Why do you all want the same movie over and over?

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'd be a big advocate of the reincarnation thing cinematically. It doesn't belong in something like Mirage, of course, but it's the one big thing from IDW I can absolutely rally behind as a "good idea" in a new iteration, particularly a cinematic one.

It just opens up so many doors. You could have a scene with Leonardo about to run at Oroku Saki, and suddenly have this sweeping flashback of Oroku Saki in Feudal Japan being watched by pre-Leo Leo reaping through townsfolk, or whatever. It has value.

But maybe I'm biased. I'm a big Highlander fan, and it would mean that live-action TMNT would get flashbacks. Like Highlander.

Hunh...

I like highlander too, they're great fun, but I think the mystical elements really hurt TMNT.
Reincarnation destroys the elegant chaos of their conception.

Maybe I'm biased, but I'd rather their animalia was used to satirize an 1980's NY.
The less human nature, the better. Maybe then we could finally escape all the "I love being a Turtle" self referential flat one liners.

It might be cool to see a crossover though... What happens if Leo receives a quickening? Does he enter the game?

Maybe that's tooooo weird...

[Powder]

Reincarnation angle aside, spirituality & mysticism is an integral part of TMNT. Gotta have at least a little of that in there with each iteration.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by Bry

I agree to a point. But you need to set the foundation properly first. Go hog wild in the sequels, absolutely, but the Yoshi/Saki rivalry is essential to everything that comes after it. If you mess that up, like the Bay moves did, then you stumbled on the very first step. Time to start over.

There is literally no reason you need to dedicate another whole movie to origin story. It can all be explained in pictures/voice over if the opening credits if it really needs to be told again.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

There is literally no reason you need to dedicate another whole movie to origin story. It can all be explained in pictures/voice over if the opening credits if it really needs to be told again.

The 2007 movie essentially did that. And I enjoyed that movie, it got the emotions of the family down pretty well overall even if the plot was pretty half-baked. But I don't think it really clicked as well as it should have, and trying to restart a property really needs to do that.

And really, the TMNT origin story just isn't as widely, immediately known as Spider-Man's or Batman's. It's only been properly told in a movie once, and that was 26 years ago. I'm not saying you need an entire movie to tell it, necessarily, but if they're starting over from square one, setting the foundation for a whole new series, and expecting it to work as an actual movie and not just a nostalgia trip for people who are already fans, they can't just skip or gloss over that part and expect it to work as well. You need to know who these characters are, where they came from, and what motivates them. And like it or not, that hinges on the Saki/Yoshi rivalry and the Shredder.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by snake

The 1990 film is absolutely perfect. Just go about updating that with some changes here and there and you have a great movie. The sequels can move into the weirder and different stuff once the first movie is out of the way

I don't agree. I watched the 1990 film for the first time recently and thought it was okay, but it has its flaws (Not much character development, bad pacing and the ending was anticlimactic). It was good for its time, but it doesn't hold up well, to me anyway. I think the 2007 film was much better, even though it had its own problems. I think a live-action origin film based on season one of the 2003 series up to the two-part episode The Shredder Strikes would be a good idea.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'd be a big advocate of the reincarnation thing cinematically. It doesn't belong in something like Mirage, of course, but it's the one big thing from IDW I can absolutely rally behind as a "good idea" in a new iteration, particularly a cinematic one.

It just opens up so many doors. You could have a scene with Leonardo about to run at Oroku Saki, and suddenly have this sweeping flashback of Oroku Saki in Feudal Japan being watched by pre-Leo Leo reaping through townsfolk, or whatever. It has value.

But maybe I'm biased. I'm a big Highlander fan, and it would mean that live-action TMNT would get flashbacks. Like Highlander.

Still haven't caught up on IDW, but the issues directly dealing with the reincarnation are my favorite of the series. It's such a great way to keep to the spirit of the past while still forging forward in one's own direction.

Which is what each incarnation should all have been doing all along.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by Bry

The 2007 movie essentially did that. And I enjoyed that movie, it got the emotions of the family down pretty well overall even if the plot was pretty half-baked. But I don't think it really clicked as well as it should have, and trying to restart a property really needs to do that.

And really, the TMNT origin story just isn't as widely, immediately known as Spider-Man's or Batman's. It's only been properly told in a movie once, and that was 26 years ago. I'm not saying you need an entire movie to tell it, necessarily, but if they're starting over from square one, setting the foundation for a whole new series, and expecting it to work as an actual movie and not just a nostalgia trip for people who are already fans, they can't just skip or gloss over that part and expect it to work as well. You need to know who these characters are, where they came from, and what motivates them. And like it or not, that hinges on the Saki/Yoshi rivalry and the Shredder.

you amuse because there will be one in this scenario that there will be sequels so it's ok to make yet another origin movie? Sequels are never guaranteed. Give me something NEW give me something FRESH. Not a "fresh" take on the old story. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Shredder has had his time to shine, the origin story has been done to death. When's Kronos' turn? Whens Savanti Romero's turn? When's the Rat Kings turn? Bishop, Hun & the purple dragons, Armaggon, Slash. ect. So many compelling characters and they're getting passed up for the same fricken thing over and over. It's ludicrous.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

When's Kronos' turn?

Lol, never.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Powder

Reincarnation angle aside, spirituality & mysticism is an integral part of TMNT. Gotta have at least a little of that in there with each iteration.

The campfire meditation in '90 was okay, but it really doesn't have to be included.

I like new things too, but some folks just wanna Madonna ****. It's like the people who have a new personality every family xmas; this year they're a make up specialist, next they're a rodeo clown, then they went to Bali to teach yoga, five weeks later they're a photographer...now they've been saved by Jesus, but two years earlier they were in a satanic cult.

31 flavors are great on their own, but all blended up, it's overkill.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by snake

The 1990 film is absolutely perfect. Just go about updating that with some changes here and there and you have a great movie. The sequels can move into the weirder and different stuff once the first movie is out of the way

The first film is OK start up. I would still like the second if it had kept the extraterrestrial origin of the ooze. Still more upset 25 years later after reading how close to happening that was.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

Give me something NEW give me something FRESH. Not a "fresh" take on the old story. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Shredder has had his time to shine, the origin story has been done to death. When's Kronos' turn? Whens Savanti Romero's turn? When's the Rat Kings turn? Bishop, Hun & the purple dragons, Armaggon, Slash. ect. So many compelling characters and they're getting passed up for the same fricken thing over and over. It's ludicrous.

Well they tried doing something fresh with TMNT III and IV but nobody watched them.

[Avenger]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Still haven't caught up on IDW, but the issues directly dealing with the reincarnation are my favorite of the series. It's such a great way to keep to the spirit of the past while still forging forward in one's own direction.

Which is what each incarnation should all have been doing all along.

For the TMNT fans (IDW or not), it would be OK to bring the reincarnation angle in a movie. I would love it, personnally.

For most of people, having 4 turtles and a rat being the reincarnations of a family in old Japan is as much ridiculous as learning ninjitsu in a book.

It would be considered as Deus Ex Machina. I know ninjitsu book is one, but people need to have a reason why THIS rat is Yoshi's reincarnation.

Or maybe I'm too bitter about public critics

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Anarchistguy

Problem is: to the causal movie watcher, you cant have a tmnt movie without shredder. If they make a shredder-less movie, the casuals and critics will tear it apart and said movie will lose money.

Let the 2007 film be a lesson...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Let the 2007 film be a lesson...

If the 2007 movie had been Foot Clan with Karai, or Stockman and Mousers, or Rat King, or Triceratons, or Bishop, or ANY preexisting lesser-yet-still-well-known villain, it would have done better.

But some film-original antagonist that wasn't hugely interesting...?

NOT a good way to relaunch/reboot your film series.

That's like trying to relaunch Fantastic Four using Mole Man as your primary antagonist.

[Chris]

Yeah, if they'd managed to give us the characterisations and family dynamics of the film and had Karai/The Foot or another classic villain as the primary antagonist the film would probably have done much better. The villains were the real weak link in that film.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

If the 2007 movie had been Foot Clan with Karai

Eh, it was. Though I get what you're saying. It would've been fine with just those elements in play at the forefront and not the bad Playstation 1 FMV-esque cavalcade of monster wackiness and pseudo lesson on Immortality that we got instead. In fact, it was very nearly subtitled "Immortal." Think I even had a poster of that.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/thes...BS093.jpg.html

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Eh, it was. Though I get what you're saying. It would've been fine with just those elements in play at the forefront and not the bad Playstation 1 FMV-esque cavalcade of monster wackiness and pseudo lesson on Immortality that we got instead. In fact, it was very nearly subtitled "Immortal." Think I even had a poster of that.

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/thes...BS093.jpg.html

Yeah, you know what I mean... more Foot, less Bigfoot.

"Immortal." I like that. Headcanon now. TMNT: Immortal.

[MikeandRaph87]

I do feel Shredder is necessary in a film. Its hard pressed to see a great film without him. As for an origin? Origins get dull and the only true origin was the 1990 film as said above.

CKD,send me the concept again that you referenced.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I do feel Shredder is necessary in a film. Its hard pressed to see a great film without him. As for an origin? Origins get dull and the only true origin was the 1990 film as said above.

CKD,send me the concept again that you referenced.

There are plenty of good TMNT stories that can and have been told without Oroku Saki. TMNT have the rogues gallery equivalent of Arkham Asylum.

Krang, Bishop, Bebop and Rocksteady, Old Hob, Karai, Pimiko, Foot Mystics, Leatherhead, Rat King, Slash, Baxter Stockman, Ch'rell...

You have to have a good Shredder story to begin with, but the sky's the limit after that.

[Galactus]

Isn't the "same movie over and over" exactly what we're getting from Platinum Dunes?

Out of the Shadows is basically the 2014 movie except worse. The plane crash and river chase is basically the snow chase except not as good, the battle with Robo-Krang on top of the Technodrome while Don deactivates a doomsday machine intercut with April and Vern fighting Karai is basically the battle with Robo-Shredder on top of the tower while Don deactivates a doomsday machine intercut with April and Vern fighting Sachs except not as good.

Now it's bizarre to describe any scene from the 2014 movie as 'good' but at least they had something whereas the retreads in this year's movie automatically lose impact because we've seen these things before but they also genuinely not as well done.

There's even specific scenes like the turtles using the sewer tunnels like a slide (I guess Splinter should be thankful none of his sons farted on him) or specific jokes like the hip hop Christmas album that are just outright recycled. If there's a third I have little doubt we'd seen Baxter fly chasing the turtles in some improbable location and the turtles battling Super Shredder in some high up location while Don programs a retro mutagen gun intercut with April and Vern trouncing Bebop and Rocksteady except not as good. I'll pass on that thank you.

As for whether a TMNT movie can be accepted without Shredder - well Out of the Shadows did have Shredder and we were (falsely) led to believe he'd have a bigger role and yet people still turned their noses up at it. I do believe a genuinely good movie featuring Shredder would build up the the general public's confidence in the same team moving on to other villains.