The Rock Confirmed To Play Black Adam In DC's "SHAZAM" Movie

[Autbot_Benz]

Hawkman is black in this movie.... though he never was in the comics or any media

https://collider.com/black-adam-movi...source=twitter

[sdp]

Hawkman has had way too many different origins so it doesn't matter, the fact that Hawkman of all people is in the movie is cool enough.

[Leo656]

I need a f*cking drink.

[AquaParade]

NoOoOooo! Not.... blaAAAaaack!!

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I need a f*cking drink.

agreed and I don't even drink

[Andrew NDB]

Nobody cares about Hawkman, so a big "who cares?" from me.

[Autbot_Benz]

why is it when studio's do the race change the default is always black. They do realize asians and Latinx people exist too right?

[Leo656]

He ought'a be a real big deal. He had the potential to be awesome, but that would've required them to stop with all the reboots and retcons of his character some time around 1987.

Stupid "Hawkworld". That went and mucked everything up and ever since then it's just been one mess on top of another.

You know it's bad when in the 90s, Morrison wanted to use Hawkman in JLA but DC said no, so then he created Zauriel. When your editors say that an actual Angel from Christian Heaven is less problematic standing next to Superman and Batman that friggin' Hawkman is, you know you've well and truly sh*t the bed with a character.

Johns tried hard to "fix" it in JSA, but for my money, the "reincarnation" angle only created more problems, on account of people don't usually reincarnate as grown-ass adults after they die the way Katar and Sheira seemingly do. Plus, that just started the trap of killing the Hawks in every cross-over just to up the body count until the point it became a joke.

He's a great visual and a commanding presence so Hawkman really ought'a be a big deal. But his Wikipedia page should not be longer than Abraham Lincoln's, and that's entirely the problem. Too much conflicting information, and no consistency whatsoever.

And now, "Sometimes he's black", because MORE disparity and confusion is exactly what this particular character needed.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

why is it when studio's do the race change the default is always black. They do realize asians and Latinx people exist too right?

There's no "nice" way to say it, but it is indeed the answer to your question, so here it is: Those other groups don't habitually pitch fits and make big public displays of anger about being "misrepresented" in fictional media. They generally don't care. Therefore there's no reason to make a big hoopla about appeasing them. They weren't the ones crying about anything to start with.

People who pander don't waste time pandering to people who won't care enough to complain.

[sdp]

Are thanagarians not actually a thing in the DCU anymore? I liked the way the DCAU handled hawkgirl as an alien and the original origin re-done with hawkman in JLU.

[Leo656]

Truthfully, if we're being entirely honest, there probably never should have been Thanagarians. That's where things got mucked up in the first place.

In the Golden Age everything was tied back to the mystical Egyptian Hawk Gods or some such, and while a bit "out there" it was fine. Mummy movies were in fashion and there was a bit of a fascination going on with the "exotic" ancient Egyptian culture, and at least it was rather unique as super-hero origins go. Fast forward to the 60s, all of that stuff was Out and Sci-Fi was In, so now it wasn't anything to do with Ancient Gods, at least not directly, but instead it was aliens. Just like every other super-hero. They pulled the MCU "There aren't gods, just hyper-advanced aliens who more ignorant people merely thought of as gods" angle half a century before Marvel did it. And sure, it was a more grounded explanation, BUT it was also the first crack in the story and all the other problems grew out of that very first hairline fracture.

THEN much later on they tried to combine it all so that the mythos involved BOTH actual Egyptian Gods and high-tech space aliens, and jumping through tons of hoops trying to explain THAT sh*t, and how the Thanagarians were actually the reason the ancient Egyptians had their entire culture and blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH. And THEN in the late-80s you had TWO conflicting versions of Thanagar appearing in print at the same time once "Hawkworld", which was SUPPOSED to be a non-canon Elseworlds tale, sold too many copies and thus retroactively BECAME canon just because it was financially successful, and oh boy did that cause even MORE problems. Now the Hawkman in the JLA isn't "really" Hawkman and he's an impostor and we're only up to 1988 and it's already a complete lost cause.

If anything, they should have been forced to pick ONE version of the origin and stick to it. It's either Egyptian Gods OR it's space aliens. You CAN'T do both at the same time and have it make any sense. They've been trying it that way for over 30 years, putting a "But what about Reincarnation?" band-aid on it because lord knows THAT simplifies things.

I know Thanagar as a thing has become a big part of the DCU mythos over the years, but really, there's already too many super-heroes who have a watered-down version of Superman's origin story, and that's really all it is when you get down to it. "Alien who'd be a Normie on his own planet comes to Earth where he has extra powers and becomes a Big Huge Deal." It's different, but fundamentally it's the same.

One could argue that being literally blessed by ancient Egyptian gods is even sillier, and that's a fair point, but at least it's something different. If I were given the pen and told, "Fix Hawkman", I'd have to subscribe to KISS Theory: "Keep It Simple, Stupid", and take it all the way back to Square One, where an archaeologist merely stumbled upon some cool toys in a pyramid one day and now he's a super-hero. It never needed to be any more complicated than that.

One could very strongly argue that the creation of Thanagar ended up causing a lot more problems than it ever solved. Thus, one has to wonder if it's even necessary, or just hanging around because it's been there so long by now that deleting it would make everything worse.

It's a shame. I like Hawkman. "In Theory". But Christ, he's such a goddamn mess I don't see how anyone could ever get into him. The entire Hawk mythos is just a tangled web of nonsense with every attempt at resolution or clarification only creating ten more problems.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Latinx people exist too right?

Latinx people don't exist. That's not a real thing.

I mean, I'm half latino. That's a thing.

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's a shame. I like Hawkman. "In Theory". But Christ, he's such a goddamn mess I don't see how anyone could ever get into him. The entire Hawk mythos is just a tangled web of nonsense with every attempt at resolution or clarification only creating ten more problems.

Hawkman somehow manages to be even more radioactive than the Legion of Super-Heroes, and that's no small feat. I think it was Zero Hour, way back, that tried to "Fix" him by making him the sum of every Hawkman ever, or something? Jesus. I want nothing to do with that.

Originally Posted by Leo656

There's no "nice" way to say it, but it is indeed the answer to your question, so here it is: Those other groups don't habitually pitch fits and make big public displays of anger about being "misrepresented" in fictional media. They generally don't care. Therefore there's no reason to make a big hoopla about appeasing them. They weren't the ones crying about anything to start with.

People who pander don't waste time pandering to people who won't care enough to complain.

I don't know... it's usually loud, pink-haired white people complaining on Twitter that are pandered to... not the actual races of people they're trying to defend/support. They're just watching things like, "You want to fight for me? I'm not really feeling oppressed... but go ahead, I guess." Kind of like how the peaceful BLM protests are. Mostly angry white chicks and a few white dudes, very little actual black people.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

NoOoOooo! Not.... blaAAAaaack!!

You get a cookie, sir!

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nobody cares about Hawkman, so a big "who cares?" from me.

I fall squarely into this camp. Hawk who? Don't care, not interested in the character no matter what.

[sdp]

I might be biased since I grew up with Justice League but I just prefer Hawkgirl, I'm fine with Hawkman existing since thanagarians are a thing and a better origin than the magic origin one. Hawkgirl is awesome.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Latinx people don't exist. That's not a real thing.

I mean, I'm half latino. That's a thing.

Any Filipino? I had a nickel on "Maybe a little Filipino".

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Hawkman somehow manages to be even more radioactive than the Legion of Super-Heroes, and that's no small feat. I think it was Zero Hour, way back, that tried to "Fix" him by making him the sum of every Hawkman ever, or something? Jesus. I want nothing to do with that.

They more or less merged ALL the different Hawkmans AND the Hawk-God they derived their powers from into a single being. And then they killed him off immediately and didn't use him for almost 10 years, rendering the entire exercise pointless. "Whoops".

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I fall squarely into this camp. Hawk who? Don't care, not interested in the character no matter what.

See, and that's the problem. I don't begrudge you your not-caring, DC has made it impossible to care because the character is such a mess. Who Is Hawkman? What's his origin, his power set, his motivation, his basic character or personality? There aren't any easy answers. And these questions MUST always be simple to answer or you generally have a sh*t character. You can't have 10 conflicting answers to one single question.

But people SHOULD care about Hawkman, because Hawkman should be very cool.

I'd seen a few comics with the character as a kid, but never cared much. My REAL "introduction" to the character was in a four-part Justice League America story by Jurgens, "Destiny's Hand", involving the classic League villain Dr. Destiny. Short version, Dr. D was using his dreamscape powers to try and trap the JLA in a slightly darker parallel reality made up of their fears and whatnot. So we see Sinestro trying to escape the League as per usual, and then BAM, Hawkman casually flies in and shatters his entire face with that big f*cking mace of his. Then he tells the League to take Sinestro into custody and chop off his arms so he can't use his ring anymore, while "confiscating" the ring for his own self. And I'm immediately like, "Damn, this guy doesn't f*ck around." Sadly, that was like the first and last story for a very long time to use the character to his potential, and it wasn't even set in the "real" reality for most of it.

Obviously you have the imposing visual of the massive hawk-wings and the big spiky mace, but all of that is attached to a character with a very black-and-white sense of morality which puts him into constant conflict with his peers. Whereas most of the JLA or JSA agonizes in committee about their place in the world and where The Line is drawn between being pro-active and becoming dictator overlords, Hawkman is basically, "F*ck these super-villains, we should just hack 'em up and be done with it. They're pests and vermin, we should treat them as such." He's a Randian Objectivist archetype who firmly believes Might Makes Right, and that makes him supremely interesting when played against all of the more traditional super-heroes. He doesn't believe in shades of gray, he just wants to punish the wicked and he likes hurting people. He's not a nice guy, and he's a little bit cracked. In the Silver Age, he was always in conflict with Green Arrow because Ollie is Far Left with a large social conscience and Hawkman is Far Right and thinks bleeding hearts are just as bad as the criminals they coddle.

Which isn't to say that the character is necessarily correct in his views, but the point is, EVERY team needs a Wild Card or Black Sheep, and for many years Hawkman was exactly that. While the other JLA and JSA members would be debating what sort of "humane" punishment they could come up with for the bad guys, Hawkman would always be the one to be like, "Can't we just kill these assholes?" You NEED a guy like that. It makes things interesting.

Used to be, even the other people in the JLA would be just a bit uneasy whenever Hawkman showed up, because he was just that imposing and uncompromising, practically a force of nature. Before his origins got all mucked up, he was every bit as essential to the team as Superman and Batman and Flash. He only went away because writers couldn't crack the tangled web of nonsense his story had become. And that's a real shame.

It's a shame that there's an entire generation who thinks that Hawkman is irrelevant, but a character who was only created to be "Hawkman, But With A Vagina" is a big huge deal. When your Redundant Extension Sidekick/F*ck Pal ends up becoming more relevant than you are to the world at large, you know someone screwed up bad.

So yeah, I don't begrudge anyone not caring about Hawkman, DC made it impossible. But that's a shame. There is a GREAT and very interesting character in there, underneath all the barnacles. It's just too far gone to fix, at this point. They had many chances to fix it, but all they ever did was make it worse, and now I don't see any way to right the ship.

But again, if anyone is sincerely curious to see what the big deal about Hawkman, they should read "Destiny's Hand" in Justice League America 72-75. You'll come away with a new appreciation for what the character can be, while also feeling incredibly frustrated that he's generally never been written that well since. But if nothing else, it's a great story in itself.


I've said this for 30 years, but Dan Jurgens should just write everything in the DCU. He's the only guy who knows jack from sh*t and never fell in love with himself. Unlike Johns and those other hacks.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I fall squarely into this camp. Hawk who? Don't care, not interested in the character no matter what.

I care about him enough to say, "Even f***in' Hawkman deserves to be on the JL over Cyborg!" but that's about it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I care about him enough to say, "Even f***in' Hawkman deserves to be on the JL over Cyborg!" but that's about it.

Martian Manhunter or GTFO, I say. But also, yeah, anybody over Cyborg.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Any Filipino? I had a nickel on "Maybe a little Filipino".

0. The rest of me is Swedish and Norwegian.

Come to think of it, I wonder why the SJWs don't campaign for filipinx? Why isn't that a thing? Maybe they're just getting around to it.

[Leo656]

Wow, I was way off. There goes my nickel!

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

0. The rest of me is Swedish and Norwegian.

Come to think of it, I wonder why the SJWs don't campaign for filipinx? Why isn't that a thing? Maybe they're just getting around to it.

They don't know what or where it is.

If it does have little do with USA!!! and its politics, it might as well be on another planet.

[Galactus]

So Hawkman/Black Adam Ancient Egypt and possibly JSA connection. That's in the pipeline, right?

If that movie ever gets made it kinda devalues what Snyder was trying to do have everything begin with Superman. It's one thing to have Wonder Woman low key getting into scrapes and Batman being viewed as an urban myth but a WWII super team and people are shocked by a guy with super strength that can fly when when the JSA existed.