Quick Forum Consensus. New Film - Like, Dislike, Neutral?

[thebrownranger]

Originally Posted by Leo656

con·sen·sus noun, often attributive \kən-ˈsen(t)-səs\
: a general agreement about something : an idea or opinion that is shared by all the people in a group

Sooo... you had a chat with all the voices in your head, and collectively agreed that you didn't like it?

Sorry, just struck me funny. I know what you meant.

[Matt2310]

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I really don't know why people hate this movie, if you ask me, it is a lot better than a lot of movies that many film critics praised and liked a lot. I usually find the types of films that they champion to be really terrible if not average.

[IndigoErth]

Doesn't matter if some people hate it. No movie appeals to all.

No critic, fan, non-fan, child, adult, man, woman, whoever are all going to feel the same.

My mother is among the generation of parents that had to put up with my generation's Turtlemania years ago. She saw it with me, I wasn't sure how that was going to go over, but she surprised me by liking it quite a bit. (And unlike me had the benefit of not knowing much about the Turtles so plot holes and odd deviations from the usual story wasn't all that obvious to her.)

[Darth Knuckles]

I am one who liked it too. Honestly, it did take me a second viewing to iron out everything story wise, but after I did that I liked it a lot.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

I really don't know why people hate this movie.

From Everything I Heard and Everything Said? I can make some Educated Guesses...

*The Turtles are secondary characters in their own Movie, and it's more like April O'Neil: The Movie (she's the one with a personal connection to the villain since it was her father killed, etc...and she even gets the last strike on the main villain)
*Lack of actual Martial Arts fights, and if shown it's terribly edited and/or shaky (a figure that Might be Raph might have thrown a container, the Subway sequence no one can tell who did what to who), except maybe the Shredder vs. Splinter and final fight at the end...
*When the Turtles do fight, they just get their butts kicked. Badly.
*Humor some people didn't care for (fart joke, the 'shell/tightening' joke, Mikey's constant pick-up lines for April, the Adrenaline scene, etc.)
*Lackluster/rickety Plot (stuff heals Splinter, and yet doesn't he already have mutagen stuff; ending straight out of Amazing Spider-Man)
*Lack of Personal connection between the Turtles/Splinter & the Villain for the Origin (no 'was dishonored and had to leave' like the 80's cartoon, no 'master was killed and my ear was cut' like the 1990 film, no 'my wife is killed, and the daughter I thought was dead is really with my enemy' like the new cartoon...just 'we were tests subjects and 'I read a book on Martial arts')
*No worthwhile action for the first half of the film...(subway, not able to see anything, bad if you're Epileptic)...so the short lair battle, the Snow chase, and the fight at the end...that's it.
*No actual character development for any of the Turtles, leading to a speech from Raph that made zero sense in this particular film because it had no basis, no build-up, and would have worked better if it was the Raph from somewhere else (2003 show, 2k12 show, even first movie)...but here it's almost 'out of the blue' other than a 10 second scene before where he says 'I'm gonna leave', that's it.
*No heart, and if it does it was pretty phony.
*Useless characters (for example, Karai being pointless)


So yeah...I can make an Educated Guess as to why some folks would hate this one...

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

From Everything I Heard and Everything Said? I can make some Educated Guesses...

*The Turtles are secondary characters in their own Movie, and it's more like April O'Neil: The Movie (she's the one with a personal connection to the villain since it was her father killed, etc...and she even gets the last strike on the main villain)
*Lack of actual Martial Arts fights, and if shown it's terribly edited and/or shaky (a figure that Might be Raph might have thrown a container, the Subway sequence no one can tell who did what to who), except maybe the Shredder vs. Splinter and final fight at the end...
*When the Turtles do fight, they just get their butts kicked. Badly.
*Humor some people didn't care for (fart joke, the 'shell/tightening' joke, Mikey's constant pick-up lines for April, the Adrenaline scene, etc.)
*Lackluster/rickety Plot (stuff heals Splinter, and yet doesn't he already have mutagen stuff; ending straight out of Amazing Spider-Man)
*Lack of Personal connection between the Turtles/Splinter & the Villain for the Origin (no 'was dishonored and had to leave' like the 80's cartoon, no 'master was killed and my ear was cut' like the 1990 film, no 'my wife is killed, and the daughter I thought was dead is really with my enemy' like the new cartoon...just 'we were tests subjects and 'I read a book on Martial arts')
*No worthwhile action for the first half of the film...(subway, not able to see anything, bad if you're Epileptic)...so the short lair battle, the Snow chase, and the fight at the end...that's it.
*No actual character development for any of the Turtles, leading to a speech from Raph that made zero sense in this particular film because it had no basis, no build-up, and would have worked better if it was the Raph from somewhere else (2003 show, 2k12 show, even first movie)...but here it's almost 'out of the blue' other than a 10 second scene before where he says 'I'm gonna leave', that's it.
*No heart, and if it does it was pretty phony.
*Useless characters (for example, Karai being pointless)


So yeah...I can make an Educated Guess as to why some folks would hate this one...

Yeah I have to agree with everything being said here.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

From Everything I Heard and Everything Said? I can make some Educated Guesses...

*The Turtles are secondary characters in their own Movie, and it's more like April O'Neil: The Movie she's the one with a personal connection to the villain since it was her father killed, etc...and she even gets the last strike on the main villain)
*Lack of actual Martial Arts fights, and if shown it's terribly edited and/or shaky (a figure that Might be Raph might have thrown a container, the Subway sequence no one can tell who did what to who), except maybe the Shredder vs. Splinter and final fight at the end...
*When the Turtles do fight, they just get their butts kicked. Badly.
*Humor some people didn't care for (fart joke, the 'shell/tightening' joke, Mikey's constant pick-up lines for April, the Adrenaline scene, etc.)
*Lackluster/rickety Plot (stuff heals Splinter, and yet doesn't he already have mutagen stuff; ending straight out of Amazing Spider-Man)
*Lack of Personal connection between the Turtles/Splinter & the Villain for the Origin (no 'was dishonored and had to leave' like the 80's cartoon, no 'master was killed and my ear was cut' like the 1990 film, no 'my wife is killed, and the daughter I thought was dead is really with my enemy' like the new cartoon...just 'we were tests subjects and 'I read a book on Martial arts')
*No worthwhile action for the first half of the film...(subway, not able to see anything, bad if you're Epileptic)...so the short lair battle, the Snow chase, and the fight at the end...that's it.
*No actual character development for any of the Turtles, leading to a speech from Raph that made zero sense in this particular film because it had no basis, no build-up, and would have worked better if it was the Raph from somewhere else (2003 show, 2k12 show, even first movie)...but here it's almost 'out of the blue' other than a 10 second scene before where he says 'I'm gonna leave', that's it.
*No heart, and if it does it was pretty phony.
*Useless characters (for example, Karai being pointless)


So yeah...I can make an Educated Guess as to why some folks would hate this one...

-It's not one of the deal breakers if you are someone who isn't into the ninja side of the turtles too much (I wasn't when I was growing up with them). They were not completely void of being ninja like, they had their silent moments. Their style of ninjitsu in the world they live in can be seen as some modified version of martial arts, maybe they didn't feel like fighting in ninjitsu mode.

-The turtles didn't always get their butt kicked, they never got beat up by the foot clan at least. They were shown beating up shredder when they played buck buck and they managed to defend them selves when shredder was trying to beat them up.

-Raph giving his speech made sense, the turtles are powerful enough to break something while holding on to it. Hell, earlier on we see leo holding on to a piece of the building, while he was he was crushing it with his grip. He could have fell to his death cause of his own strength. Raph giving his speech, it didn't just happen as soon as the movie started, there was a series of events that lead up to it.

-Eh, she played the part of the leader of the foot clan since shredder wasn't fulfilling that role for a while. If she was useless then she would have never taken an order, there wasn't any moment in the film where she said screw the foot clan, I'm done. She must be doing something right in some sense if shredder didn't kick her out of the foot clan for good.

-No heart? I dunno, I really don't know what people mean when they talk about a movie having or not having a heart, this too is subjective.

-The subway and and doc action bit makes sense, I mean the fighting was fast...splinter didn't want them to reveal themselves. If any of them had fought slow the cover would be blown, so them dishing out the pain had to be rapid.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

-The turtles are secondary characters for some of the movie, because there are other characters in the movie, the screen time has to be divided up. if you wanna see more of them then the budget has to be greater and/or there would have to be less characters/screen time for anyone who is not mike, don, leo, or raph..

No one's seeing the film for Will Arnett and Megan Fox, so give them less screen time. Why not have this new film from Raph's eyes, or Leo's Point of View, or Mikey's viewpoint? They can easily be 3-Dimensional characters with at least some character development (and to anyone reading, no I'm not saying it needs to be Shakespeare) that an audience can relate to...that's part of the reason they sustained for so many years.

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

-It's not one of the deal breakers if you are someone who isn't into the ninja side of the turtles too much (i wasn't when i was growing up with them). they were not completely void of being ninja like, they had their silent moments. their style of ninjitsu in the world they live in can be seen as some modified version of martial arts, maybe they didn't feel like fighting in a ninjitsu mode.

No one has ever mentioned any 'silent moments'. Throwing gigantic containers, smashing into a Humvee, making one flip over with a Bo, taking people down with just one punch or one kick (and they go flying off like Rag Dolls) isn't any interesting Martial Arts that I know of...it's more 'The Avengers/Super-Hero Comic Books' realm. For a film with the words 'Ninja' in its' Title, it shouldn't need Bulletproof & Super Hero Strength stuff for them to get by just to be 'different'.

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

--The turtles didn't always get their butt kicked, they never got beat up by the foot clan at least. they were shown beating up shredder when they played buck buck and they managed to defend them selves when shredder was trying to beat them up.

Never got beat up by the Foot? So, they were no threat, then... Even in the first film, The Foot was somewhat of a match. Enough of the Foot took Raph down and thrown through a skylight, but at least he took some down before that happened. And in the antique shop fight, the Turtles were doing well...but then they were overpowered and were losing the battle (until Casey joined up). So The Foot seems more of a threat in the first film while this they were pointless? (even with guns, since they are Bulletproof now). And from the sound of it, in the Raph vs. Shredder, Raph didn't even do much of anything against Shredder...not saying he had to beat Shredder and win all by himself. But not even a couple of successful Kicks/punches or anything to fight back against and have 'somewhat' of a chance?


A turtle throwing a container into soldiers, nothing 'Ninja' about that at all.

And having 'tons of flashing lights' (whether in a Subway or such) for your fight/action scene would be annoying, not interesting. And not many can remember even exactly who did what during that Subway scene. This isn't an independent film, it's a 'big budget, Popcorn/Summer Action movie.'

And not having much of memorable action scenes for half of your film? It's not like you have any folks going 'Wow, that Subway scene was So Cool! You remember that!" Not that many. It's always 'lair fight, Splinter & Shredder, Snow Chase, Ending Fight.' But nothing action-wise in the first half. That's a Pretty big fail for a big 'Popcorn Action flick'.

And from my understanding, you had the chance for the Turtles to have a big ole, giant fight with a bunch of folks before they get to Shredder...but instead they just 'go to the elevator'. So instead of a scene that Could have shown more Martial Arts/Fights to make folks happy...they just go to the elevator so they can dance (why the hell would someone like Raph dance? How is that Not out of character for him?)

How can the Turtles/Splinter have a personal connection to the villains, when it's just 'we were test subject pets, we grew up, and Splinter read the book'. There is nothing Personal between them and Shredder with that stuff?

So Raph telling them for 10 seconds "I'm going to leave", and saying a line 'why do you tell me what to do Leo' was all that they needed to do script-writing wise for Raph to give a big, humongous, 'Heart-Felt Speech' of how he felt he 'wasn't good enough and I Love You' without it being out of character for him (although, someone like him Dancing in an Elevator is another out of character thing as well, when the Hell would Raph ever Dance in an Elevator)? Unless there are quite a few films that someone on this forum didn't mention that Raph did or said during the movie...

A movie having no 'heart' means there is no Genuine/Sincere emotions that really make you feel. And if/when it tries, it comes off as either Phony or not being Earned at all.

On the other hand...the 1990 film, for example, Does have a lot of Heart to it. What with the campfire scene , Splinter's talk with Raph, or Raph & Leo hugging in the 1990 movie.

I'm just saying, it's very easy to understand why folks would hate this film. You're not wrong for loving it, but it's understandable why some folks don't.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Given what you perceive as heart when it comes to a movie, it sounds like there was plenty of heart in this one, the turtles were mostly serious through out the course of it. Pretty big fail? That is three pieces of action sequences, there is a total of five in the movie. That is just about all of them, unless you include the raph vs shredder fight. The foot were no threat? They were to the people at the subway area at least, they were helpless before the turtles came along. If the the foot clan wasn't a threat the turtles wouldn't even be fighting with them in the first place, all that would be going on is total peace between both parties.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

Given what you perceive as heart when it comes to a movie, it sounds like there was plenty of heart in this one. The turtles were mostly serious through out the course of it.

How do you figure? The only thing anyone ever talks about when dealing with 'emotions' was 'Raph's Speech', which some even say it wasn't earned at all and it came off as Phony & Fake, since the Raph in This Film wasn't even that bad/mean/nasty to his family at all.

[Jester]

Having Heart ≠ Serious
You can be funny and still have heart. It's a matter of demonstrating a character that you can relate to/fell for.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

Pretty big fail? that is 3 action pieces, there is a total of 5 in the movie. That is just about all of them.

And no memorable action scenes in it's first 45 minutes of a 90-some minute movie. Or, not even any action in it's first 45 minutes that anyone on here actually talks about or even Mentions. If they mention action, it's in the second half of the film.

So yeah, pretty big fail for a Big Budget, Summer Action Movie.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

It's only certain people who seemingly believe that the action during the first act is trash. Maybe you should make a thread specifically for them (unless you don't care too much), personally speaking, I am not concerned with the lack of attention they are getting. At all.

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

How do you figure? The only thing anyone ever talks about when dealing with 'emotions' was 'Raph's Speech', which some even say it wasn't earned at all and it came off as Phony & Fake, since the Raph in This Film wasn't even that bad/mean/nasty to his family at all.

How do I figure? Well what I got out of it (the movie) looks and sounds like it's identical to what I think is emotion.

[Xiewin]

(although, someone like him Dancing in an Elevator is another out of character thing as well, when the Hell would Raph ever Dance in an Elevator)? Unless there are quite a few films that someone on this forum didn't mention that Raph did or said during the movie...

I don't understand why it's a bad thing for Raph to be a bit light hearted and playful. He isn't always just an angry and rude character.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

I don't understand why it's a bad thing for Raph to be a bit light hearted and playful. He isn't always just an angry and rude character.

I agree. If he's always angry then he's not a three dimensional character.

BUT...that elevator scene was sooo stupid.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

I don't understand why it's a bad thing for Raph to be a bit light hearted and playful. He isn't always just an angry and rude character.

That I don't mind, but I guess it has to do with the context. Raphael dances in a scene in the Nick toon, but it's to gloat for winning a video game, something I see his character doing. I didn't mind much of Raph dancing in the elevator scene, believe it or not, my eyebrow raised at Leo twerking. A little dancing like they had in the movie, or in the 1990 flick is OK, but outright headbanging and twerking. Totally out of character.

Originally Posted by Jester

I agree. If he's always angry then he's not a three dimensional character.

BUT...that elevator scene was sooo stupid.

I have this sinking feeling, that they put that in the movie because MTV is probably going to have "best elevator moment" in their movie awards, and TMNT will be pitted against Captain America 2. Due to the fact that Paramount/Viacom own MTV, I expect the TMNT to win the award for some shameless advertisement.

[sgtfbomb]

I both liked it and disliked it. I felt like it had as many good elements as it did bad elements.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

I don't understand why it's a bad thing for Raph to be a bit light hearted and playful. He isn't always just an angry and rude character.

Because in one moment he is a 'gruff, Batman-voice, I want to Leave' type of character...then it's "I'm dancing in an elevator"?

If you're going to do that, then you need decent writing to either build that up, make that type of transition more smooth, or something called 'character development' as in 'a character changing throughout the course of a story in a manner that actual makes sense, whether logically or emotionally'.

If you had stuff of him being a prick to his brothers...then, when they are taken, he's hoping that his brothers' are OK and not hurt...then being glad that they're not harmed and safe....then you could transition into 'ok, I will loosen up and not be so moody'. It seems there is zero transitions for anybody in this film.

And just because it's a film 'produced by Michael Bay', doesn't mean it can't have stuff like that which is part of Basic Story Telling

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Because in one moment he is a 'gruff, Batman-voice, I want to Leave' type of character...then it's "I'm dancing in an elevator"?

If you're going to do that, then you need decent writing to either build that up, make that type of transition more smooth, or something called 'character development' as in 'a character changing throughout the course of a story in a manner that actual makes sense, whether logically or emotionally'.

If you had stuff of him being a prick to his brothers...then, when they are taken, he's hoping that his brothers' are OK and not hurt...then being glad that they're not harmed and safe....then you could transition into 'ok, I will loosen up and not be so moody'. It seems there is zero transitions for anybody in this film.

And just because it's a film 'produced by Michael Bay', doesn't mean it can't have stuff like that which is part of Basic Story Telling

And you obviously have no idea what They heck your talking about because its not like It went from "batman voice" then the next scene they're dancing lol. There a whole portion in between and While He doesn't Say "oh man i hope my brothera are ok", Or "well golly G im glad my brother are ok" Its a subtle change but it there Had you seen in them maybe you would not that but you haven't so it doesn't matter