Talkback: Laird's 2k3 development notes! - Page 7

**Jester** · 09-19-2011, 11:48 AM

Actually I think Laird comes off as nit-picky and tactless.

*CyberCubed* · 09-19-2011, 03:59 PM

I've learned that the 4kids writers were awful. PL saved this show.

The scene of Hun being shocked that Shredder was an Utrom was one of my favorite scenes, and 4kids wanted Hun to stay loyal even after finding out?

**Jester** · 09-19-2011, 04:01 PM

I'll admit, that was one of the choices that worked. But Laird also floated the idea that the Turtles would no longer be Splinter's students opening the door for new students...including Hun. WTH!?

*oldmanwinters* · 09-19-2011, 04:40 PM

Regarding Laird's skewering of the writers. It's a tough call. Clearly the writers worked hard on their scripts/screenplay... they just didn't do a very good job thinking things through. Very little of the physical staging makes sense... characters often do things against type, and many action scenes are far too often resolved by sentences like "Bishop goes all out."

Laird, a guy who always puts some thought into his work, has shown the greatest tact when critiquing things he doesn't agree with and/or like. While all his complaints tend to be valid, the manner of the delivery is just about always over the top.

It's easy to see why he needed to get away from the franchise by the time 2009 came around.

Still, kudos to him for having the guts to post these email on line, even when it doesn't present himself in the best light. It's a nice bit of transparency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I'll admit, that was one of the choices that worked. But Laird also floated the idea that the Turtles would no longer be Splinter's students opening the door for new students...including Hun. WTH!?

Well, he described it as a "vision."

Spoiler:

*oldmanwinters* · 09-20-2011, 12:05 PM

New today...

Rat King!!!
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....25-200-re.html

*CyberCubed* · 09-20-2011, 12:27 PM

It's such a shame Rat King is so underused in this show. He really deserved a second full episode.

How odd that the old toon gives Rat King like 10 episodes and this series only one.

*BubblyShell22* · 09-20-2011, 02:06 PM

Yeah, I wanted to see Rat King more, too. He was someone who had a lot of promise.

*VaughnMichael* · 09-21-2011, 01:15 AM

It's almost like Peter never watched the old toon with comments about the flinging bricks and stuff.
Also he talks about Mikey being tied down by the ratking and mentions the slayers past on the table.
The way he talks is like he never even saw tales volume 1 # 4.

*CyberCubed* · 09-21-2011, 10:43 AM

LOL, PL called Krang an, "Utrom wanna-be" in his newest note:

Quote:

While this might have been an appropriate joke about that Utrom-wannabe "Krang" from the old TV show, it seems kind of weird in the current context, where the Utroms DO have bodies -- they're just not humanoid bodies. And while it is a minor point, I really don't want to give the rabid old show fans ANY encouragement to say "See! See! The Utroms ARE disembodied brains, just like Krang!"

LMAO.

**Jester** · 09-21-2011, 11:13 AM

More reason for me to really start wondering if my "well he is the co-creator of the series." respect for Peter Laird is misplaced. He seems like a real jerk.

*CyberCubed* · 09-21-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

More reason for me to really start wondering if my "well he is the co-creator of the series." respect for Peter Laird is misplaced. He seems like a real jerk.

Well had next to nothing to do with the old show, so it has nothing to do with him.

Toby Barrett · 09-21-2011, 11:28 AM

Doesn't mean he has to act that way however. He comes off as a bitter old grouch. =\

**Jester** · 09-21-2011, 11:33 AM

Exactly. The Fred Wolf series, like it or not, brought a lot of fans to the franchise. Fans who would eventually buy and read Mirage comic books, and watch the new, obviously more superior series. [/sarcasm]

*CyberCubed* · 09-21-2011, 11:44 AM

I think its because he believes most of the big old-cartoon fans never read the comics, and just view the franchise as that.

In a way its true, most casual TMNT fans never read the Mirage comics. Most of them never watched the 4kids cartoon either.

I think those of us who DID stick with the franchise, get into the comics and watch the 4kids show are a minority.

**Jester** · 09-21-2011, 11:49 AM

Yes, but did most casual fans really watch the 4Kids series (which you said...sorry.) or go so far as to write on Laird's blog that "Shredder is Krang?" I'm sure most "casual" fans of the Turtles don't even know the name Peter Laird. I ought to try that. Stop a person on the street with a TMNT shirt and hold up a picture of Kevin or Peter and ask, "Do you recognize these men?" and see how many right answers I get.

Peter Laird isn't calling out "casual fans" he's calling out fans who's Turtles of preference happen to be the Fred Wolf series Turtles, and that's a very douchie thing to do.

*Galactus* · 09-22-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Yes, but did most casual fans really watch the 4Kids series (which you said...sorry.) or go so far as to write on Laird's blog that "Shredder is Krang?" I'm sure most "casual" fans of the Turtles don't even know the name Peter Laird. I ought to try that. Stop a person on the street with a TMNT shirt and hold up a picture of Kevin or Peter and ask, "Do you recognize these men?" and see how many right answers I get.

The comics letters pages even up to volume 4 would occasionaly have letters along the lines of ..."where's Shredder and Krang? You should bring them back" and "why don't the turtles eat pizza and fight Bebop and Rocksteady anymore".

Not to mention the likes of "I watched the new show and you've turned Shredder into Krang" and the likes of "I was raised by the old show and love it but the new show sucks and you're raping my childhood" and "you're ruining the franchise" etc

Those sentiments are out there and Laird is aware of it and clearly doesn't appreciate it. Hell comments section pf his original blog section had people like Armaggon who wished him ill because of it.

Quote:

Peter Laird isn't calling out "casual fans" he's calling out fans who's Turtles of preference happen to be the Fred Wolf series Turtles, and that's a very douchie thing to do.

It's quite clear the Fred Wolf show isn't his thing at all so I would argue he's doing fans of the show a service with the occasional homages. Hell the guy even recomemnded a cameo of Vernon Fenwick in the 2k3 show just because he thought old toon fans would get a kick out of it.

Beyond that he just didn't want his show to be crap, is that so bad?

*Xav* · 09-22-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Well had next to nothing to do with the old show, so it has nothing to do with him.

How can you say that though? He helped create the main characters. Also he and Kevin still had to approve ever single script for the show.

*oldmanwinters* · 09-28-2011, 02:46 PM

Notes on "I, Monster" and "Grudge Match" are now up. These were two of my favorite eps from Season 4, mostly on account of the dramatic staging of the action and fight scenes. Animation was really sharp at points in Season 4.

I, Monster
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....4-re-tmnt.html

Grudge Match
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....004-first.html

*CyberCubed* · 09-28-2011, 10:01 PM

These are getting a bit repetitive to read, because all they are is just Peter Laird telling the 4kids writers that they're stupid and that their scripts suck.

Its actually kinda amusing.

**Jester** · 09-28-2011, 10:50 PM

Peter?

09-19-2011, 11:48 AM	#121
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	Actually I think Laird comes off as nit-picky and tactless. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-19-2011, 04:01 PM	#123
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	I'll admit, that was one of the choices that worked. But Laird also floated the idea that the Turtles would no longer be Splinter's students opening the door for new students...including Hun. WTH!? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-20-2011, 12:05 PM	#125
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,482	New today... Rat King!!! http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....25-200-re.html __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

09-20-2011, 02:06 PM	#127
BubblyShell22 Leo-holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,912	Yeah, I wanted to see Rat King more, too. He was someone who had a lot of promise. __________________ "A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One. "Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.

09-21-2011, 11:13 AM	#130
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	More reason for me to really start wondering if my "well he is the co-creator of the series." respect for Peter Laird is misplaced. He seems like a real jerk. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-19-2011, 03:59 PM	#122
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,819	I've learned that the 4kids writers were awful. PL saved this show. The scene of Hun being shocked that Shredder was an Utrom was one of my favorite scenes, and 4kids wanted Hun to stay loyal even after finding out?

09-20-2011, 12:27 PM	#126
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,819	It's such a shame Rat King is so underused in this show. He really deserved a second full episode. How odd that the old toon gives Rat King like 10 episodes and this series only one.

09-21-2011, 01:15 AM	#128
VaughnMichael I'm Baaaaaaccck! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,833	It's almost like Peter never watched the old toon with comments about the flinging bricks and stuff. Also he talks about Mikey being tied down by the ratking and mentions the slayers past on the table. The way he talks is like he never even saw tales volume 1 # 4.

09-21-2011, 11:28 AM	#132
Toby Barrett Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 946	Doesn't mean he has to act that way however. He comes off as a bitter old grouch. =\

09-21-2011, 11:33 AM	#133
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	Exactly. The Fred Wolf series, like it or not, brought a lot of fans to the franchise. Fans who would eventually buy and read Mirage comic books, and watch the new, obviously more superior series. [/sarcasm] __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-21-2011, 11:44 AM	#134
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,819	I think its because he believes most of the big old-cartoon fans never read the comics, and just view the franchise as that. In a way its true, most casual TMNT fans never read the Mirage comics. Most of them never watched the 4kids cartoon either. I think those of us who DID stick with the franchise, get into the comics and watch the 4kids show are a minority.

09-21-2011, 11:49 AM	#135
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	Yes, but did most casual fans really watch the 4Kids series (which you said...sorry.) or go so far as to write on Laird's blog that "Shredder is Krang?" I'm sure most "casual" fans of the Turtles don't even know the name Peter Laird. I ought to try that. Stop a person on the street with a TMNT shirt and hold up a picture of Kevin or Peter and ask, "Do you recognize these men?" and see how many right answers I get. Peter Laird isn't calling out "casual fans" he's calling out fans who's Turtles of preference happen to be the Fred Wolf series Turtles, and that's a very douchie thing to do. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

09-28-2011, 02:46 PM	#138
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 15,482	Notes on "I, Monster" and "Grudge Match" are now up. These were two of my favorite eps from Season 4, mostly on account of the dramatic staging of the action and fight scenes. Animation was really sharp at points in Season 4. I, Monster http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....4-re-tmnt.html Grudge Match http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....004-first.html __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

09-28-2011, 10:01 PM	#139
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,819	These are getting a bit repetitive to read, because all they are is just Peter Laird telling the 4kids writers that they're stupid and that their scripts suck. Its actually kinda amusing.

09-28-2011, 10:50 PM	#140
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,297	Peter? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656 Last edited by Jester; 09-28-2011 at 11:38 PM.