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Old 07-29-2021, 10:11 AM   #601
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And with regard to THAT whole situation... and just to again play Devil's Advocate... wasn't it corroborated that Sim met the girl at 14 but didn't sleep with her until she was in her 20s? I mean, it's "weird", but... we let other people off the hook for way worse than that.

David Bowie. Jimmy Page. Lori Mattix. People still love Bowie and Led Zeppelin. But Dave Sim is a piece of sh*t? Why, exactly?

At least in Sim's case, he "allegedly" waited until the girl was like 22. Bowie and Page were f*cking Mattix when she was 13 and 14 years old, and people love those guys. It's very strange why nobody "cancels" them even though we've all known about that sh*t for decades. It's not like they ever even denied it, and it's not like we all just found out about it yesterday.

I'm not much of a Dave Sim fan, but when I heard about that whole "controversy" I'm like... "Uh, okay?" It's f*cking bananas how some people are radioactive because they did a thing, but then other people do a WAY WORSE thing and people are like "Well, we like them more, so it's okay."

Unless it was proven that he also did other, worse sh*t I'm not aware of, in which case, disregard. I only know that people hate him because of the One Thing, and to me that One Thing was more of a "Who Cares?" compared to the sh*t other people do. People we still throw parades for as if they never did any of that sh*t.

It's weird. Like what Sim did was "weird" but I think people are being hypocritically hyperbolic about it. Unless he actually did screw the chick when she was a teenager, but as far as I know, he didn't.

((Shrug)) Bit of a weird tangent for a MOTU thread.

Pretty sure I read somewhere he did sleep with the girl prior to her being 18, made some sort of half apology about it and thats where the problem with him being cancelled comes from, whereas the other guys have not apologized for it. Still weird either way...

My ex-girlfriend's brother is my age, six months younger and his wife is 4 years younger than us but they were dating & shagging when she was still under age and no one bats an eye. They've only ever been with each other. It seems weird now that she was under age and he was legally an adult but no one cared at the time and nothing ever came of it then. They met, she was 16 and he was 20. 15 is the age of consent here in Maine. It is a bit odd. Another buddy, he is older and his kids are about 10-12 years younger than me (the oldest) and he actually tried to jail his daughters boyfriend because she was 15 & he was 5 or 6 years older than her and the state/police said there was nothing that could be done, she had consented.

And then there are folks who think a 30 year old dating a 40 year old is weird. Or a 20 year old and a 30 year old.

And then there is the political left which is certainly fine with pedophiles in general as they voted for one.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:34 AM   #602
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IMHO, there is a BIG difference in maturity, emotional or otherwise, between 20 and 30. 30 and 40 not as much. and i've lived those years. Hell, I had a problem with a senior in high school being interested in my freshman sister. and that's only 4 years. but, I'm an old phogey at heart so I go by classic standards.

My personal age range is ten years older, 5 years younger at this stage. butt, since we are talking about age here, don't want to wake up the sleeping monster that is cubed ;o)
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:36 AM   #603
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back to heman...I'm on to episode 3.

One of the big mysteries of this series : Why was it necessary to demote man at arms at all? Other than to give teela ANOTHER big emotional fall out? it's pretty clear he's not much older than he was before, AND he's still got the skills. not quite sure where this episode is going to go, as they basically give him the luke skywalker, last jedi treatment. but at least here he's still helping people and part of the population.
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Old 07-29-2021, 12:05 PM   #604
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back to heman...I'm on to episode 3.

One of the big mysteries of this series : Why was it necessary to demote man at arms at all? Other than to give teela ANOTHER big emotional fall out? it's pretty clear he's not much older than he was before, AND he's still got the skills. not quite sure where this episode is going to go, as they basically give him the luke skywalker, last jedi treatment. but at least here he's still helping people and part of the population.
Because it was a woke servicing plot contrivance.

The show isn't by any means the worst offender in the fresh history of woke $#!( that we try to smooth over by claiming these things are "the world outside our window". MOTU R is not the poster child for woke $#!( by any means. King Grayskull is cool. Having a "develop Teela" plotline is cool. The animation is cool.

But it's simply more granularization amidst an era where people are recognizing the forest for the trees and are tired of it. None of this entire "woke $#!(" was ever about inclusion. It was about reducing the footprint of anything considered "normal" and replacing that foot print with one of a different shape in favor of the proposed new "normal".

People at large aren't entirely angry that there isn't enough "He-Man" in a "MOTU" show. They are angry that this is more of the same social pattern, and they associate all of it with all of that. Woke $#!( culture, the BLM $#!(, the hood rats on the f'n streets burning flags and doing whatever. The white suburban loud mouths who have no black friends but go to BLM rallies in masks. It's the same association. It's all from the same root of a twisted, gnarled tree. That's why people are pissed, but we are talking about He-Man here. I'm sure there's some homogenization in the fandom type and you've got a group that feels this way, but they either can't or won't articulate their disgust appropriately, so they hide behind the harder-to-deny observation that there isn't enough He-Man in the show. Happens all the time.

But no one who is unbiased towards the franchise is going to sit there and say that the show's queer bating isn't woke $#!(, or that tranny Teela isn't woke $#!(, or that King Grayskull (cool or otherwise) isn't woke $#!(, or that blonde-haired white-dude He-Man's minimized role isn't woke $#!(, or that Man-At-Arms begging Teela for forgiveness over perceived slights isn't woke $#!(, or that counter-culture Orco's woe-is-me speech against 'normalcy' isn't woke $#!(.

The whole thing is a polished eyecandy to present woke $#!(. Even if He-Man comes back in the last episode to "be the hero", it's clearly still a way to have 10 or so episodes of an established property be woke $#!( but make it a soft-call for deniars to play the wait-and-see-card.

MOTU R looks pretty and it's not the worst woke $#!( offender from the last 6 years or so, but it's still woke $#!(. And Kevin Smith is right - we have to 'deal with it' so hand over the cash-by-clicks or don't either by pirating this woke $#!( or simply leaving it behind completely.

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Old 07-29-2021, 11:48 PM   #605
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Not surprised to see this thing but . Mattel is known for burning their flagships.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:28 AM   #606
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Not surprised to see this thing but . Mattel is known for buring their flagships.
No reboot of ANYTHING in the last ten years had as much work or care put into it. Objective fact.

People can pretend that Mattel and Netflix just threw this thing together by going down the "SJW Agenda Checklist" for the sole purpose of pissing off "real fans" if they want to... but that isn't what happened. What happened was, they made something they figured "real fans" would be able to like overall even if they didn't love every single creative choice, and instead they sorely underestimated people's need to rage uncontrollably when the thing they get wasn't Exactly The Thing They Wanted.

I think they knew some people wouldn't like Teela's redesign, or the lack of He-Man onscreen. I just don't think they expected for people to be SO whiny about it or to project SO much into it. If this same exact show came out five years ago, or five years from now, people would be saying it was awesome... because they wouldn't be looking at it through the "Everything Is Woke Sh*t Now" lens. Some individuals still wouldn't love every single creative choice - I certainly don't, there's several things I would have done differently - but they wouldn't be screaming bloody murder about it.

It's a good series that came out at an unfortunate time, culturally. Just one more reason to hate "The Last Jedi" and Disney. THEY started this sh*t, and now everything gets roasted for their sins. Female protagonist? "Woke sh*t". Not enough T&A? "Woke sh*t." Male character takes a knee for an hour or two? "Woke sh*t". All because Disney had to f*ck up Star Wars. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but thanks to F*cking Disney every "cigar" automatically symbolizes "a dick in the ass of the patriarchy". It's stupid. BUT that's how people choose to look at Every Single Thing, now.

If Filmation did this exact same arc back in 1985, people would've loved it. It would've gone over huge. Granted, they probably wouldn't have given Teela that stupid haircut, but that's got as much to do with not wanting to draw new animation cels than anything else. Everything else about the story could be the same as it is, but Back Then nobody would've been accusing them of Evil Intentions.

And in a few years, when people get over all of this Culture War nonsense, I'm sure a lot of people are going to revisit this series and just watch it as a show and not a Political Statement. At which point, they're going to wonder what they were ever so mad about in the first place. Because that's how these things ALWAYS go.

But I doubt that Mattel had any intention of "burying" anything; they just gave their audience way too much credit by expecting them not to throw tantrums over nonsense. With "Masterverse" waves planned out through next year, a reboot coming in the Fall, and Origins still rolling along, I think the last thing on their minds was in any way sabotaging the brand. They just incorrectly assumed that a bunch of 40-year olds who still watch cartoons would be a BIT more mature than they actually are.

WHY they'd ever expect a bunch of 40-year olds who watch cartoons to be "mature", I don't know. I could've told them otherwise, but as a general rule nobody listens to me, even though I'm constantly proven right in the end. Their loss.

Meanwhile, at their recent conference call, Mattel announced that their quarterly profits are up yet again, mostly driven by Barbie and - guess what? - MOTU. The Origins line continues to sell huge, pre-orders on the Masterverse line are high... the CGI reboot is the one variable but that's expected to do well with "the kids", so we'll see how it goes.

Most interesting of all, Mattel just registered trademarks for around 30 characters from both MOTU and She-Ra, most likely for the Origins line. Which means they're preparing for the possibility of at least 6 more Waves of Origins, which would cover the next year-plus.

These are not the actions of a company that thinks their brand is on the downswing. Rather the opposite; they just keep pouring more money into it, because it keeps outperforming expectations.

Obviously this "resurgence" isn't going to last forever, but I think MOTU is "safe" for at least the next year and change. It's too soon to predict how the reboot toys will sell and the Masterverse ones are just trickling out, so again, too soon to tell. But if nothing else, "Origins" is doing well and should continue to carry the brand for a while. The backlash to "Revelation" isn't so deep that it's going to kill everything else going on. If anything, people just might not buy the Masterverse figures. BUT, some people like the way they look even though they didn't love the show. So we'll see what happens.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:44 AM   #607
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That’s a lot of Sh!t I ain’t gonna read.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:45 AM   #608
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WHY they'd ever expect a bunch of 40-year olds who watch cartoons to be "mature", I don't know.
They probably are for the most part. Just a vocal minority on the internet that are complaining about it.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:53 AM   #609
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That’s a lot of Sh!t I ain’t gonna read.
That's entirely up to you. I'm not here for the benefit of the Functionally-Illiterate or the ADHD-Afflicted, I'm here for those who actually want to learn something.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:09 AM   #610
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Don’t know man. All your ramblings tend to blend in together. It’s probably why you and the same three people repeat the same things over and over again.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:13 AM   #611
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More likely it has to do with how only three or four people on this forum know how to read or write.

I'll be sure and take this "constructive criticism" from someone who has strong opinions about things like Ultraman and Fairly Oddparents under advisement.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:26 AM   #612
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Wait, I’m lost. I know we discussed your poor taste in Kaiju flicks before, but did we ever have a discussion about fairly Odd parents? I don’t remember.

I think I share the same opinion as most that it probably should have ended with either Abra-catastrophe or channel chasers. Wouldn’t really count those as “strong opinions.”
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:36 AM   #613
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Here's the thing: I don't even remember ever having any issue with you. But if you're going to come out of nowhere taking jabs at me, especially over something as banal as my long-windedness, you can't expect me to just say "Huh, okay, I'm just gonna ignore his smartass remark."

Anyways, since you're such a busy guy and my long post above was so offensive to your eyes that simply you had to "come at me" for it, I'll "tl;dr" it for you:

- The new show's fine, if it came out five years ago OR five years from now people would like it just fine
- People cry hard about nonsense they won't even care about in a few years
- Mattel's quarterly earnings went up again, partly due to MOTU Origins doing well
- They just filed trademarks for about 30 characters from MOTU and She-Ra, so if Mattel is "burying" the MOTU brand then they're doing it in a really weird way since they're spending a lot of money on its development and production

That's the gist of what my "long" post was saying. Hopefully I trimmed it down enough for you to deem it "acceptable".
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:39 AM   #614
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Really wanted to give this show a try simply because I never understood the appeal of He-Man and action cartoons that look this good just seem rare these days. But after the hardcore backlash and everything I've heard, I don't really think this is the best show for me to "get" what's so great about He-Man. I mean, the guy walks around in a pink shirt sporting a little girl's haircut. That's already a hard sell and I definitely don't want to wait around for however many months just to see if it was worth the trouble. I'll see how people react when the season concludes to see if I should even bother.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:47 AM   #615
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Here's the thing: I don't even remember ever having any issue with you. But if you're going to come out of nowhere taking jabs at me, especially over something as banal as my long-windedness, you can't expect me to just say "Huh, okay, I'm just gonna ignore his smartass remark."

Anyways, since you're such a busy guy and my long post above was so offensive to your eyes that simply you had to "come at me" for it, I'll "tl;dr" it for you:

- The new show's fine, if it came out five years ago OR five years from now people would like it just fine
- People cry hard about nonsense they won't even care about in a few years
- Mattel's quarterly earnings went up again, partly due to MOTU Origins doing well
- They just filed trademarks for about 30 characters from MOTU and She-Ra, so if Mattel is "burying" the MOTU brand then they're doing it in a really weird way since they're spending a lot of money on its development and production

That's the gist of what my "long" post was saying. Hopefully I trimmed it down enough for you to deem it "acceptable".
I got nothing against you. Seem like a good dude.

As for the show itself. Seems to me that it should have been a season 4 or 5 to an already pre-existed reboot. Kind of like the reboot hellboy film that felt like a sequel to a film that was never made. Outside of that? I just find it bland.
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:06 AM   #616
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Well I'm glad we could move past this miscommunication.

I've said a few times, if this exact series was Season 2, most/all complaints would evaporate.

The thing is, that shouldn't really matter so much, because stories joined in media res aren't anything new. People can fight the story being told, or let the story tell itself and see where it goes, and a lot of times I find people doing the former in cases where they ought to be doing the latter.

Especially since MOST people watching this show already have some kind of base knowledge of these characters anyway, they should be able to mentally fill in some of the gaps themselves. I mean it's not rocket science. The Filmation cartoon and the Golden books back in the day weren't exactly overflowing with backstory, either. They just dropped you into things and you went along with it.

At the end of the day, the biggest mistake was marketing it as a "Filmation Sequel" and not just a standalone MOTU Adventure. People cry about Teela not acting like Filmation Teela, or Randor not acting like Filmation Randor, and it's like... yeah, they also had different personalities in 200X... and the comics... and the Golden books... once you remember they're doing a composite universe, many complaints about how the characters behave resolve themselves. BUT, to be fair, they advertised it as a "Filmation Sequel", and that was the noose they tied for themselves. Shouldn't have done that.

As for "bland", that's an opinion, you're entitled to it. I don't personally agree, if anything I think it's more vibrant and energetic than anything they've ever done with the brand. But it's an opinion. My objection is to people claiming the show doesn't represent the brand well when it definitely does. Just maybe not the specific way they would've wanted.

People are gonna sh*t a brick in a few months when that CGI reboot comes out and looks and feels even LESS like MOTU. Not looking forward to that.
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:37 AM   #617
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You are probably right about the whole being one of the better moments of the brand. I wouldn’t be able to tell you. My only real exposure to He-man is faint memories of catching reruns of the original show on tv and what I barely remember of the 2002 show. Actually rewatched some episodes of the 2002 show just so I could get a refresher on the brand.

I mean obviously brands go through “nostalgia” pains with fans because it isn’t what they grew up on. Thundercats 2011 is a good strong point for this as I remember the criticism when the original trailer came out for not being like the old show, and now it’s pretty praised, though it helps that it is compared to Roar (which I’ll give revalation credit, Roar it ain’t.)
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:47 AM   #618
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Yeah, Thundercats is a good example. I like the reboot. At the time, I definitely fought it for not being enough like the original, and there's definitely things about the original I prefer. But I can't sit here and say the reboot isn't a good show because it's not like the first show, it is a good show.

Revelation, same thing. It's not 1:1 with Filmation or 200X or any other version, but it's very, very "MOTU". They didn't break anything. You could take the same script with only minor tweaks and it would fit in as a Filmation or 200X story arc very nicely.

I'm allowing for the fact that I grew up exposed to all the disparate versions of the brand at once - the toys, the books, the mini-comics, and the cartoons - all of which had some pretty distinct differences. So I'm not crying about, like "Teela doesn't act exactly how she would in Filmation". She might've in any of the 6 or 7 OTHER MOTU canons which exist, so it's still "Teela" to me. People looking JUST for things to fit in cleanly with Filmation... I see their frustration, but I don't think that's the right way for them to look at the thing.

Like, when a DC stand-alone animated movie comes out, people expect that it's not gonna be 1:1 with the comics, right? Even if it's named after one of them, people automatically expect that it'll be different. Even ones that kinda-sorta look like they'd fit in with the DCAU aren't directly in sync with them, there's always changes and discrepancies, and we're supposed to just get over it. I'm not sure why that's how we're "supposed" to view one thing, but not this thing.
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:36 AM   #619
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I think the difference is, again like you said, is the brand. Let’s be honest the big 2 comics have been like that forever now. They haven’t “looked the same” probably since the beginning, and anybody that’s been around since Superman’s first debut is dead. As a brand we are kind of used to that BS.

Honestly is one of the reasons I can’t get invested to the big 2 because it will probably all go out the window in the next few years. Why bother.

On the opposite end, and this is speaking from an outsiders perspective, as a brand it seems like He-man only ever focuses on G1. Even just going by what I’ve read of DC comics and the 2002 series it shares not only the same cast of heroes and villains but seems to try to be the same tone. At least with Hasbro they tried coming out with Beast Wars.

It also doesn’t help that with mainstream that there really only ever was three He-man shows with two of them falling into obscurity.

It’s one of those things that’s hard to be a composite when brand only recognizes one version, with the only thing from appearances that it borrows from the non-filmation show is that Adam is much smaller in the 2002 series ( I don’t know the condensus but that’s always been my preferences)


I think that’s where TMNT got really lucky. At the height of it’s popularity it had two extremely beloved versions in the eye of the mainstream (the 87 cartoon and the 90’s films) both of which were definitely different in tone though the 87 show does have the more favored characters (though tokka and rahzar have definitely getting their moments to shine.)

Then Of course TMNT has 6 mainstream iterations (4 shows and two movie lines) each one pretty different from the others, so a “Composite” like say The Last Ronin definitely works better.

As for the cgi show? I think Mattel is going to play it safe. Not after what they did with Monster High.
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Old 07-30-2021, 05:08 AM   #620
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The thing is, if by "G1" you mean FIlmation, it might be the best-known iteration by "casuals" but a lot of hardcore fans can't stand that cartoon, and never liked it even back then. So it's kind of muddy waters.

The thing with MOTU is, between the comics that came with the toys, the Golden books, the DC comics and then Filmation, before the first Season of the cartoon was over with you already had FOUR distinct "canons" kids were exposed to where all the characters mostly LOOKED the same, but in some cases they definitely didn't act the same. Before the "most iconic" version of the franchise even existed, kids had already gotten used to the fact that not all of this stuff was going to be seamlessly in sync. Sometimes Prince Adam didn't even exist. Even in the comics that came with the toys, originally he didn't... and then he did. Without any explanation, you just had to accept these things as they went along.

And yes, at that time almost every kid who liked He-Man ALSO bought the toys, the books, and the comics, along with watching the cartoon, or even if they DIDN'T watch the cartoon. There's a big huge chunk of the fanbase who don't even claim Filmation, because they think it "messed up the lore" by taking it away from the Conan aesthetic and made it more campy and lighthearted. But anyway, we definitely all knew and noticed that King Randor in the cartoon was totally different than King Randor in the comics. We didn't throw a fit, we just shrugged.

So if anything, MOTU fans of a certain age ought to be MORE accepting of any MOTU story where the pieces only fit neatly if you squint, because we've been there before, from Day One. Filmation might be the most generally-recognized iteration, but it's not the be-all end-all. MOTU fans have more experience trying to fit disparate canons together than most, it's always been a bit of a scramble.

If they just said outright, "We're using SOME of Filmation for this, but we're also using a bunch of OTHER stuff", that would be the most honest truth AND it might not have erroneously set some peoples' expectations to a place the show couldn't deliver on.
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The CGI reboot has everyone being much younger, a bunch of them are race-flipped, and they apparently live in Castle Grayskull like it's a big clubhouse. I honestly don't think the reboot is going to resemble MOTU much at all and I think it's gonna tank. I think it's gonna be one of those reboots where they try and make something "fresh and hip" for the kids but it fails because kids don't care what their Dads liked. We'll see, that's just my prediction.
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