What Would a Mirage Version of Rocksteady and Bebop Have Been Like?

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Ever since Powder posted Eastman and Laird's original Rocksteady and Bebop designs in another thread. I've been wondering what they would have been like if E&L had decided to just throw them into Mirage. I don't think they would have been "bumbling henchmen" to a Shredder that spends most of the series dead.

I know they wouldn't be the same kind of Mutants the Turtles are, since there's a rule about that. But, that doesn't stop anthropomorphic animal characters (Chote, Worm People, Fish people, Triceratons and other alien dinosaur races, The ancient civilization of Monkeys and Cats that Pai-Doth Noor is from, which could easily include Rhinos and Boars as well) from existing anyway.

My guess is that they would have showed up in only a couple of issues (perhaps as part of "Tales") and they would have been just troublesome thugs with no connection to the Foot. They could overwhelm the Turtles with their Strength until the Turtles outsmart them.

But, what do you think?

[ProphetofGanja]

Where's Andrew

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ProphetofGanja

Where's Andrew

Still banned, lol.

[PApagreg]

I see them similar to the IDW version of Bebop and Rocksteady, not much when it comes to brainpower but are basically unstoppable juggernauts

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I don't know if it would be right to go back and stick those two into the Mirage comics. However, had fred wolf and playmates gone with the original designs, and the two played as serious, murderous threats instead of bumbling goofballs, I think Mirage fans wouldn't hate them as much.

Those mirage-like Eastman and Laird designs are the source material for Bebop and Rocksteady, not the OT. This is how they were originally intended, not silly goofballs.

And those designs prove Bebop and Rocksteady were NOT originally conceived as jokes, and were intended to be dangerous monsters. Anyone who hates them just because they come from the OT, and doesn't want them to reappear in a future version as serious, murderous threats like Eastman and laird intended them to be, is just spewing blind hate.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.

I agree, they don't belong in mirage, and they never will. But I will be very happy if these designs show up in a future, grim 'n gritty version with a destructive nature and personality similar to idw.

[2K3]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Eastman and Laird did concept sketches for TOYS.

Not for comic characters.

I love me some IDW Bop and Rock, but Bebop and Rocksteady did not and would not ever belong in a Mirage/Image-style universe.

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

And I don't care that they never showed up. Mirage was special, and except for the occasional Andrew official-fan fic, it's over.

I do agree that Bebop and Rocksteady wouldn't work in a Mirage comics, and while I agree with your choice of characters, I would also add the following: Wingnut (alien version), Mutagen Man (what Peter Laird invisioned), Newtralizer (considering Ryan Brown's idea), Traximus, Silver Sentry, Tatsu, Bellybomb, Maligna, Null, and the Ancient One.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Those mirage-like Eastman and Laird designs are the source material for Bebop and Rocksteady, not the OT. This is how they were originally intended, not silly goofballs.

And, that's what has me intrigued.

And, I know they don't really belong in Mirage, but this is a hypothetical "what if?" kinda thing.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

The ONLY non-Mirage characters I can see who would work well are Old Hob, Agent Bishop, one single evil Utrom (Ch'rell or Krang, take your pick), and IDW's Slash.

That's a good list, though I don't know much about the IDW version of Slash and would prefer an Archie-style one (complete with his tragic origin and brutal temper), and like 2k3, I would throw in Null, Maligna, and the Ancient One.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

And, I know they don't really belong in Mirage, but this is a hypothetical "what if?" kinda thing.

Having two random punks transform into a pig and rhino would be very off for Mirage. Even just having them be mutated zoo animals would come across as odd, aliens might be a better choice in this case. As for personality and role, I guess less goofy versions of what IDW gave us.

Regardless, I wouldn't want Bebop and Rocksteady running around in Mirage ever, they wouldn't fit the tone.

[Ninjinister]

I find it weird in retrospect that they kept beating into our heads that the Turtles, Splinter, Leatherhead, and Bloodsucker (STILL COUNTS DAMMIT) are the only mutants because introducing more would make them less special...

But they introduce like 50 other types of anthropomorphs.

The origins don't matter if you've got a bunch of similar beings just running around. Hell some of them had been just chillin' on Earth forever.

[CyberCubed]

Not to mention aliens walk around the Earth normally in the early 2000's when Mirage Volume 4 took place, ala Fast Forward in the 2k3 series but at least that was 100 years in the future.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Not to mention aliens walk around the Earth normally in the early 2000's when Mirage Volume 4 took place, ala Fast Forward in the 2k3 series but at least that was 100 years in the future.

The turtles usually enter society in the future.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

I find it weird in retrospect that they kept beating into our heads that the Turtles, Splinter, Leatherhead, and Bloodsucker (STILL COUNTS DAMMIT) are the only mutants because introducing more would make them less special...

But they introduce like 50 other types of anthropomorphs.

The origins don't matter if you've got a bunch of similar beings just running around. Hell some of them had been just chillin' on Earth forever.

Yeah, Archie's like that too (not surprising, it was written by a Mirage writer).

Honestly, I'm fine with more variety in the origins, rather than every anthopomorph being a product of Utrom Mutagen (I vastly prefer Slash as an alien rather than a mutant, for example), but it does make the "mutant ban" seem a little silly.

Anyway, given the "Road Warrior" inspired look of the E&L designs, I wonder if they wouldn't work as part of a post-apocalyptic future story rather than a "present day" story. Maybe, they'd have worked as part of the Palladium RPG's "After The Bomb" scenario, or the future set issues of "Tales".

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Tetsu Deinonychus

Ever since Powder posted Eastman and Laird's original Rocksteady and Bebop designs in another thread. I've been wondering what they would have been like if E&L had decided to just throw them into Mirage.

My guess is that they would have showed up in only a couple of issues (perhaps as part of "Tales")

I believe it was Tristan who was pushing that at one point, Bebop and Rocksteady sort of appearing in Tales V2 through some kind of dimensional gateway. Peter said "No," bless his heart.

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

The designs originally created by Eastman and Laird would have worked well as henchmen for Savanti in the Cerebus crossover. Anyone disagree?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ***First of Two Latin Kings***

The designs originally created by Eastman and Laird would have worked well as henchmen for Savanti in the Cerebus crossover. Anyone disagree?

No. But... why even do that, force that comparison? Why dredge out something not good just for the sake of it?

[***First of Two Latin Kings***]

In the loosest sense, Bebop and Rocksteady were "Mirage" characters because Laird created them to be used for toy designs. The original designs aren't tainted by the drastic adaptation made by MWS any more than the Mirage turtles, April, Casey or Splinter were. You can't say "they wouldn't fit in to the Mirage comic" simply because they've been long established as ineffectual bumbling idiots. If this is the case, Mirage should have never let MWS do the show to begin with, since most of the characters are only loose adaptations anyway.

Shredder in Mirage is hardly more of a threat than he is in the Fred Wolf show. No matter how many times he comes back they simply defeat him again. He's more menacing and sociopathic maybe, bit only slightly more competent.

If you want a competent Shredder you have to go to the 2003 show universe or the Nick show. We never had a resolution one way or the other in Archie.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ***First of Two Latin Kings***

. We never had a resolution one way or the other in Archie.

We did in Year of the Turtle.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ***First of Two Latin Kings***

In the loosest sense, Bebop and Rocksteady were "Mirage" characters because Laird created them to be used for toy designs. The original designs aren't tainted by the drastic adaptation made by MWS any more than the Mirage turtles, April, Casey or Splinter were. You can't say "they wouldn't fit in to the Mirage comic" simply because they've been long established as ineffectual bumbling idiots. If this is the case, Mirage should have never let MWS do the show to begin with, since most of the characters are only loose adaptations anyway.

No. Being drawn by Eastman and Laird DOES NOT make them MIRAGE characters.

Not even loosely. That's like saying X-Force and Spawn are in the same universe because Greg Capullo drew them both.