Dragon Ball Daima

[neatoman]

I'm a bit curious about his claims that he is "something like that" when Goku calls him a god and Panzy asks if that's really true. Zamasu obviously didn't really mind calling himself a god and Super makes it pretty clear that holding the title of Kaioshin makes you a god. Is he just being humble?

I also wonder about the Glind exodus. Where exactly did they go and did they take the trees with them?

[CyberCubed]

Now that we know the Kai's are just mortal beings or from the demon realm, a God is really just a title in the Dragon Ball universe. There's really nothing special about the Glinds or Kai's, they just come from the demon realm and were scouted to become guardians of the universe. And we see from Elder Kai or King Kai, they can die. They just live a really long time.

It's really only Zeno and the Angels that appear to be the true Gods of the universe. As far as we know they probably can't die.

[neatoman]

Maybe they're just a species that have been selected to fill the role of gods, but given that all Kaioshin appear to be Glind, surely they must have some special property to uniformly be given this position above all others?

[neatoman]

There is another question to be had here as well.

At first I figured that the Glind left the demon realm to serve the role of Kaioshins, but that obviously can't be the case. The tradition of there being a Kaioshin stretches back to the Old Kaioshin who Shin did not recognise, and Shin describes growing up in the demon realm before their race left. So did they leave to continue the tradition?

[Coola Yagami]

I'm sure in the sense of deities, people like Kami, Kaioh and Kaioshin are all so supposed to be far beyond regular humans that for all intents and purposes, they are gods.

I mean, it's almost a plot hole that mortals like the Saiyans can even achieve forms that can rival literal gods. But I mean... the main characters are Saiyan and this type of show requires them to be the strongest guys in the room, even when gods are in the room... so there's that....

[CyberCubed]

I forgot how many generations back Elder Kai was from, but he has to be from a long time ago given it pre-dates Majin Buu killing the other 3 Supreme Kai's and Grand Supreme Kai while only our Shin survived. So maybe the trees stay in the demon realm, but the Kai's constantly come back to bring the new babies born into the Otherworld to grow up and train to eventually take over.

An interesting that about the opening is Dabura's father is shown next to him in that one scene, so I do think we'll also get some backstory/flashbacks of Dabura and his father at some point. They didn't make that design for his father for no reason. Would love to see some flashbacks of Dabura's rule and how Babidi eventually came and took control of him.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I forgot how many generations back Elder Kai was from, but he has to be from a long time ago given it pre-dates Majin Buu killing the other 3 Supreme Kai's and Grand Supreme Kai while only our Shin survived. So maybe the trees stay in the demon realm, but the Kai's constantly come back to bring the new babies born into the Otherworld to grow up and train to eventually take over.

An interesting that about the opening is Dabura's father is shown next to him in that one scene, so I do think we'll also get some backstory/flashbacks of Dabura and his father at some point. They didn't make that design for his father for no reason. Would love to see some flashbacks of Dabura's rule and how Babidi eventually came and took control of him.

15 generations, so he was the Kaioshin of Universe 7 an extremely long time before Shin was given this title. And they can't really return, the current rules makes that difficult, as it's implied nobody is allowed to permanently leave the Demon Realm. We do see that there are floating islands and small planets in the demon realm, so it's possible that the whole planet with the trees was moved to somewhere else but the question is where. The space occupied by Zeno, maybe?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by neatoman

The space occupied by Zeno, maybe?

Assuming Zeno exists in this new continuity.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Assuming Zeno exists in this new continuity.

Well, it's really just one suggestion, it's not like the question of "where did the race as a whole go?" is really dependant on the idea that they went to his place specifically. But no, I don't think he's being disregarded. The only continuity problem so far is the fusion being undone before Beerus shows up (which could very easily be explained the same way Toyotaro reconciled the two different types of Yardratians or why Future Mai was also young) and it's not like the characters are going to be talking about information they don't have yet.

[neatoman]

So turns out that Majin Boo was not the creation of Bibidi or something that existed in the ancient past before him, but rather the creation of this legless witch who just let everyone believe Bibidi did it to keep others off her back.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So turns out that Majin Boo was not the creation of Bibidi or something that existed in the ancient past beforefore, but rather the creation of this legless witch who just let everyone believe Bibidi did it to keep others off her back.

And to make it worse... they want to create a more controllable Majin Buu....

[CyberCubed]

I think it's very interesting Majin Buu was a creation of the Demon Realm rather than being just some ancient creature Bibidi came after (which honestly makes no real sense in the original story).

I do suspect we'll get a full lore episodes of Bibidi, Babidi and Dabura eventually. The opening literally shows Dabura's father next to him, they didn't make a design for Dabura's father just for the opening and not to do anything with it. So I expect a full flashback showing how Babidi came to take over Dabura and the original creations of Buu.

Also it's interesting then that Kid Buu followed the Glinds to the Otherworld since that's where he kills the other Supreme Kai's. I guess Bibidi dies around this point as Buu probably killed him.

On another note the fight with Goku and the first Dragon Ball robot was really good. Really nice animation and I'm glad the fight was only around 5 minutes long and not the entire episode. If this was DBZ you know that fight would have been the whole episode and maybe even half of the next one. Thank god they don't have to stretch things out anymore.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think it's very interesting Majin Buu was a creation of the Demon Realm rather than being just some ancient creature Bibidi came after (which honestly makes no real sense in the original story).

I do suspect we'll get a full lore episodes of Bibidi, Babidi and Dabura eventually. The opening literally shows Dabura's father next to him, they didn't make a design for Dabura's father just for the opening and not to do anything with it. So I expect a full flashback showing how Babidi came to take over Dabura and the original creations of Buu.

Also it's interesting then that Kid Buu followed the Glinds to the Otherworld since that's where he kills the other Supreme Kai's. I guess Bibidi dies around this point as Buu probably killed him.

On another note the fight with Goku and the first Dragon Ball robot was really good. Really nice animation and I'm glad the fight was only around 5 minutes long and not the entire episode. If this was DBZ you know that fight would have been the whole episode and maybe even half of the next one. Thank god they don't have to stretch things out anymore.

Ah no, you forgot some details there.

Bibidi was originally said to have created Majin Buu, not to have found him.

Kaohshin killed Bibidi one of the times that he sealed Buu in the ball. That's why Buu was trapped in the ball for centuries. They couldn't destroy it so they hid it on Earth. In fact one of Babidi's motives was to kill Kaioshin for revenge of him killing his father.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Ah no, you forgot some details there.

Bibidi was originally said to have created Majin Buu, not to have found him.

Kaohshin killed Bibidi one of the times that he sealed Buu in the ball. That's why Buu was trapped in the ball for centuries. They couldn't destroy it so they hid it on Earth. In fact one of Babidi's motives was to kill Kaioshin for revenge of him killing his father.

In an interview, Toriyama claimed that Boo was something that existed before Bibidi came along and that nobody really created him. It's a similar scenario to the Shinjin thing, the original manga never claimed the Kaioshin came from a tree and the concept as shown in Daima is a bit different from what Toriyama claimed.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by neatoman

In an interview, Toriyama claimed that Boo was something that existed before Bibidi came along and that nobody really created him. It's a similar scenario to the Shinjin thing, the original manga never claimed the Kaioshin came from a tree and the concept as shown in Daima is a bit different from what Toriyama claimed.

That's either retconning or stuff Toriyama forgot and changed after the fact. I mean going by the manga and anime Buu saga (before this interview) it was stated that Bibidi created Buu.

I mean who knows, changing it now that this new character was the real creator of Buu and just said Bibidi did it was a way to take the interview into account/

[CyberCubed]

We're 8 eps in, and assuming this is just 20 eps (or at most 22-24?) we're almost halfway into the series. I have to say I'm really enjoying it so far, although I am concerned about the pacing given how much they have left to cover in so little time left. I guess it's hard to judge Daima overall until it ends obviously, since we still don't quite know how the rest of the story will play out.

Overall though it does seem like a fitting sendoff to Toriyama's legacy. You can tell he hard a lot of fun coming up with the concepts for this series and all the new lore. And Kid Goku has been a lot of fun surprisingly.

[neatoman]

Alright, so the latest episode had the various Kaioshin from Super show up when Shin explained how divine authority works, including Gowasu and those guys we saw during the tournaments. So yes, that part is at the very least preserved from Super. And it's also explained that the Glind trees died, which is why they all left.

The rest of the lore reveals are a bit odd though. Apparently, the Demon Realm is the original reality and a previous Demon King commissioned a guy named Rymus to create the multiverse. Rymus himself is... Allegedly still the supreme authority of the multiverse and may or may not be the same character as Zeno or at least related in some sense. It's a little hard to tell, his clothing has the same color scheme and his body type also seems to match quite well, it's just the face that looks so radically different that I'm really not sure. Rymus has a single light blue skin color, nostrils, pointy ears and red hair. Zeno of course has purple sides, no nose at all, tube ears and no hair. My guess is that Zeno is a reincarnation of Rymus and looks a bit different because of that but the relationship between them is not clear.

Oh and Saiyans are explicitly not from the demon realm, they and earthlings are stated to be a product of the multiverse itself. Just in case anyone thought they were because of the Oozaru having pointy ears.

[CyberCubed]

I think all the lore drops have been my favorite part of Daima. Toriyama fleshing out the world/universe more and more is exciting, it's a real shame this turned out to be his final work before he passed because you wonder where he was going with all this. We'd probably wind up learning the creation of life itself and the very first universe.

Oh and Majin Kuu turning out to be a joke character is brilliant, I thought his design was underwhelming the last episode but this proved he was never going to be the main villain. He was hilarious, I actually hope he doesn't get killed off or fused or whatever and they keep him as a errand/shopping boy like he said lol

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think all the lore drops have been my favorite part of Daima. Toriyama fleshing out the world/universe more and more is exciting, it's a real shame this turned out to be his final work before he passed because you wonder where he was going with all this. We'd probably wind up learning the creation of life itself and the very first universe.

Oh and Majin Kuu turning out to be a joke character is brilliant, I thought his design was underwhelming the last episode but this proved he was never going to be the main villain. He was hilarious, I actually hope he doesn't get killed off or fused or whatever and they keep him as a errand/shopping boy like he said lol

One thing I noticed about Majin Kuu is he didn't seem to show any Majin Buu traits. Might be because he's too much Saibaiman, but he never stretched himself, fire candy beams or had a chance to show that he can regenerate if he ever got dismembered or anything. It is noticable that can talk just fine unlike Kid Buu or the Saibaimans.

[neatoman]

Saw this image on 4chan alleging an announcement of the Super manga's return next year, take it with a grain of salt, if it's real then the announcement has to happen next week at Jump Festa so it's not like it can string anyone along if it's fake.

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