October 2021 Solicitations

[hypered1]

That still doesn't give anyone permission to be rude and abusive to a member of the creative team.
Have you ever heard to the phrase 'You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar'? I wouldn't be surprised if the current creative team are deliberately maintaining the current status quo just to spite all of the negative drivel being spouted on here, in fact I'd even laud them for not giving in to bunch of infants who don't know how to have civil discussion without throwing insults around.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Too bad that argument, if one can call it that, falls apart the moment you remember that Tom Waltz was/is under the exact same amount of oversight and yet still produced a far superior product. There's a reason we're all counting the days until he returns.

did he though? both are different styles of stories. waltz's style was telling multiple story lines in a few pages and have them running together. campbell's is one story with multiple hints and clues of what might come in later stories. personally i like campbells way because to me you become more invested with the characters.

another way to look at it is like movie directors, take Tarintinos work with pulp fiction and Spielberg's jaws. both are good films but told completely different.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

(...) I'd even laud them for not giving in to bunch of infants who don't know how to have civil discussion without throwing insults around.

Yet that's exactly what they've been doing since #101, catering to the Twitter crowd.

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

did he though? both are different styles of stories. waltz's style was telling multiple story lines in a few pages and have them running together. campbell's is one story with multiple hints and clues of what might come in later stories. personally i like campbells way because to me you become more invested with the characters.

another way to look at it is like movie directors, take Tarintinos work with pulp fiction and Spielberg's jaws. both are good films but told completely different.

So you're saying Waltz managed to have more plates spinning at any one given time while developing the main characters more, staging intriguing conflicts, sowing the seeds of future plots, and all while making it all tie neatly together in the end of a 100-issue run. Good to know we're on the same page. I can pretty much guarantee the "multiple hints and clues of what might come in later stories" thing isn't being thrown in of Campbell's own volition, but instead as the result of the much-vaunted editorial oversight. I get what you're trying to say but Jaws doesn't come across as "extreme" enough of an example of that other style. How about Lord of the Rings (Waltz) vs Kill Bill (Campbell)?

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Yet that's exactly what they've been doing since #101, catering to the Twitter crowd.

Of course they will when that's the crowd that actually shows them some respect and having actually read tweets on Tom, Bobby and Sophie's twitter profile I safely say that although most of them speak positively about the current run there are also a fair amount of negative tweets too but they also are written in a respectful manner, unlike the aggressive, bullying and sometimes even hostile manner most people here seem to take.
Like I said it takes honey to catch flies.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, the discourse around the book has become a bit embarrassing.
At some point, you just start to sound entitled.

It's not the critiquing, it's just the manner in which it is usually done around here. Not from everyone, but from some.

Doubly so for the people who continue to buy the book after two years of complaining about it. You have to take your finger out of the socket if you want the shock to stop. Not nestle it in there and beg for the electricity to stop.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

Of course they will when that's the crowd that actually shows them some respect and having actually read tweets on Tom, Bobby and Sophie's twitter profile I safely say that although most of them speak positively about the current run there are also a fair amount of negative tweets too but they also are written in a respectful manner, unlike the aggressive, bullying and sometimes even hostile manner most people here seem to take.
Like I said it takes honey to catch flies.

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Yeah, the discourse around the book has become a bit embarrassing.
At some point, you just start to sound entitled.

It's not the critiquing, it's just the manner in which it is usually done around here. Not from everyone, but from some.

Doubly so for the people who continue to buy the book after two years of complaining about it. You have to take your finger out of the socket if you want the shock to stop. Not nestle it in there and beg for the electricity to stop.

Gimme a break with that rhetoric. The "respectful" (aka bootlicking) crowd isn't the one that brings home the bacon for IDW. It's very easy to post on Twitter gushing over a comic one never read before #101 and/or doesn't even buy but is automatically the GOAT because of who's currently helming it. Whatever happened to "The customer's always right"? Actual readers who've supported this comic from day one are the ones who's say matters, not opportunistic virtue-signalling shills. Not buying and complaining would make me a hypocrite. That role is already taken.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Gimme a break with that rhetoric. The "respectful" (aka bootlicking) crowd isn't the one that brings home the bacon for IDW. It's very easy to post on Twitter gushing over a comic one never read before #101 and/or doesn't even buy but is automatically the GOAT because of who's currently helming it. Whatever happened to "The customer's always right"? Actual readers who've supported this comic from day one are the ones who's say matters, not opportunistic virtue-signalling shills. Not buying and complaining would make me a hypocrite. That role is already taken.

Being respectful is "bootlicking". Now that's good. I dropped the book a while ago. I'll critique stuff all day. I just think there's a way to complain without being petulant.

You should voice your opinion, but draw the line at hurling insults at the creators, or just generally coming across like a baby. I guess the decision whether or not to buy the book is up to you, but if you buy the book, know that you are supporting the direction they are going in. The smartest move to make is to stop buying the book and voice your opinion, respectfully, to the creators or license holders, while supporting the stuff you do like.

On one hand, I understand that there are preferences and habits, when it comes to collecting stuff like comics, media, etc. Some people feel the need to stick around and keep buying a product that clearly isn't being aimed at them anymore, whether that's to keep their collection filled in, or out of fear that the thing they love will die completely if they don't keep supporting it. Those are tough breaks.

[ChosenOne]

Don't recall having insulted or been disrespectful of any creators, just their creative skills (and I'm very disrespectful of those) when the occasion calls for it, but you do you. This circular logic is tiresome. The current run sucks and needs a good writer like Tom Waltz on board. Period. Everything else is just a distraction from the crux of the problem.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

More Campbell furry SJW bullsh*t, yaaay!

On the plus side, Hob vs Stockman AT LONG LAST!

And that typo right smack on the cover of the April spotlight, damn...

You were literally disrespectful towards Sophie in the second post of this very thread; you directly attacked what you believe to be are her ideologies, something you and others have done on many occasions.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Don't recall having insulted or been disrespectful of any creators, just their creative skills (and I'm very disrespectful of those) when the occasion calls for it, but you do you. This circular logic is tiresome. The current run sucks and needs a good writer like Tom Waltz on board. Period. Everything else is just a distraction from the crux of the problem.

Yeah, Hypered just proved that wrong pretty easily.

Even if they hadn't, I never said you were being disrespectful.
You took that upon yourself. Probably telling.

Not sure what "circular logic" you are referring to. I never said the current run didn't suck.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

You were literally disrespectful towards Sophie in the second post of this very thread; you directly attacked what you believe to be are her ideologies, something you and others have done on many occasions.

Maybe she shouldn't mix her ideologies with her creative output, eh? Bad form. Nice try.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Yeah, Hypered just proved that wrong pretty easily.

Even if they hadn't, I never said you were being disrespectful.
You took that upon yourself. Probably telling.

Not sure what "circular logic" you are referring to. I never said the current run didn't suck.

And it will never stop not sucking if people keep making excuses for her and pretending it's the fault of everyone else except the person in charge of the writing.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Maybe she shouldn't mix her ideologies with her creative output, eh? Bad form. Nice try.

Except she has every right to do just that, just the same as every comic writer or anyone else in the wider media industry does. That's how just about every book, film or TV series gets made. Otherwise it would just be copy pasting same thing over and over again, which even you must agree would be very boring.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

Except she has every right to do just that, just the same as every comic writer or anyone else in the wider media industry does. That's how just about every book, film or TV series gets made. Otherwise it would just be copy pasting same thing over and over again, which even you must agree would be very boring.

I very much disagree with that. With the way you say just about every work of fiction gets made, not that it would be very boring if that were the case. It would. Fortunately, those cases are few and far between, and as a general rule instantly recognized for the bad quality of their writing. Can you imagine Tarantino making a whole movie about feet...? There's a difference between having a unique creative voice and style, and hammering your audience over the head with unsubtly crammed-in themes, motifs and agendas, especially if everything somehow always circles back to that, to the detriment of every other element of the work. That's taking "Write what you know" right up to the edge and then giving it a good shove. Particularly egregious if it's not your work and you spend years writing about everything but the stuff it's actually about.

Campbell's art is nothing short of exquisite. Her writing, however, is utterly subpar.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Campbell's art is nothing short of exquisite. Her writing, however, is utterly subpar.

I generally agree with this.

But aside from that, I'm mostly just saying you can't keep buying the book and expecting it to change. I know it's sort of a catch-22, but it's just difficult to see someone continue to complain about something, in such a harsh manner, while funding it.
It's like you're going to keep supporting the direction of this book in the only way that truly counts - with your dollars, and then hop on here and be super aggressive towards the creators. It's sort of self-fulfilling outrage.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I very much disagree with that. With the way you say just about every work of fiction gets made, not that it would be very boring if that were the case. It would. Fortunately, those cases are few and far between, and as a general rule instantly recognized for the bad quality of their writing. Can you imagine Tarantino making a whole movie about feet...? There's a difference between having a unique creative voice and style, and hammering your audience over the head with unsubtly crammed-in themes, motifs and agendas, especially if everything somehow always circles back to that, to the detriment of every other element of the work. That's taking "Write what you know" right up to the edge and then giving it a good shove. Particularly egregious if it's not your work and you spend years writing about everything but the stuff it's actually about.

Campbell's art is nothing short of exquisite. Her writing, however, is utterly subpar.

Exactly. A good story tells you a lot about the characters. A bad story tells you a lot about the writer. I totally agree. A writer's style is one thing, it's another entirely to hijack an existing work and then twist the story around to work around one's personal crusades and interests, which is what Cambell has done, resulting in a story where all the actual important stuff has been pushed to the background while we spin our wheels in fanfiction central.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I very much disagree with that. With the way you say just about every work of fiction gets made, not that it would be very boring if that were the case. It would. Fortunately, those cases are few and far between, and as a general rule instantly recognized for the bad quality of their writing. Can you imagine Tarantino making a whole movie about feet...? There's a difference between having a unique creative voice and style, and hammering your audience over the head with unsubtly crammed-in themes, motifs and agendas, especially if everything somehow always circles back to that, to the detriment of every other element of the work. That's taking "Write what you know" right up to the edge and then giving it a good shove. Particularly egregious if it's not your work and you spend years writing about everything but the stuff it's actually about.

Campbell's art is nothing short of exquisite. Her writing, however, is utterly subpar.

That's a rather extreme example but you make a valid point; however I'd prefer to focus on your last sentence: this is a far better way to voice your opinion of the current run than the quote I previously pulled and a civil discourse can be started from that if you explain why you feel that way without using tired buzzwords like 'woke' or 'sjw'.
Yes, the writer will include some of themselves in their work and that may not work for you; that's fine it's going to happen sometimes but being blunt doesn't accomplish anything.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I generally agree with this.

But aside from that, I'm mostly just saying you can't keep buying the book and expecting it to change. I know it's sort of a catch-22, but it's just difficult to see someone continue to complain about something, in such a harsh manner, while funding it.
It's like you're going to keep supporting the direction of this book in the only way that truly counts - with your dollars, and then hop on here and be super aggressive towards the creators. It's sort of self-fulfilling outrage.

What, you've never stayed in a toxic relationship because of all the time you sunk into it? Just kidding. Truth is, what else can I and others like me do? Go the way of the pirates, if you get my drift? Give up and go find something else? And then when the next Campbell pops up to ruin that something else, and the next, and the next, and so on until we've capitulated ourselves into a corner, what then? What will normal people read or watch or play when this insanity under the guise of "progress" has taken over every single form of entertainment and even beyond that? I'm too invested to cut loose. Certainly too stubborn to go gently into that good night. Campbell can have her fun trying to tarnish TMNT, but she'll have to face loud, aggressive opposition every step of the way.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

That's a rather extreme example but you make a valid point; however I'd prefer to focus on your last sentence: this is a far better way to voice your opinion of the current run than the quote I previously pulled and a civil discourse can be started from that if you explain why you feel that way without using tired buzzwords like 'woke' or 'sjw'.
Yes, the writer will include some of themselves in their work and that may not work for you; that's fine it's going to happen sometimes but being blunt doesn't accomplish anything.

Thank you. But by whatever name you want to call it, or not call it, that's the problem right there. Extremist ideologies invariably lead those who partake in them to try to propagate them by force. Everyone is equal. Educate, don't lecture, and let time take care of those who haven't yet realized that fundamental human truth. The more people like Campbell preach, the more they lose their intended audience. I wonder often if they don't realize this or just don't care. MLK and Mandela and the other greats never lectured anyone.

[hypered1]

Either way Sophie's run will end after four more issues; there's an interview linked on her Twitter where she mentions that she's looking forward to working on new projects and there's also some art from a Superman project that she is currently drawing on there too.