Dragon Ball Daima

[neatoman]

So like... Watchmen Babies?

[Coola Yagami]

Stupidest thing ever. They got two entire sagas to animate, four if they want to retell the movies.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I am both confused and intrigued at the same time

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I am a diehard Dragonball fan, but they have really need to lay this franchise to rest if they are only going to crap on it's legacy. Dragonball Super was god awful and was an abomination the same way that Rise of the Ninja Turtles was. I have absolutely no faith in this new Dragonball series being any good. Akira used to be a creative genius, but he has most certainly lost his touch.

[ZariusTwo]

It's just GT again only everyone's a kid.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's just GT again only everyone's a kid.

Pretty much yeah

[Mad Dog McMutt]

^Wow, this girl knows her Dragonball.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

DBZ may have had it's fair share of continuity errors. Especially involving the timeline and the movies, but if we just look at just the show then I feel like for every mistake that they made they also made 100 brilliant ideas. I can't say the same for Super or GT. I thought GT was mediocre, but it was gold compared to Super. Super was almost nothing but bad ideas and concepts that don't really flow well. I hope that the new series proves me wrong, but I feel like they are gonna mess up this show as well.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by Mad Dog McMutt

^Wow, this girl knows her Dragonball.

Lol, I’m no Dragon Ball expert by any means. I’ve recently become a fan (well, I’ve been one since I was a kid but I’ve really gotten into it lately).

Originally Posted by sdp

Super is official fan fiction, Toriyama just did it because fans/toei kept asking for it but his true work was done and is the original story.

Toriyama has always been controlled by the fans. He planned to end the Dragon Balls series much earlier during the young Goku years but nope, due to its growing popularity, he had to keep going. After Goku’s death in the Cell games, he wanted to focus more on Gohan and write silly light-hearted stories again, which is how we ended up with the campy Great Saiyaman. But nope, the fans wouldn’t have it. After years and years of constant demands and pressure, I think I know what finally did Toriyama in.

I get why people think that Super is a pale comparison to Z, and that’s true since nothing really beats the classics or the impact that those classics have had on generations. But it’s not that big of a deal if Super does retcon the End of Z. If you tried to tackle the continuity issues with the entire franchise, you’d probably end up with a migraine.

One argument against Super that I can’t stand is, “They made Goku dumb!” What, like Goku has always been the sharpest tool in the shed? He agreed to marry Chi-Chi because he thought that “bride” meant something to eat!

I’m still convinced that Daima takes place within the Super timeline because we get a cameo of Bardock in the outfit that he wore in the Super manga.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by sdp

Z's ending is horrible. GT actually gave us a better ending than Z, and doubt Super will ever give us a better ending than GT did. It literally gave everyone closure.

End of Z is terrible, I agree.

GT giving everyone “closure”, though….

[ZariusTwo]

The Buu Saga to me ought to be exclusively a prequel saga to the GT timeline. Z for me ended on Cell and I imagine a great deal of people think the same. It's also when Kai ended correct?

Super is just a mess, bad animation, too much slice of life, and sagas that rely entirely on your nostalgia of better sagas.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Oh that’s not the only conflict.

1. In the original ending, Vegeta doesn’t know that Kid Buu was reborn and was shocked to learn this, but Goku tells him much earlier in Super (though to be fair, that happened in a filler)

2. How could they have had “10 years of peace” when they had to deal with Goku Black, a resurrected and now ridiculously powerful Frieza, Moro, and the revival of the Red Ribbon Army that has created a giant Cell? Goten and Trunks had become lazy by the End of Z because they didn’t do much fighting, but in the Super manga, they’re now fighting crime as the Saiyamen X.

3. Piccolo has achieved the new powerful Orange form and is on par with Goku and Vegeta, but at the End of Z he’s doesn’t want to participate in the Tournament and spar against them?

4. Vegeta declares at the end of the Kanzenban version of Z that he will one day defeat Goku. But in the Super manga and at the end of the movie Super Hero, Vegeta DOES finally defeat Goku and is just ecstatic over his victory.

5. Gohan is a laid back nerd by the End of Z, but in Super he realizes that he’s gotten soft from cutting back on his training and has just achieved the Beast Form.

6. After being called old by Goku and learning that Saiyans age slower than humans, Bulma angrily suggests using the Dragon Balls to wish herself younger at the End of Z, and yeah, she does look pretty old. In Super, she looks really good for her age, and the reason for that is because she’s been using the Dragon Balls to give herself a younger appearance for a while now.

7. With the introduction of Super Broly, wouldn’t Goku want him to participate in the Tournament too (as long as he could control his temper)?

8. With Beerus and Whis becoming a huge part in Vegeta and Goku’s life, wouldn’t they be watching the Tournament too?

There are so many conflicting details in Super that wouldn’t fit into the End of Z, which isn’t that good anyway and is rather unsatisfying, so I’ve got no complaints.

I had to go through the final chapters of the manga to be sure here. Notably I got one thing wrong, it's four years rather than five (or the translator got something wrong). Anyway, I can't see see any statement about there being ten years of uninterrupted peace, just that it's been ten years since the defeat of Majin Boo and that it's peaceful at that point. Then things like Vegeta not knowing about Oob does just seem to be Toei writers screwing up, I'm pretty sure he never finds out in the manga version. And yes, Vegeta does technically defeat Goku in both the movie and the manga but in a match where the rules were to not use any transformations or range attacks, so that may not have been entirely satisfying to him (and it's implied that Goku may have let him win)? As for Bulma, she did start to rely on cosmetics and only ever made wishes for minor alterations, it's not exactly difficult to see her starting to look closer to her actual age after a while. Broly is also somewhat lacking in control so bringing him to earth for a tournament with regular guys is an obviously bad idea.

Then the stuff about Gohan and Piccolo not participating in the tournament or Beerus not showing up seems a little forced. Gohan and Piccolo may simply just not want to under those circumstances and, while it's easy to forget given how much he shows up, Beerus is a character who considers sleeping for 50 years to be a nap and watching a bunch of normal humans get pushed around by Boo might not be entertaining enough.

Originally Posted by sdp

Didn't they animate some new scenes for Kai? Any reason to watch Kai over Z if I don't mind watching filler? I think it having a different OST than the iconic one is a big reason to skip Kai unless I'm missing something.

In a technical sense they reanimated a few scenes because they couldn't be remastered that well, but that mostly amounts to tracing existing frames. As for any reason beyond the lack of filler, they do actually speed up the fight scenes interestingly enough.

[Anarchistguy]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The Buu Saga to me ought to be exclusively a prequel saga to the GT timeline. Z for me ended on Cell and I imagine a great deal of people think the same. It's also when Kai ended correct?

Super is just a mess, bad animation, too much slice of life, and sagas that rely entirely on your nostalgia of better sagas.

That's the problem with post-1996 Dragon Ball in general, not just Super.

When Toriyama was doing the original manga, he drew inspiration from things that he enjoyed at the time: 1970s Kung Fu movies, Sc-Fi movies, video games, etc. That's part of what made it so much fun

The modern stuff just creates their arcs by taking what's already been pre established and puts a new twist on it.

Dragon Ball absolutely SUCKS when it takes inspiration from Dragon Ball (I know what I said lol).

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I guess, even though 'granny goku' is the real Goku. That 'superhero-ish' voice Schemmel does just never worked for me and something in his delivery always made Goku sound more stupid than naive. But I get it. A lot of people grew up on the dub.

Yeah I'm not a fan of "Champion of justice" Goku either lol. Yes the japanese voice is odd, but it fits his personality pretty well IMO.

[Coola Yagami]

Seems the crap dub will premiere on November 10. Guess their original worldwide premiere that was supposed to air in both Japan and US at the same time (or as close as one can give the huge time difference) fell through.

As for nobody caring about the manga, you know most American dub fans don't like to read manga or watch any anime that isn't known Adult Swim. DB is as casual and normie as it gets.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Seems the crap dub .

?

The FUNI dubs have been good for over a decade now. We aren't in 1998 anymore where episodes are cut/censored and have the music changed with mediocre voice acting. This isn't 25 years ago.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

?

The FUNI dubs have been good for over a decade now. We aren't in 1998 anymore where episodes are cut/censored and have the music changed with mediocre voice acting. This isn't 25 years ago.

Still too many Americanisms for my taste. Part of the problem is DB is still considered a kids property so they can't be bothered, while other anime like FMA and Death Note (yes I know Funi didn't do Death Note but just an example) are treated much more seriously and dubbed better. Like I get that technically DB is a kids property and it's silly at times, but when it's serious let it be serious. The kids in Japan didn't need a bunch of references and dated jokes to follow the story and characters.

While we're still way better than 1998, DB still still has a ways to go when you compare how other anime are dubbed more seriously. Vegeta calling Goku a clown for example, which has become a bit a dub running gag but was never in the original anime.

Like the recent DBZ Sparking Zero had Kid Trunks say 'no cap' which wouldn't happen if it was a Jujutsu Kaizen game or some other anime that's taken more seriously.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Still too many Americanisms for my taste. Part of the problem is DB is still considered a kids property so they can't be bothered, while other anime like FMA and Death Note (yes I know Funi didn't do Death Note but just an example) are treated much more seriously and dubbed better. Like I get that technically DB is a kids property and it's silly at times, but when it's serious let it be serious. The kids in Japan didn't need a bunch of references and dated jokes to follow the story and characters.

While we're still way better than 1998, DB still still has a ways to go when you compare how other anime are dubbed more seriously. Vegeta calling Goku a clown for example, which has become a bit a dub running gag but was never in the original anime.

Like the recent DBZ Sparking Zero had Kid Trunks say 'no cap' which wouldn't happen if it was a Jujutsu Kaizen game or some other anime that's taken more seriously.

There's a few minor alterations sure, but otherwise the scripts since Kai have been much better than before. This isn't late 90's or early 2000's FUNimation. Kai, Super, the games, and Daima all have good dubs.

It is true some of the name translations like "Master Roshi" and "Tien" have stuck around, but it's too late to change them now. At least Hercule is now called Mr. Satan all the time in the dub unlike before.

[neatoman]

This was a silly change.

All he did was laugh, why even bother with this?

[Coola Yagami]

The wish specifically says to turn people involved in the fight against Majin Buu 'and their friends' into children. So that includes Roshi, Gyu Mao and Chichi.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The wish specifically says to turn people involved in the fight against Majin Buu 'and their friends' into children. So that includes Roshi, Gyu Mao and Chichi.

So by that logic Tien should be affected as he actually fights Super Buu. And if people like Ox King or Oolong got turned into kids when they did nothing but get eaten by Super Buu on Kami's lookout, then naturally everyone besides maybe Yajirobe or Bulma's parents should be changed.