Nickelodeon: "they want to focus on the '80s toon Turtles"

[CyberCubed]

Hamato Yoshi being Splinter was done simply because they didn't want to show Shredder kill Hamato Yoshi in a kids show.

I thought that was obvious. They avoided the obvious death from the comics by simply making Hamato Yoshi and Splinter one and the same.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Hamato Yoshi being Splinter was done simply because they didn't want to show Shredder kill Hamato Yoshi in a kids show.

I thought that was obvious. They avoided the obvious death from the comics by simply making Hamato Yoshi and Splinter one and the same.

It was obvious to me too, that is until I learned that making the Japanese into rodents was a time honored American racial slur.

Kind of one of those things that once you see, you can't unsee.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

You should get out into the internet more.

And I've no doubt that the Splinter shift was done to speed the story along, just as I've no doubt that a room full of white guys made that decision. A room full of white guys whose parents were alive when there were Internment Camps in the US.

You have no doubt? So you were either there when it happened, or you have a file on every white devil who worked on/made decisions for the show.

[METALHEAD]

but i like sexism and a lil bit of racism in my TMNT....

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It was obvious to me too, that is until I learned that making the Japanese into rodents was a time honored American racial slur.

Kind of one of those things that once you see, you can't unsee.

I can't find a single born-and-raised-in-Japan Japanese person today who is in their 20s or 30s who knows that "Jap" is a racial slur. I doubt they know about "rodent" either. In fact, I'd probably have to translate the word "rodent" for them to understand. My Japanese teacher actually used the word "Jap" as shorthand in sentences on the board and only us white people were looking around like, "Uhhhh..." about it. After we brought it up to her, she was like, "Oh! That's weird. Anyway..." and went on with life, still using "Jap" as short for "Japanese" when writing sentences on the board.

So why are you carrying it so close to you? It's obvious that this generation of Japanese people don't give a crap and they're the people who are slowly inheriting the country as older generations age, retire, and die.

And, really, why are you carrying this with you in a discussion about a children's show and the direction Nick wants to take the Turtles? It's not like it's relevant in this thread. Interesting (I didn't know "rodent" was any sort of slur for Japanese people), but definitely not the most appropriate place for it all. It isn't like Nick is looking to turn TMNT into some sort of anti-Japanese propoganda show in 2012.

[Mecha Cow]

I'm pretty sure the '80s cartoon was an American/Japanese co-production.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

And I've no doubt that the Splinter shift was done to speed the story along, just as I've no doubt that a room full of white guys made that decision. A room full of white guys whose parents were alive when there were Internment Camps in the US.

Agree. It even has a name in the media: "color-blindness". It means that the person in charge are not necessarily racists, but a little clueless about race themes. A little like what happened recently with Michael Bay and the twin robots in Transformers 2.

I'm usually against suddenly changing the race or personalities of the characters just to be PC, but I think that, when making an adaptation, the people in charge should educate themselves on why the original characters where created that way, and then decide if they should continue doing it just as it was or make some adjustments. April was a damsel in distress (and also a somewhat selfish person) probably because the OT writers were just used to see female characters be like that and not because they had have a secret agenda against women. But no matter the reason, the end result looks a little bad and a little ignorant.

In short, authors should write about what they know. I'm against introducing a "minority" character in a show just because, and specially if the people in charge don't know anything about that world. If you are going to have a, say, japanese character in your show, you should either be japanese, or lern about japanese people and culture beforehand, or change the nationality of the character to one you know. If not, the creators just end embarrasing themselves.

[METALHEAD]

Originally Posted by Mecha Cow

I'm pretty sure the '80s cartoon was an American/Japanese co-production.

it was. you can tell by the first 3 episodes...gawd! one would wonder if they kept up the same style in the whole series and kept the semi seriousness... the first 3 episodes were the best in the whole show, but thats just me.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

I can't find a single born-and-raised-in-Japan Japanese person today who is in their 20s or 30s who knows that "Jap" is a racial slur. I doubt they know about "rodent" either. In fact, I'd probably have to translate the word "rodent" for them to understand. My Japanese teacher actually used the word "Jap" as shorthand in sentences on the board and only us white people were looking around like, "Uhhhh..." about it. After we brought it up to her, she was like, "Oh! That's weird. Anyway..." and went on with life, still using "Jap" as short for "Japanese" when writing sentences on the board.

So why are you carrying it so close to you? It's obvious that this generation of Japanese people don't give a crap and they're the people who are slowly inheriting the country as older generations age, retire, and die.

And, really, why are you carrying this with you in a discussion about a children's show and the direction Nick wants to take the Turtles? It's not like it's relevant in this thread. Interesting (I didn't know "rodent" was any sort of slur for Japanese people), but definitely not the most appropriate place for it all. It isn't like Nick is looking to turn TMNT into some sort of anti-Japanese propoganda show in 2012.

Whether or not the people in your anecdote are offended by it, doesn't change the fact that it's racially sketchy to begin with.

This is a thread about how Nicktoons wants to return the newly bought Turtles property to it's original animated roots, and peoples reactions to that.

My reaction to that is that they should leave out the armchair racism.

Not really seeing how that's off topic.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Agree. It even has a name in the media: "color-blindness". It means that the person in charge are not necessarily racists, but a little clueless about race themes. A little like what happened recently with Michael Bay and the twin robots in Transformers 2.

I'm usually against suddenly changing the race or personalities of the characters just to be PC, but I think that, when making an adaptation, the people in charge should educate themselves on why the original characters where created that way, and then decide if they should continue doing it just as it was or make some adjustments. April was a damsel in distress (and also a somewhat selfish person) probably because the OT writers were just used to see female characters be like that and not because they had have a secret agenda against women. But no matter the reason, the end result looks a little bad and a little ignorant.

In short, authors should write about what they know. I'm against introducing a "minority" character in a show just because, and specially if the people in charge don't know anything about that world. If you are going to have a, say, japanese character in your show, you should either be japanese, or lern about japanese people and culture beforehand, or change the nationality of the character to one you know. If not, the creators just end embarrasing themselves.

Exactly.
I'm by no means saying that the people behind the OT are racist, but that their choices with the show are a bit suspect and dodgy. It's quite possible they didn't even notice it, which right there is really rather telling.

And yeah, tokenism doesn't do anyone any good either. Trust me when I say that I'm kind of against April being Ninjafied after a single montage. I don't need her to kick ass, I'd just like her to be competent and more than just a plot point.

[CyberCubed]

April being a damsel in distress was the norm for cartoons back then. Even though April always got herself captured, she still always did what she wanted and was never afraid of danger.

Besides, I always thought April learning to fight was a lame way to promote "female equalness" in the other versions.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

This is a thread about how Nicktoons wants to return the newly bought Turtles property to it's original animated roots, and peoples reactions to that.

My reaction to that is that they should leave out the armchair racism.

Hey, while we're at it, let's muse on other incredibly obvious things that they should leave out.

I think that Nick should definitely not re-design the Turtles to regularly wear tiaras. Is everyone with me on that? While we're at it, they better make the Turtles green. I know it's a bit of a stretch to ask for green skin Turtles, but just trust me on this one.

Really. Really? You're really worried that a modern children's show put out by a company who makes a lot of children's shows and aren't known as some sort of racist hate machine is going to put racism in TMNT? I think it's incredibly obvious what they mean by "80s TMNT" and if you can't figure it out, I'll give you a hint: it's not gonna be about Turtles in multi-colored KKK outfits shouting "Turtle Power! Turtle Power!" while burning a giant wooden foot in Shredder and Krang's front yard in the middle of the night.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

Hey, while we're at it, let's muse on other incredibly obvious things that they should leave out.

I think that Nick should definitely not re-design the Turtles to regularly wear tiaras. Is everyone with me on that? While we're at it, they better make the Turtles green. I know it's a bit of a stretch to ask for green skin Turtles, but just trust me on this one.

Really. Really? You're really worried that a modern children's show put out by a company who makes a lot of children's shows and aren't known as some sort of racist hate machine is going to put racism in TMNT? I think it's incredibly obvious what they mean by "80s TMNT" and if you can't figure it out, I'll give you a hint: it's not gonna be about Turtles in multi-colored KKK outfits shouting "Turtle Power! Turtle Power!" while burning a giant wooden foot in Shredder and Krang's front yard in the middle of the night.

Haven't seen the casting for the Live Action Avatar movie yet, have you?

Though...I have to admit, that comic was genius. I love the VG Cats.

[PAAATE]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

it's not gonna be about Turtles in multi-colored KKK outfits shouting "Turtle Power! Turtle Power!" while burning a giant wooden foot in Shredder and Krang's front yard in the middle of the night.

Too bad, that would've been fun

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I've already covered this. The only reason they stop enjoying something they otherwise loved is because society poisons them. Tastes don't change, people just bend to the flock.

**** you. I used to like the OT, but I can't stand it after season one nowadays, and that's not me bending to any flock whatsoever! It's just me realizing how poor the "plot" is, if you now want to call whatever they're having a plot.

But I don't mind the OT characters if they update them a little. It's not the ideas behind the show I don't like, it's the execution of those ideas that I think suck.

[Kendamu]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Haven't seen the casting for the Live Action Avatar movie yet, have you?

Yeah, yeah. Bunch'a White people fighting Asians or whatever. They did the same thing with Dragonball. I doubt it's part of some sort of "white power" propoganda. Hollywood isn't really part of the "racist heartland of America" or anything.

Though...I have to admit, that comic was genius. I love the VG Cats.

VG Cats! I was gonna be clever and post the comic, but I couldn't remember where to find it.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Goongasnootch

Yeah, yeah. Bunch'a White people fighting Asians or whatever. They did the same thing with Dragonball. I doubt it's part of some sort of "white power" propoganda. Hollywood isn't really part of the "racist heartland of America" or anything.

That's the thing, I don't believe any of this stuff is intentional, it's just...that these ideas are so firmly rooted in our media...yeah, okay now we're totally straying from the topic at hand.

Rest assured that this isn't something that keeps me up at night. It's just...the second or third thing that comes to mind when I think of the Original Toon. And since this was a thread about the potential re-animation of the old toon...yadda yadda yadda.


VG Cats! I was gonna be clever and post the comic, but I couldn't remember where to find it.[/QUOTE]

I've lost count of the number of times friends have sent that too me. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Love to see a show of hands of how many people in these forums get inundated with turtle stuff when it shows up in unlikely places. The XKCD Turtle Pie charts are another one...

But I digress.

[Ninjinister]

You guys do realize that 80-90% of the now innocent and acceptable gentle insults in the English language (especially American English), were once ethnic slurs? I know, it's terrible, but you can't honestly expect everyone who uses any of these terms to be aware of what they used to represent some 40-60 years ago.

And for the record, I can find not a single reference to "rodent" being referred to Japanese people.

[Lordmylar06]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Besides, I always thought April learning to fight was a lame way to promote "female equalness" in the other versions.

Not so true, think of it this way, if you were friends with Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, wouldn't you ask for a few martial arts pointers? I say given a long enough period of time hanging out with someone, a little of them rubs off on you. I just saw April learning to fight as character development.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by Lordmylar06

Not so true, think of it this way, if you were friends with Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee, wouldn't you ask for a few martial arts pointers? I say given a long enough period of time hanging out with someone, a little of them rubs off on you. I just saw April learning to fight as character development.

Eh. I always saw it as a cop-out. Can't figure out how to make April interesting and relevent? F*ck it, make her fight too! And be implausibly gifted!

Then again, that's only happened in what...TMNTA and the 2007 movie?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by PAAATE

**** you.

I'd be honoured ma'am, but I'm not looking for one night stands...especially no-chance stands.

I used to like the OT, but I can't stand it after season one nowadays, and that's not me bending to any flock whatsoever!

Keep telling yourself that.

It's just me realizing how poor the "plot" is, if you now want to call whatever they're having a plot.

The plot wasnt "poor". The comedy was slick and the episodes all had a CLEAR beggining, middle, end, and a morally sound resolution. The modern series? ANGST, ANGST, OH MY GODZ, ANNNNNGGZTZ....for a good few seasons there was less beggining, middle, and end and just "beggining, middle, beggining, middle, end, middle, beggining"..and the morality high-ground wasnt quite apt either.

Half if not most of it topped the modern series easily...That HAD a direction, true, but gradually minimised it . There was no difference by the end of it's run, yet I bet you ate it up. Once more, you can cut the hypocrisy with a knife.

You can rattle off the same old cliches the other half-wits can muster doll, but ultimately, I've heard it all before, and it's never convinced me. I'm a better fan for understanding the original series HAD a plot, strict character development, sparingly or otherwise (and does it really matter if they have a straight-forward arc? Batman: TAS had no direction to speak of, so the hypocrisy once more rears it's predictable head) and appreciating it's pros, for they far outweighed the cons. It remains the most memorable version of the TMNT and THAT is what eats you up the most.

I'll laugh HARD when you "realize" how poor the modern series really was...I don't consider it poor myself, but I can sure as f*ck emphasise it's cons to shatter any delusional fanboys high-horses if they happen to mount them. Both series are as good as the other.

Enjoy the diversity and stop boring me to death

It amazes me how some of these idiots post on a forum called THE TECHNODROME and expect thier blind haterade of the original series to somehow NOT be met with opposistion.