Old Toon Discussion Thread- Catwoman from Channel 6

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

I have the episode cued up on my laptop's DVD player, with a few screenshots. Apologies for the lesser quality, as I'm doing it in a hurry and my higher-quality DVD playing software is presently miffed at me.

First shot and onward, we see only one tiger, on-screen. And then April lets out said tiger and end scene. Here are a few shots.

Spoiler:

I always wondered if that zoo was supposed to be the same one that Shredder routinely broke into to steal the animals he used for mutation experiments: Rhino, Warthog, lion, gorilla, cows, and moles.

In "Planet of the Turtleoids," that "zoo" from which Shredder stole the animals was called the "City Wild Animal Park," even though one would think it would probably be a stand-in location for the Central Park Zoo.

[Sage Ninja]

I don't get what the big mystery is? I always assumed it was the same tiger.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Sage Ninja

I don't get what the big mystery is? I always assumed it was the same tiger.

The big thing is how it teleported itself from April's apartment to tangle with the Turtles back to April's side in the lair to attack Splinter.

[MikeandRaph87]

I say its the script writer's forgetfulness!

Jester,why don't you and Winters pair this up with Rebel Without A Fin?

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

I say its the script writer's forgetfulness!

Jester,why don't you and Winters pair this up with Rebel Without A Fin?

Eh, you can only get so much mileage out of a "OMG, April Gets Mutated!" session. I figured the most logical corresponding episodes to pair with this one would be "New York's Shiniest" (Richard Merwin's only other episode on this series) and "Wererats from Channel Six" (feels like a spiritual sequel in title and tone even though it's written by David Wise and never even references this episode). Both of those episodes we've already done. Come to think of it, many of the episodes we've recorded contain references to this episode, since it is one of the more pivotal ones from a continuity standpoint.

I guess I'd like to keep this one in the tank unless we could somehow get a hold of somebody like Mr. Merwin to shed some light on the creative process.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Eh, you can only get so much mileage out of a "OMG, April Gets Mutated!" session. I figured the most logical corresponding episodes to pair with this one would be "New York's Shiniest" (Richard Merwin's only other episode on this series) and "Wererats from Channel Six" (feels like a spiritual sequel in title and tone even though it's written by David Wise and never even references this episode). Both of those episodes we've already done. Come to think of it, many of the episodes we've recorded contain references to this episode, since it is one of the more pivotal ones from a continuity standpoint.

I guess I'd like to keep this one in the tank unless we could somehow get a hold of somebody like Mr. Merwin to shed some light on the creative process.

It seemed like a logical pairring.You can always do one and sometime later like a month do the other.The whole Ray Fillet debacle and the Ray character,comparison to the molecule switch to the DNA alteration gas and the fact April was not transformed with mutagen! She was however turned into a female turtle in an Archie special while her friend was a squirrel if I recall. Don't forget the topic of fights in the lair from CFCS. Either way you have options!

Since I have listened to each of the conversations thus far I ask what is the can for the future?

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I always wondered if that zoo was supposed to be the same one that Shredder routinely broke into to steal the animals he used for mutation experiments: Rhino, Warthog, lion, gorilla, cows, and moles.

In "Planet of the Turtleoids," that "zoo" from which Shredder stole the animals was called the "City Wild Animal Park," even though one would think it would probably be a stand-in location for the Central Park Zoo.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't animated Tokka and Rahzar also come from the same zoo where Groundchuck and Dirtbag came to be? I have to re-watch "Dirk Savage," again, but I do recall that, or I think I do. Either way, interesting how apparently one zoo became a nexus for all many of the animal mutants in the series.

Anyway, moving on somewhat, at least, the conditions for the cat mutation are self-explanatory or doesn't require much thinking. Conversely, a few episodes earlier we had Baxter's simliar mutation (or similarly inspired, as per the 50's Fly references in both episodes). While I could grasp that the energy could allow the fly to merge with Baxter, how that fusion somehow prevented him from being vaporized escapes me. Or it's about application of the energy and the machinery -- Baxter's case was meant to atomize him, whereas, April's was more re-arrange and re-assemble. Different machines, different uses of energy, etc.

Not that the show would or could explain the science in any real detail, but some examples are easier to deal or understand better than others. Or, I'm overthinking it, after all. Drat.

[MikeandRaph87]

KM,it was not specified if the mutagen that Shredder unleashed in the zoo was when Roadkill Rodney released the warthog and rhino or four years later when the zoo was returned to and Shredder had a lion and gorilla set for mutation when Bebop and Rocksteady released Groundchuck and Dirtbag and Kerma freeded the chained lion and gorilla. Theere is nothing within either episode to indicate that other animals were freed other that what was shown. So its your choice of which of the two instances stirred the mutation of Razhar and Tokka. Personally I choose the time Groundchuck and Dirtbag were einadvertingly mutated.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

KM,it was not specified if the mutagen that Shredder unleashed in the zoo was when Roadkill Rodney released the warthog and rhino or four years later when the zoo was returned to and Shredder had a lion and gorilla set for mutation when Bebop and Rocksteady released Groundchuck and Dirtbag and Kerma freeded the chained lion and gorilla. Theere is nothing within either episode to indicate that other animals were freed other that what was shown. So its your choice of which of the two instances stirred the mutation of Razhar and Tokka. Personally I choose the time Groundchuck and Dirtbag were einadvertingly mutated.

Actually, I was just thinking out loud and carrying out the thought. As technically speaking, it isn't completely unfeasible to purpose that it all could be from one zoo. Although, my general assumption was that different zoos were involved. And like you, I tend to infer Tokka and Rahzar being a later by-product from the same time and place with Groundchuck and Dirtbag's mutation. Forgive my speculative bent, as I tend to overthink such minor details and I sometimes end up with many side tangents.

Anyway, curious how Raph was forward enough to say Irma's name to her face during the apartment sequence, even though, on-screen, she hadn't said her name to the Turtles. They already knew who she was (i.e., "Case of the Killer Pizzas"), but it's either interesting or, frankly, Merwin or something forgetting about such details.

[MikeandRaph87]

:tlol

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Actually, I was just thinking out loud and carrying out the thought. As technically speaking, it isn't completely unfeasible to purpose that it all could be from one zoo. Although, my general assumption was that different zoos were involved. And like you, I tend to infer Tokka and Rahzar being a later by-product from the same time and place with Groundchuck and Dirtbag's mutation. Forgive my speculative bent, as I tend to overthink such minor details and I sometimes end up with many side tangents.

Anyway, curious how Raph was forward enough to say Irma's name to her face during the apartment sequence, even though, on-screen, she hadn't said her name to the Turtles. They already knew who she was (i.e., "Case of the Killer Pizzas"), but it's either interesting or, frankly, Merwin or something forgetting about such details.

I am the one that squirms when something in fiction does not make sense logical wise in my mind or for reasons of continuity so believe me I am the king of overthinkers. Like Jester would say "Just leave your brain in the other room"but I can't. Still despite that and a few embarassingly chessy episodes/moments this version will always be the best TMNT product ever...at least to me.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Actually, I was just thinking out loud and carrying out the thought. As technically speaking, it isn't completely unfeasible to purpose that it all could be from one zoo. Although, my general assumption was that different zoos were involved. And like you, I tend to infer Tokka and Rahzar being a later by-product from the same time and place with Groundchuck and Dirtbag's mutation. Forgive my speculative bent, as I tend to overthink such minor details and I sometimes end up with many side tangents.

Anyway, curious how Raph was forward enough to say Irma's name to her face during the apartment sequence, even though, on-screen, she hadn't said her name to the Turtles. They already knew who she was (i.e., "Case of the Killer Pizzas"), but it's either interesting or, frankly, Merwin or something forgetting about such details.

It's actually a nice creeping sub-plot during season 2, Irma befriending the TMNT as the episodes progress.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

It's actually a nice creeping sub-plot during season 2, Irma befriending the TMNT as the episodes progress.

Agreed. Irma's role in the episode really enhanced it. Which is why the episode's plotholes, glaring as they are, personally don't bother me, as it would under normal conditions. Certain plotholes in certain episodes could become major dealbreakers (the break in the Baxter narrative with "Landlord of the Flies"), yet not so here. Because some episodes can still be enjoyable or have merit, despite plothole X or Y.

Moving on, anyone have any thoughts to Clarke and Coleman's Bogie impression when confronted in the restaurant? A rather amusing bit, especially when Mike gave up. "Okay, so I can't do Bogie."

As for mikeandraph87's latest comment, I always defer to the MST3K mantra, "it's only a TV show, so I should just relax." Your way of saying it is just as nice, too.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Killer Moth

Agreed. Irma's role in the episode really enhanced it. Which is why the episode's plotholes, glaring as they are, personally don't bother me, as it would under normal conditions. Certain plotholes in certain episodes could become major dealbreakers (the break in the Baxter narrative with "Landlord of the Flies"), yet not so here. Because some episodes can still be enjoyable or have merit, despite plothole X or Y.

Moving on, anyone have any thoughts to Clarke and Coleman's Bogie impression when confronted in the restaurant? A rather amusing bit, especially when Mike gave up. "Okay, so I can't do Bogie."

As for mikeandraph87's latest comment, I always defer to the MST3K mantra, "it's only a TV show, so I should just relax." Your way of saying it is just as nice, too.

What was it with Baxter in "Landlord of the Flies"? I recall that episode, something with Baxter Stockman's personality?

Actually, it seems like "Return of the Technodrome" was written right after "Return of the Shredder", so that's probably why Irma acts as she does in "Return of the Technodrome".

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

What was it with Baxter in "Landlord of the Flies"? I recall that episode, something with Baxter Stockman's personality?

Actually, it seems like "Return of the Technodrome" was written right after "Return of the Shredder", so that's probably why Irma acts as she does in "Return of the Technodrome".

As I recall, wasn't his alien computer ally missing from that one? Because that seems like quite the omission. Either way, I was trying to find an instant example to my thesis (certain plotholes being dealbreakers in certain episodes).

I have to re-watch the "Return of Technodrome" episode, but the narrative seemed rather straight to me. In that one, April didn't do the denying or what she usually does when Irma asks her about the Turtles. (Which is ironic, because as the season began, Irma was rather dubious about the Turtles' existence. In turn, it's a contradiction, as the Turtles were becoming quite publicized since the original mini-series.) Unless you're picking up something that I'm missing, which is always possible.

You're not wrong, though, in that scripts can often be written, animated and aired than the writers' intended order or narrative flow. I haven't watched enough of the series to fully assert that or cite examples, yet it wouldn't be surprising, either.

[JakeSully]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

Its not often fights happen in the lair and the fact this one had two makes this episode awesome.

Is this episode what makes people think April is the cat's meow?

Definitely she was the cat's knees, literally! LOL, just like Cheetara, Felicia from Darkstalkers, Cleo from Heathcliff, Jenny from Bucky O'Hare, Pumraya or whatever catgirl in cartoons there is.

What do you think of my fanfiction story idea crossover of Batman TAS and TMNT so far? it be interesting to see Professor Milo and Dr. Dorain join forces with Shredder and Baxter as they turn April back into a catperson again yet Tygrus the man-cat falls for her but the Ninja Turtles need to cure her again fast as they fight off more mutants and must deal with Milo and Dorain before they can give April the special cure.

[cammy85]

The thing I didn't care for in "Landlord" was they had come up with a bug invasion plot that involved Baxter with no mention of how he got out of limbo, the absence of his computer friend who was nothing but a chip by then. and the fact that he let Shredder and Krang trick him again into thinking they'd return him to normal when he succeeded. The bug invasion was handled better in "Michaelangelo Meets Bugman Again", also in that season.

"Catwoman" is one of my favorite episodes even if it's because Irma officially joins the team and I'm a sucker for episodes where a character gets possessed/mutated. Also, in that episode, April found Shredder's secret hideout he'd been using for awhile without the Turtles finding it. Instead of having them find and wreck his lair, it was Bebop and Rocksteady who did it. :p

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by JakeSully

Definitely she was the cat's knees, literally! LOL, just like Cheetara, Felicia from Darkstalkers, Cleo from Heathcliff, Jenny from Bucky O'Hare, Pumraya or whatever catgirl in cartoons there is.

What do you think of my fanfiction story idea crossover of Batman TAS and TMNT so far? it be interesting to see Professor Milo and Dr. Dorain join forces with Shredder and Baxter as they turn April back into a catperson again yet Tygrus the man-cat falls for her but the Ninja Turtles need to cure her again fast as they fight off more mutants and must deal with Milo and Dorain before they can give April the special cure.

PM me or post a link to it on my wall I don't remember seeing the thread honestly. I confess that Bruce,Dick,and Barbara are second favorite hero team and would go nuts at the idea of them working with the Ninja Turtles.However,for a time Power Rangers was my second favorite and when I gotthe team up dream it was a spit in the face.Never looked at PR again after this epside but its more to it than that.

I am well versed on Bat villains but don't remember Dr. Dorain.Milo of course was the one behind Moon of Wolf in Batman#255 and Lupus condition. I wonder how that versus mutagen would work? There is also Hugo Strange and Ra's al Ghul who have created a serum to create monsterous beings out of men. That might inspire alternate plots for you.

Going back at the episode at hand,April being turned into a mutat should only be temporary but should be done just once per version. Like Winters said you can only take April as a mutant so far but it can be an interesting twist.

[Killer Moth]

Originally Posted by mikeandraph87

Going back at the episode at hand,April being turned into a mutat should only be temporary but should be done just once per version. Like Winters said you can only take April as a mutant so far but it can be an interesting twist.

Although, this episode would later set the trend of "we must mutate April into something, once per season." No wonder Cat April is quite popular -- as per her "Mutations" action figure and the main line, had Playmates opted to go there -- for she is the trendsetter.

For a different tangent, this episode apparently first showed Bebop and Rocksteady's penchant for Chinese takeout. (Which was also a plotpoint in Season 3's Turtle Terminator.) It also answered a question at that point in the series, as "what do some of the villains eat?" The protagonists' eating habits are established, ten times over, from the first episode onward, yet not so much with the antagonists until much later (unless one counts "Killer Pizzas" with Baxter commenting about the pizzas and Shredder hating anchovies).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by cammy85

The thing I didn't care for in "Landlord" was they had come up with a bug invasion plot that involved Baxter with no mention of how he got out of limbo, the absence of his computer friend who was nothing but a chip by then. and the fact that he let Shredder and Krang trick him again into thinking they'd return him to normal when he succeeded. The bug invasion was handled better in "Michaelangelo Meets Bugman Again", also in that season.

"Catwoman" is one of my favorite episodes even if it's because Irma officially joins the team and I'm a sucker for episodes where a character gets possessed/mutated. Also, in that episode, April found Shredder's secret hideout he'd been using for awhile without the Turtles finding it. Instead of having them find and wreck his lair, it was Bebop and Rocksteady who did it. :p

Baxter Stockman was probably teleported away fromt he Earth to another planet (remember he got stuck staying to long time within the dimensional portal beam last time), where he could reach the Earth by spacecraft or teleportation.

[cammy85]

Originally Posted by Swedenfan 1982

Baxter Stockman was probably teleported away fromt he Earth to another planet (remember he got stuck staying to long time within the dimensional portal beam last time), where he could reach the Earth by spacecraft or teleportation.

I know that's how he got stuck in "Son of the Return" and his return in "Revenge of the Fly", but I just meant that "Landlord of the Flies" is poorly made because Baxter is just there with no explanation of how he got out. Even in ""Revenge", Raphael and Krang mentioned how he was misplaced between dimensions when it was Donatello who got rid of him in "Landlord". Anyways...