real humor, everyone else watching those scenes only sigh and shake their heads. I can imagine him sitting there giggling like a child going: "Oh yeah, they'll find silly droids bumping into one another and then slipping and falling really hilarial!!"

You know what kids really find funny? Not slapstick, so much as wacky weirdness. That's why Spongebob Squarepants is such a hit with the younger crowd.

[NameGoesHere1066]

Name-san, Mikey isn't really the youngest in the group. They are all of the same age. They were all baby turtles in the container, remember? He's just portrayed as the youngest because of his happy character and positivie disposition in life.

By why does the happy and positive one always labled as the "youngest" in the group? That's what I was getting at. You don't have to be youngest to be posetive and laid back. My youngest sibling is pretty damn dour and serious gloom and doom in personality and he's the baby. I just pointing out that by labling Mike the youngest they start taking away his dignified characteristics in favor of the sterotype of a hyper active brat, which is what he's turned into.

Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

agreed. From the very first episode of the new toon Mikey was characterized as that, nothing's cahnged. From the very first season Mikey has been nothing more than a filler character, with his only role to add ridculous commentary and be the insanely annoying little brother. He really does have any other role except that.

what's wrong with Mikey being the youngest in the group? It may make him look helpless and niave but it brings out the affectionate protective side of Leo, Don, and Raph and kind of serves to make the turtles look more closer to each other.

because normally the way it is treated in the show is that Mikey is such an attention whore that every one ignores him to the point that if he fell off a building or a bridge no one would notice or care until like...two weeks after the fact.

Michelangelo in Mirage Vol. 1, 2, 4 and Image 3. By far. Where Don is more of a technical thinker, Michelangelo is more of a creative thinker. In Vol. 1 we see him writing a story where he goes on a mystical journey in Feudal Japan, and Vol. 3 even had him becoming an accomplished -- and published -- writer.

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by NameGoesHere1066

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?

The ability to write creatively and eloquently does take a measure of intellegence. It's creativity vs. books smarts. You don't see Red Neck Joe banging out an award winning novel, after all.

I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to.

Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but some people will never be able to write well. However, anyone can learn advanced mathematics if they want to.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by NameGoesHere1066

ok I got to ask this since so many have pointed this out, but how does being able to write make you smart? I mean being able to write a book doesn't really make you smart because any one can write a book if they want to. Where is if you are a mathmatcian or sciencetist you really have to have knowledge and a specual kind of intellect to do be able to do that stuff. Why does every keep pointing out Mike's writing ability in the comics as an indication that he's smart?

Maybe not so smart... but Mikey in the new toon looks like someone that can't write 2 sentences without falling alseep, or at least nothing that isn't comicbook related. The fact that Mikey is able to acoomplish publishing a book in the comics would have shown that Mikey isn't all that airheaded if it were shown in the new show.

[Jelly Bean]

you mean like Mikey falling asleep on his book during the lost season when he was supposed to be reading them? Isn't what having ADHD is all about not being able to concentrate?

Now I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but some people will never be able to write well. However, anyone can learn advanced mathematics if they want to.

but doesn't being able to write have to with an innate skill than a learned one? Meaning it's eighther you have the abilty or you don't right? That has nothing to do with learning or intellect if you have it naturally than it's a talent, not anything to do with how smart you are. I've read the comics but does being creative writer ever come into play with how Mike thinks or stratgises in the book?

About Mikey's slap stickness in the show. I don't know if the writers are trying to make him funny or if they are deliberately making him irritating and dumb. What ever their motive, it's hurting him more than helping. Him acting the way he does makesit kind of hard to sympathise with him. Mikey confuses me, I don't like how he acts alot but I sort of feel sorry on how most fans can't stand him.

[Drtooth]

You know... I realized something. The one time I think Mikey really shined in the new series was when he was fighting Raph in the Battle Nexus. Why? The fact he was annoying the shell out of his opponent, causing him to get over-exerted, and act out of anger, making terrible moves.

Here's what I have to say.... why doesn't he do that all along? You know, for other villains? If he's gonna be annoying, make it for a cause... like he planned it all along.

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Bzzt. Wrong. While Fast Foward made excessive use of Mike's one-liners, he's been an irritating comic relief character from day one. I'll grant that it got worse over time, though.

well...I disagree on this one. Yes Mikey has always had the stupid one liners and been an irritating comic relief but he was more nuanced than that in thw brain department. It's very slight but in seasons one through 1-5 Mikey's problem seemed like he had a case of constipation of the mind and diarrea of the mouth, where as instead of thinking before he speaks he just comes out with ridiculous things because he's trying to be funny. And his antics where mostly attention getting devices so it made him appear stupid. But there where times in the show where he would think things through and come up with things that helped. off the top of my head, was him thinking of a way to defeat Ananda little mind controlled robots by spreading the attack out in several directions, or in Reality Check where he thouight of refiguring the distance of the bomb to only blow up the building instead of the whole city. See little things like that gave some ambiguity to his intellect that maybe he wasn't as retarded as he acts.

In FF, all that sublety is taken away, and I know I'm probably splitting hairs here but FF mikey acts like a complete meathead. The witers don't even give him the benifit of being even slightly alert smart. Him thinking that purple goop on his hotdog is relish and not questioning it? Come on how dumb do you have to be. He almost appears uneducated and clueless on general things.

but doesn't being able to write have to with an innate skill than a learned one? Meaning it's eighther you have the abilty or you don't right? That has nothing to do with learning or intellect if you have it naturally than it's a talent, not anything to do with how smart you are. I've read the comics but does being creative writer ever come into play with how Mike thinks or stratgises in the book?

Being able to write takes more than just that and having more skills than penmanship. Writing isn't all about putting your feelings down, you actually have to know about something in order to write it well, and writing has allot to do with stratigy and execution. So yeah, writing isn't a huge piece of cake like people make it out to be, and it's not just about the act of writing it self, theres much, much more to it than that.

From the very first episode of the new toon Mikey was characterized as that, nothing's cahnged. From the very first season Mikey has been nothing more than a filler character, with his only role to add ridculous commentary and be the insanely annoying little brother. He really does have any other role except that.

uh, you're forgetting that Mikey is one of the main characters, he's not just a filler character. if he wheren't the comic/show would be called "the three ninja turtles, plus that other turtle"

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

well...I disagree on this one. Yes Mikey has always had the stupid one liners and been an irritating comic relief but he was more nuanced than that in thw brain department. It's very slight but in seasons one through 1-5 Mikey's problem seemed like he had a case of constipation of the mind and diarrea of the mouth, where as instead of thinking before he speaks he just comes out with ridiculous things because he's trying to be funny. And his antics where mostly attention getting devices so it made him appear stupid. But there where times in the show where he would think things through and come up with things that helped. off the top of my head, was him thinking of a way to defeat Ananda little mind controlled robots by spreading the attack out in several directions, or in Reality Check where he thouight of refiguring the distance of the bomb to only blow up the building instead of the whole city. See little things like that gave some ambiguity to his intellect that maybe he wasn't as retarded as he acts.

In FF, all that sublety is taken away, and I know I'm probably splitting hairs here but FF mikey acts like a complete meathead. The witers don't even give him the benifit of being even slightly alert smart. Him thinking that purple goop on his hotdog is relish and not questioning it? Come on how dumb do you have to be. He almost appears uneducated and clueless on general things.



Being able to write takes more than just that and having more skills than penmanship. Writing isn't all about putting your feelings down, you actually have to know about something in order to write it well, and writing has allot to do with stratigy and execution. So yeah, writing isn't a huge piece of cake like people make it out to be, and it's not just about the act of writing it self, theres much, much more to it than that.



uh, you're forgetting that Mikey is one of the main characters, he's not just a filler character. if he wheren't the comic/show would be called "the three ninja turtles, plus that other turtle"

Well... not to bicker but... Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles could apply to at least 2 of em or even 5 and 6 of them.

Another moment Mikey was smart in the NT was one of the eps where Leo as going Kaarai-Emo with the slashed shell, Mikey was pointing out to everyone just how important Leo is to the team and how he feels pressured by the other turtles to keep them all together. I forgot how Mikey put it, but it was like saying Leo feels he had to be serious leader because he feels the others need him to be the serious leader to keep em together. Anyone got that speech down?

[NameGoesHere1066]

Originally Posted by Drtooth

You know... I realized something. The one time I think Mikey really shined in the new series was when he was fighting Raph in the Battle Nexus. Why? The fact he was annoying the shell out of his opponent, causing him to get over-exerted, and act out of anger, making terrible moves.

Here's what I have to say.... why doesn't he do that all along? You know, for other villains? If he's gonna be annoying, make it for a cause... like he planned it all along.

um, are you asking this question in jest or are you actually being serious here? Mikey is annoying because he's annoying theres no great plan or scheme on his part to deleberately exploit his talent of pissing people off and run them down, I doubt he even thinks like that. People react in aggravation to Mikey because thats just how he is, he's not actually calculating a responce from people. If he was he wouldn't end up on the recieving end of physical punishment so much and act "suprised" that he is getting hit.

Mikey's problem is that he runs his mouth and doesn't know when enough is enough and to shut the hell up, until it's too late. I keep thinking of the story arc where Don was kidnapped by the confideration to find out where the fugitoid was, and the others where teamed up with Triceratrons and he managed to piss one of them off into tackling him because he kept rubbing in their faces that he kicked their butts in the arena. If that was all planning on his part than it was stupid plan that got him slammed into the dirt.

And the reason he doesn't do this to villans is because he's eighther to scared to think of it and he also doesn't know anything about them to piss them off. The only reason Mikey won against Raph is because he knows him and knows how to push his buttons. Thats all, Mikey was afraid to fight Kluh and he was afraid to fight Raph, he used a cowards trick to win because he was to afraid fight Raph and knew he was going to lose to him.

[Rooish]

Awesome discussions going on in this thread ...

I'm having trouble deciding which version of Mike is the smartest, mostly because each version is quite different, and people can be smart in many different ways. Overall I think his intelligence is a bit above average. . He is not always the most aware and intuitive person (he seems a step behind the others when they are discussing serious things, and he sometimes gets himself into trouble for being careless). But his problem solving is pretty creative and unorthodox at times, and he seems to be either quite witty (with his one-liners), quite articulate (with his writing), or both, depending on the medium. He sometimes seems to surprise himself with his own problem-solving. I think this is because he lacks confidence. He also has some very decisive brothers who will make the decisions whether he joins in or not, so whether or not he is analyzing the situation and coming to smart conclusions, he has a tendency (at least in ... both cartoons and the movies) to stay quiet and let the others decide things. So it's a little harder to gauge his intelligence.

(For that matter, I sometimes have trouble determining how smart Raph is in relation to his brothers, because he is so impulsive and reactive. I think it's safe to say that both Leo and Don are smarter than average, although Leo wasn't really portrayed as smart in the old toon--just confident, moralistic, and decisive.)

Here's my opinion on some of the versions of Mike:

Comics: Mike is pretty quiet during key moments in the series. He's not much of a jokester, although he obviously likes to relax and/or have fun. But he stays pretty quiet when decisions need to be made. This implies that he either a) doesn't care enough to speak up, b) isn't smart enough to follow, or c) lacks the confidence to speak up. Since the others don't really pick on him in Mirage (from what I can tell, he is just sort of laid-back and nice and he gets along with the others fine), he doesn't have much reason to lack confidence. And since he is a writer, which implies that he can organize his thoughts well, and since he is a good fighter, which means he can think quickly, I don't think he has problems with comprehension. But because he sometimes gets himself into trouble, my guess is that he has fine comprehension and learning and problem solving, but only when he cares. He is smart, but not very in tune with his surroundings. I think he's just kind of stuck in his own head, having a good time, which allows him to be a writer and to be self-aware (which is why he lacks pretentiousness and angst). The cool thing about Mirage Mike, at least in the earlier Volumes, is that he could be thinking something totally brilliant, but he doesn't speak up so we'll never know. The reason I love Mirage Mike is that, no matter how smart he is, he has a huge heart. He's always seeing the bright side of things and cheering his brothers up, he is a caregiver (based on his interactions with Shadow and Klunk), and he sympathises with everybody (even the Rat King, who tied him up and left him to be eaten by rats. Leo throws a shuriken at the Rat King and Mike goes, "Leo, wait!" and then Don has to pull him away because he wants to go make sure the Rat King is okay. Unbelievable.)

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious. So he is more emotional, because he gets picked on and this hurts his confidence. Now, I think that Mike and Raph are actually pretty close in the old toon and Raph picks on Mike because he likes them, but Mike is a sensitive guy and he gets really upset and angry when he gets teased. So he comes across as much more emotional in the cartoon, and I think that's because he has more to react to. He's still really nice and caring, and he is pretty heroic when he has a cause that affects him. He is pretty smart, and, as in all other versions, when he focuses he can solve most problems, often in creative or unorthodox ways that surprise people. But, as in the Mirage version, he can be spacey, and he lacks self-confidence, and for both of these reasons, he can come across as less smart than he is. But I feel that I sort of "get" old toon Mike, and I can say that he is not stupid. However, he is still stuck in his own head, and this makes him emotional and clumsy sometimes.

Movies: He's witty and cracks funny jokes. This implies intelligence to me. He's a really warm and happy character, especially in the second and third movies, which implies emotional intelligence. He comes up with a few good ideas. But for the most part, he doesn't take himself or life very seriously, which means he leaves the deep thinking to the others (especially in the first movie). Like usual, Mike is a bit of an underachiever, but there's not much to suggest that he isn't smart. He just doesn't apply himself. This is sort of constantly how Mike is. Why bother trying when he could feel good about life and himself while functioning on a slightly more careless/carefree level? Anyway, the new movie, the CGI one, is kind of a mix of the other versions of Mike: he has the old toon's spaciness, the new toon's hyperactivity, and the live action movies' warmth and humour. Overall he is probably the dumbest Mike, but he wasn't even that dumb; he just sort of came across as child-like.

New Toon: Mikey (I hate how they always call him "Mikey" in this series, but whatever) is so obviously not stupid that I don't even know why people would think that. I think Mikey is hilariously witty in this series. Of course he's annoying as hell. I have a lot of problems with new toon Mikey, mostly because he's just kind of lost his heart. He's not very nice. He's attention-seeking and he's hyperactive. But he's very quick on the uptake. He plays dumb because it's easy. He underachieves and doesn't work on his fighting skills because it's easy. In the early RPG stats on Mike, it said he's a "hedonist and a sensualist," and this is obvious in all versions of Mike: he likes to be happy, he likes to be comfortable, he likes to have a good time. He is an underachiever and a bit lazy. Unfortunately, in the new toon, he has lost the caring nature he usually has, and he is also a child of the 90s and has a frighteningly horrible attention span. He has low confidence (he constantly doubts himself and is a wuss), and because he doesn't want to fail, he sets really low expectations for himself and doesn't try to fight, or to act smart, or to do anything but crack jokes. His family goes along with it because he's frustrating and because he doesn't try. It's easier for him to be useless than for him to try to be useful and to fail.

So I've thought about this way too hard, and I've ended up addressing most of Mike's personality traits besides his intelligence. I think Mike's intelligence doesn't really matter to the writers of most of the mediums. It doesn't even matter much to me, although I personally think he is at least average intelligence and definitely not dumb. Mike serves another purpose altogether, which is usually to add some "heart" to the story, either because he is a sweetheart (in most mediums) and/or because he appeals to people with low confidence or who are underachievers, and/or because he is funny.

I personally interpret Mike's intelligence (reasoning, problem solving) as fairly high; his wisdom (intuition, awareness, and knowledge) as below average--not because he can't learn but because he doesn't try very hard--and his emotional intelligence (self-awareness, empathy) as very high, except in the new toon. Overall I'd say the smartest version of Michelangelo is him in Mirage or the old cartoon. But that is just my opinion based on my interpretation of Michelangelo, and I think that usually the writers are careless enough that Mike is left open to a lot of interpretation.

[triplexxx]

I don't mean anything against anyone by this, but I don't care too much for it when Michaelangelo is referred to as an underachiever. Maybe in the training room it appears so, but out in the field, like every other, he contributes to a majority of their victories, and the field is what matters most. When it comes down to it, he's as loving to his family as any of the others in every universe, just shows it in his own way, like each of the others do; he serves the same purpose with his life as the others and is as willing to sacrafice himself for his family as much as the others.

[Jelly Bean]

Originally Posted by Rooish

Awesome discussions going on in this thread ...

I'm having trouble deciding which version of Mike is the smartest, mostly because each version is quite different, and people can be smart in many different ways. Overall I think his intelligence is a bit above average. . He is not always the most aware and intuitive person (he seems a step behind the others when they are discussing serious things, and he sometimes gets himself into trouble for being careless). But his problem solving is pretty creative and unorthodox at times, and he seems to be either quite witty (with his one-liners), quite articulate (with his writing), or both, depending on the medium. He sometimes seems to surprise himself with his own problem-solving. I think this is because he lacks confidence. He also has some very decisive brothers who will make the decisions whether he joins in or not, so whether or not he is analyzing the situation and coming to smart conclusions, he has a tendency (at least in ... both cartoons and the movies) to stay quiet and let the others decide things. So it's a little harder to gauge his intelligence.

Here's my opinion on some of the versions of Mike:

Comics: Mike is pretty quiet during key moments in the series. He's not much of a jokester, although he obviously likes to relax and/or have fun. But he stays pretty quiet when decisions need to be made. This implies that he either a) doesn't care enough to speak up, b) isn't smart enough to follow, or c) lacks the confidence to speak up. Since the others don't really pick on him in Mirage (from what I can tell, he is just sort of laid-back and nice and he gets along with the others fine), he doesn't have much reason to lack confidence. And since he is a writer, which implies that he can organize his thoughts well, and since he is a good fighter, which means he can think quickly, I don't think he has problems with comprehension. But because he sometimes gets himself into trouble, my guess is that he has fine comprehension and learning and problem solving, but only when he cares. He is smart, but not very in tune with his surroundings. I think he's just kind of stuck in his own head, having a good time, which allows him to be a writer and to be self-aware (which is why he lacks pretentiousness and angst). The cool thing about Mirage Mike, at least in the earlier Volumes, is that he could be thinking something totally brilliant, but he doesn't speak up so we'll never know. The reason I love Mirage Mike is that, no matter how smart he is, he has a huge heart. He's always seeing the bright side of things and cheering his brothers up, he is a caregiver (based on his interactions with Shadow and Klunk), and he sympathises with everybody (even the Rat King, who tied him up and left him to be eaten by rats. Leo throws a shuriken at the Rat King and Mike goes, "Leo, wait!" and then Don has to pull him away because he wants to go make sure the Rat King is okay. Unbelievable.)

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious. So he is more emotional, because he gets picked on and this hurts his confidence. Now, I think that Mike and Raph are actually pretty close in the old toon and Raph picks on Mike because he likes them, but Mike is a sensitive guy and he gets really upset and angry when he gets teased. So he comes across as much more emotional in the cartoon, and I think that's because he has more to react to. He's still really nice and caring, and he is pretty heroic when he has a cause that affects him. He is pretty smart, and, as in all other versions, when he focuses he can solve most problems, often in creative or unorthodox ways that surprise people. But, as in the Mirage version, he can be spacey, and he lacks self-confidence, and for both of these reasons, he can come across as less smart than he is. But I feel that I sort of "get" old toon Mike, and I can say that he is not stupid. However, he is still stuck in his own head, and this makes him emotional and clumsy sometimes.

New Toon: Mikey (I hate how they always call him "Mikey" in this series, but whatever) is so obviously not stupid that I don't even know why people would think that. I think Mikey is hilariously witty in this series. Of course he's annoying as hell. I have a lot of problems with new toon Mikey, mostly because he's just kind of lost his heart. He's not very nice. He's attention-seeking and he's hyperactive. But he's very quick on the uptake. He plays dumb because it's easy. He underachieves and doesn't work on his fighting skills because it's easy. In the early RPG stats on Mike, it said he's a "hedonist and a sensualist," and this is obvious in all versions of Mike: he likes to be happy, he likes to be comfortable, he likes to have a good time. He is an underachiever and a bit lazy. Unfortunately, in the new toon, he has lost the caring nature he usually has, and he is also a child of the 90s and has a frighteningly horrible attention span. He has low confidence (he constantly doubts himself and is a wuss), and because he doesn't want to fail, he sets really low expectations for himself and doesn't try to fight, or to act smart, or to do anything but crack jokes. His family goes along with it because he's frustrating and because he doesn't try. It's easier for him to be useless than for him to try to be useful and to fail.

I personally interpret Mike's intelligence (reasoning, problem solving) as fairly high; his wisdom (intuition, awareness, and knowledge) as below average--not because he can't learn but because he doesn't try very hard--and his emotional intelligence (self-awareness, empathy) as very high, except in the new toon. Overall I'd say the smartest version of Michelangelo is him in Mirage or the old cartoon. But that is just my opinion based on my interpretation of Michelangelo, and I think that usually the writers are careless enough that Mike is left open to a lot of interpretation.

hmm, very good essay You make some very good points. Although I'm not sure that Mikey isn't very perceptive like you seem to claim he is. From what I've seen in the new toon, is that Mikey is intutive and perceptive to a fault. I always thought that was the reason why Mikey gets started or frightened so easily because he's more sencetive to whats going on around him and it spooks him. Although I don't think he is playing dumb in the new series, and I don't find him all that witty eighther. But that's just my opinion, the reason I don't find him witty is because...well, he tries to hard. It's not natural, so his attemtps at one liners or jokes seem very contrived and forced, so he sounds stupid. And I think the times he is acting dumb are not fake and he's actually acting foolish. But that's just my impression.

Old Toon: He's very similar to Mirage, but he is more vocal. So he is more likely to voice a thought that sounds stupid, and it's just because he is a bit unaware and hasn't bothered to think something through. This leads him to be an easy target for bullying (especially from Raph), because his spaciness is much more obvious.

Actually I haven't really seen old toon Mikey voicing many stupid thoughts. Most of the time things or observations he makes seem relevent to whats going on and/or insightful. I think that's what I like about OT Mikey, I don't see him saying many off the wall things when something is going on and he seems to have alot of awarness of what's going on.

When it comes down to it, he's as loving to his family as any of the others in every universe, just shows it in his own way, like each of the others do; he serves the same purpose with his life as the others and is as willing to sacrafice himself for his family as much as the others.

I agree with this.

PS, why do you not like Mikey being called Mikey?

[Sage Ninja]

I would like to point out that in the most recent episode of the show in BTTS Mikey showed quite a bit of quick thinking and intelligence. On two major occassions Mikey used his smarts to manuver his way of out of trouble and to help the team. When they where all sent to the dino age and they where being over whelmed by some variant of a T-Rex (I think) Mikey solved the problem by having a triceratops scare away the dino by using a branch with some vegitation on it to entice it to do what he wanted.

And then later when the turtles had to get to a time period where there was more advanced technology to to over ride Viral, Mikey took the inciative and tricked Viral into sending them to a more technological place, which gave Donny what he needed to fix Serling and over come Viral. Mikey's resoucefulness and inciative reminded me of OT Michaelangelo when he would pull stuff like this to help every one.

I hope the writers make Mikey smarter than what he's been before, after this.