Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep22: "The Creeping Doom"

[Wildcat]

This episode kinda sums up my problems with the show recently. Mikey is literally just goof material now. I don't care that he "saved" Don. It was a quick fix. Oh ya the healing mantra WAS too deus ex machina. Sorry folks.

Don losing his intelligence is a good plot but why did he have to become an idiot? For more goofball humor, that's why. I get it. It's today's humor.

Why are so many things a reference? Godzilla, Jason, Body Snatchers, Terminator etc. It'd be fine if it were a lighthearted cartoon but it's meant to be serious yet a lot of things end up being homages to something else.

A reference should be a line/item/action done in passing. Not exact situations with an altered version of its namesake for legal-reasons. You can die in your nightmares...by the Dream Beavers.

I too dislike the paradox of the turtles saving Splinter. We really need THAT in this series?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

This episode kinda sums up my problems with the show recently. Mikey is literally just goof material now. I don't care that he "saved" Don. It was a quick fix. Oh ya the healing mantra WAS too deus ex machina. Sorry folks.

I figured it was good for physical injuries and life-threatening situations. I don't see how the healing mantra would've worked for Donnie's situation. The only other place I've seen something like that in a fictional series is Naruto and ironically, it was used to heal a poison victim, but they didn't do a mantra.

I too dislike the paradox of the turtles saving Splinter. We really need THAT in this series?

Third Harry Potter book did that. Harry ended up saving himself in the same way the Turtles saved Splinter. It's not a new concept...

[Wildcat]

I was being sarcastic about the healing mantra but the drink Mikey made was the same difference anyway. Deus Ex Machina.

I know the paradox is nothing new. The Terminator does it too. I just don't like it because it screws up storylines with silliness. I mean was this kind of nonsense needed in Tmnt? I don't find it interesting at all.

[Ashwolf]

Not sure if any1 else caught this but creep must be extremely stealthy cause while April was in the kitchen talking w splinter, creep was literally behind splinter and he didn't even realize

also thinking that as far as sensing other beings nearby goes, Leo is starting 2 surpass splinter

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I was being sarcastic about the healing mantra but the drink Mikey made was the same difference anyway. Deus Ex Machina.

I don't see it as Deus ex Machina. Mikey is the only turtle who spends time in the lab on a regular basis aside from Donnie.

Raph is only in the lab when he has reason to be which is whenever everyone else is in there.

Leo only goes into the lab to consult Donnie about things that generally regard the mission at hand and occasionally help out where he can.

Mikey is the only Turtle who actively hangs out with Donnie. And while he doesn't exactly grasp the entirety of what Donnie does. He is able to process and memorize what sort of things Donnie used. And then anything from there is trial and error.

He was able to remember what Donnie had told him during Parasitica.
Mikey making the super retromutagen was a fluke.
and the same thing was here with the antidote.

And while Mikey acts like a idiot much of the time, these moments plus the moments where Mikey was taking charge in Dimention X show that Mikey isn't an idiot so much as he is an Idiot Savant.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I don't see it as Deus ex Machina. Mikey is the only turtle who spends time in the lab on a regular basis aside from Donnie.

Raph is only in the lab when he has reason to be which is whenever everyone else is in there.

Leo only goes into the lab to consult Donnie about things that generally regard the mission at hand and occasionally help out where he can.

Yeah, this. Mikey always spends time with Donnie, I noticed so it's not too surprising he may pick up something even if he doesn't fully get it. Maybe it's more like, "Donnie mixed the red chemical with the green chemical" or something like that. Back in season 1, Donnie explained what DNA was to Mikey...until Donnie stopped himself wondering why he was even bothering. Later on in that ep, when Leo said "DNA?", Mikey repeated some of what Donnie said and then went on to say he'd explain it more later. Even in the ICK ep, Mikey told ICK that he'd use his "scientific know-how to return ICK back to normal.

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, maybe Mikey's just really into science or would like to be due to Donnie's influence. Why else would he hang around him so much in his lab? He probably has an actual genuine interest in it. In other words, it didn't come from out of no place.

Mikey is the only Turtle who actively hangs out with Donnie. And while he doesn't exactly grasp the entirety of what Donnie does. He is able to process and memorize what sort of things Donnie used. And then anything from there is trial and error.

He was able to remember what Donnie had told him during Parasitica.
Mikey making the super retromutagen was a fluke.
and the same thing was here with the antidote.

And while Mikey acts like a idiot much of the time, these moments plus the moments where Mikey was taking charge in Dimention X show that Mikey isn't an idiot so much as he is an Idiot Savant.

Nicely put. This is an interesting trait with him. Just think of how his character would be if he was more focused.

This is also why I no longer have a problem with the retromutagen ep anymore. If Mikey was just emulating what he saw Donnie doing and added in something extra (instinctive), I have no problem with that.

[Wildcat]

Mikey could pick up on the jist of things but it's still deus ex machina to me when his concoctions always conveniently work in one try.

Maybe Mikey should play with the worm creature...he'd probably end up curing Karai out of dumb luck.

[tylerdavies]

Originally Posted by OrangeNinja1987

I would give this episode a 6.5/10. It was very "meh".
The highlight was most definitely Dumb Donnie. Everything he did was hilarious and stuff I'd never thought I'd see Donnie do. What was the Pinky and the Brain reference that some people have said is in the episode and some have said it isn't?
"I like French Fries!!" should have been on that voting thing at the top. I was laughing so hard! Or maybe "Oooo...Squirrellll!"
I just wished Dumb Donnie was the sole conflict of the episode. It was funny, entertaining, and new, so naturally I wanted to see more of it. Because of the Creep/Snakeweed marriage, this Dumb Donnie scenario felt like a wasted idea that could have had so much more laughs. While it was nice to touch up on some old villains (not that I care for them, but the show needs to refresh its memory on the bad guys sometimes), think about what an episode with Dumb Donnie as the sole conflict would be like:

• The problem could have arose from something besides the default "Mikey Makes a Mistake" trope

• There would be full detail of Donnie's slow descent as the others rush to cure him before it's too late

• Tension builds as Donnie goes from merely saying dumb things and being absent-minded to actually becoming a danger to himself, while completely forgetting who his family is

• A plot twist as Donnie becomes so brain-dead that he starts to attack his family, literally "fighting without thinking"

• More time for Mikey to create an actual cure, intelligently reading Donnie's notes and taking some guesses, as the others hold back the relentless Donatello

• A final fight scene with Donnie, with April managing to calm him down with her powers while Mikey administers the cure

Overall, I find that idea much more interesting, with some tweaking. Fillers can and have been great.

I totally agree. Such a waste of a good idea. I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it but in the episode Leo says something about The Creep getting smarter while Donnie becomes dumber and he doesn't know why. Did they answer that in the episode? If they did I totally missed it.

If they wanted to bring The Creep back they should have just parodied Jason Takes Manhattan with the Creep running amok in New York capturing and turning people into plants. Then they could have the Creep come back again when the turtles are in space to parody Jason X. You know, because Ciro just loves to parody horror genres.

[TLP]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

This episode kinda sums up my problems with the show recently. Mikey is literally just goof material now. I don't care that he "saved" Don. It was a quick fix. Oh ya the healing mantra WAS too deus ex machina. Sorry folks.

Don losing his intelligence is a good plot but why did he have to become an idiot? For more goofball humor, that's why. I get it. It's today's humor.

Why are so many things a reference? Godzilla, Jason, Body Snatchers, Terminator etc. It'd be fine if it were a lighthearted cartoon but it's meant to be serious yet a lot of things end up being homages to something else.

A reference should be a line/item/action done in passing. Not exact situations with an altered version of its namesake for legal-reasons. You can die in your nightmares...by the Dream Beavers.

I too dislike the paradox of the turtles saving Splinter. We really need THAT in this series?

Agreed. Total Deux ex Machina.

[Vicky82]

Peter Di Cicco replied to this question on Tumblr.

anonymous asked:
A lot of the episodes this season have played up Mikey as a joke instead of a capable ninja and it's been souring the whole show for me. So MUCH thanks for an episode where he helps out and is fairly appreciated for it. And he was still funny! A++

peterdicicco answered:
Thanks! Mikey is really hard to write in a way. He’s such a free, spontaneous soul, and yeah he’s immature, but he’s still just as good a ninja as the others. I definitely do stupid things sometimes when I’m distracted or excited by something and I’m not paying attention, so I can relate to that. I still feel like I made him a little too silly at times, but he’s a fun-loving silly guy, and his brothers definitely appreciate him.

http://peterdicicco.tumblr.com/

[neatoman]

So was Whitman voicing April in this episode or was it someone else?

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So was Whitman voicing April in this episode or was it someone else?

Pretty sure it was Whitman.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by tylerdavies

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it but in the episode Leo says something about The Creep getting smarter while Donnie becomes dumber and he doesn't know why. Did they answer that in the episode? If they did I totally missed it.

Good question, I don't recall them ever answering that.

It really felt like something that should or would be answered though, so I'm wondering if they threw that in there to tie it in with a future episode related to that brain worm.


You know, if the stuff Donnie made does not affect everyone the same... if only Mikey was the one who'd come into contact with it. Given how they've written him and the discontent many have with it, it would be a missed opportunity to easily add a little maturity to him. I'm sure probably not the most interesting plot development if it boils down to his brothers thinking "Oh, well I guess that stuff made Mikey get his act together a little...well, I guess that's ok then," but it would be simple enough of an excuse to drop the more idiotic leanings, but still preserve the silly, fun loving, jokester side of him.

[TigerClaw]

I thought it was a good episode, great seeing the Shellraiser again.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Good question, I don't recall them ever answering that.

It really felt like something that should or would be answered though, so I'm wondering if they threw that in there to tie it in with a future episode related to that brain worm.

I'm going to just take an educated guess here since it wasn't explained.

Donnie wasn't affected by the serum splashing on him at first, it only started when The Creep came to be. Which clearly means The Creep had something to do with it. The Creep when in the lab absorbed the brain serum in the beaker, and which like in the premiere with being able to harness mutagen from Raph, Creep became able to extract the serum as well. Meaning that since Donnie had traces of the serum within him, The Creep was able to draw the serum from Donnie and extract his intellect in the process. Immediately afterwards, Donnie began to show signs of effects during the sparring session as well as in the lab. Then like when Creep started glowing during the second Dojo fight, that's to be believed as Creep drawing more knowledge from Donnie, after that The Creep gained more fighting ability and defeated Raph & Mikey when he countered their attacks, (Which if you remember, Donnie lost his knowledge to counter when sparring Raph) and soon after that fight and Creep disappeared. Donnie showed more signs of fading intellect.

I did begin to doubt that theory when I thought Creep was destroyed after the Shellraiser explosion and Donnie was still getting worse after it; but when they showed Creepweed, it meant he was still alive so the extraction was still happening.

Again, that's just a guess, but there doesn't seem to be any other logical reasoning.

[ranger_scout]

Who would have thought that Mikey's mixture would actually restore Donatello's intelligence? I guess it made sense for his intelligence to not come back right away because it slowly disappeared when the first liquid spilled on him. The highlight for me was when Donnie suddenly showed up and used the weed killer.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by JTH

I'm going to just take an educated guess here since it wasn't explained.

Donnie wasn't affected by the serum splashing on here at first, it only started when The Creep came to be. Which clearly means The Creep had something to do with it. The Creep when in the lab absorbed the brain serum in the beaker, and which like in the premiere with being able to harness mutagen from Raph, Creep became able to extract the serum as well. Meaning that since Donnie had traces of the serum within him, The Creep was able to draw the serum from Donnie and extract his intellect in the process. Immediately afterwards, Donnie began to show signs of effects during the sparring session as well as in the lab. Then like when Creep started glowing during the second Dojo fight, that's to be believed as Creep drawing more knowledge from Donnie, after that The Creep gained more fighting ability and defeated Raph & Mikey when he countered their attacks, (Which if you remember, Donnie lost his knowledge to counter when sparring Raph) and soon after that fight and Creep disappeared. Donnie showed more signs of fading intellect.

I did begin to doubt that theory when I thought Creep was destroyed after the Shellraiser explosion and Donnie was still getting worse after it; but when they showed Creepweed, it meant he was still alive so the extraction was still happening.

Again, that's just a guess, but there doesn't seem to be any other logical reasoning.

I could see that being answered in a later episode. That observation made my Leo was too relevant to ignore. Maybe Donnie will theorize on it for a later episode.

That aside, great theory.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by JTH

I'm going to just take an educated guess here since it wasn't explained.

Donnie wasn't affected by the serum splashing on him at first, it only started when The Creep came to be. Which clearly means The Creep had something to do with it. The Creep when in the lab absorbed the brain serum in the beaker, and which like in the premiere with being able to harness mutagen from Raph, Creep became able to extract the serum as well. Meaning that since Donnie had traces of the serum within him, The Creep was able to draw the serum from Donnie and extract his intellect in the process. Immediately afterwards, Donnie began to show signs of effects during the sparring session as well as in the lab. Then like when Creep started glowing during the second Dojo fight, that's to be believed as Creep drawing more knowledge from Donnie, after that The Creep gained more fighting ability and defeated Raph & Mikey when he countered their attacks, (Which if you remember, Donnie lost his knowledge to counter when sparring Raph) and soon after that fight and Creep disappeared. Donnie showed more signs of fading intellect.

I did begin to doubt that theory when I thought Creep was destroyed after the Shellraiser explosion and Donnie was still getting worse after it; but when they showed Creepweed, it meant he was still alive so the extraction was still happening.

Again, that's just a guess, but there doesn't seem to be any other logical reasoning.

This might be stupid on my part to say this but do you think that this could really benefited a clip of the camera zooming in on Donnie's and the Creep's cells showing that they exchange dna like how it's done in medical dramas or that one scene in Breaking Dawn when they were showing Bella's cells harding up to show that she was turning into a vampire?

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

This episode kinda sums up my problems with the show recently. Mikey is literally just goof material now. I don't care that he "saved" Don. It was a quick fix. Oh ya the healing mantra WAS too deus ex machina. Sorry folks.

Don losing his intelligence is a good plot but why did he have to become an idiot? For more goofball humor, that's why. I get it. It's today's humor.

Why are so many things a reference? Godzilla, Jason, Body Snatchers, Terminator etc. It'd be fine if it were a lighthearted cartoon but it's meant to be serious yet a lot of things end up being homages to something else.

A reference should be a line/item/action done in passing. Not exact situations with an altered version of its namesake for legal-reasons. You can die in your nightmares...by the Dream Beavers.

I too dislike the paradox of the turtles saving Splinter. We really need THAT in this series?

It seems like you dislike the key features of TMNT. Mikey's character was always intended to be goofball material, he is the lighthearted, silly, optimistic guy that can have a stroke of genius every once in awhile. Those references are also what TMNT is about too, the original comics and all tmnt variations poke fun at pop culture.

I actually really liked Donnie in this episode, he was so silly it made me giggle. To me it seems like you guys just absolutely hate your precious Donnie and Mikey to be adorable silly lumps. Their faces, their voices, and their lines are silly and adorable, I enjoyed it.

You guys need to stop being such debbie downers and lighten up and actually laugh once in awhile. TMNT is not some Game of Thrones episode with incest, murder, betrayal, and dragons. Get yer mind outta the gutter!

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by Werecat

It seems like you dislike the key features of TMNT. Mikey's character was always intended to be goofball material, he is the lighthearted, silly, optimistic guy that can have a stroke of genius every once in awhile. Those references are also what TMNT is about too, the original comics and all tmnt variations poke fun at pop culture.

I actually really liked Donnie in this episode, he was so silly it made me giggle. To me it seems like you guys just absolutely hate your precious Donnie and Mikey to be adorable silly lumps. Their faces, their voices, and their lines are silly and adorable, I enjoyed it.

You guys need to stop being such debbie downers and lighten up and actually laugh once in awhile. TMNT is not some Game of Thrones episode with incest, murder, betrayal, and dragons. Get yer mind outta the gutter!

Just because he's the light hearted member doesn't mean he should always be comic relief. Mikey has shown a creative side to his character in certain comic incarnations, in addition to a potential best warrior in some versions as well as emotional. I think for many they want a Michelangelo that isn't simply a goofball, even as the defining trait of the character. Even then, you can still have many things to make a character complex and overall memorable. After all, even when goofy, Mikey gets moments that makes him shine that people want more of, most know from the Leatherhead episodes.

And basing people for what they want doesn't make the situation better bud, people should be able to address what they like and don't, it is human nature. If we were all the same and liked the same stuff, how can we see improvements? It's pretty weird, then again I'm babbling like an idiot again...

To be honest on my thoughts of the episode, I was really hard on Mikey and bashed what he does again, but guess I reacted too quickly. I personally think the episode is flawed and of these four it is most certainly the weakest, but more could have been done.