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Old 09-28-2018, 05:54 AM   #41
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Of course. My first Turtle comic ever was like TMNTA #6. My "Odyssey" comic with Lawson even brought in several TMNTA characters. And the Turnstone.



I think even Fred Wolf with "the return of the action" is still pretty far removed from any kind of TMNT I'm interested in watching.

I'd much rather invest that time in, like, catching up on "Vikings" episodes. Or independent films. Or old westerns I've never seen. Or pretty much anything.
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:29 AM   #42
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I'm happy to be talking turtles with each of you, and I appreciate the variety of opinions here.

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Did you ever test the Archie TMNT Adventures comics? They began adopting episodes of the Fred Wolf cartoon before developing new stories, some of them dark for being a children's comic.
Okay, I'll definitely check those out. Thanks for the recommendation.

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Maybe you will also like seasons 8-10 (1994–1996) of the Fred Wolf series?
Oh, certainly not. I tried to watch an episode from season 10, but couldn't even get through ten minutes of it. The production values were awful, the action was embarrassing, and the vocal performances were as awkward and unnatural as the dialogue.

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I don't see the point in coming on here declaring those aspects of the franchise turn people off, they clearly don't.
Well, they turned me off. I don't mean to speak for others; I'd rather hear what others have to say on the matter, yourself included.

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I'd much rather invest that time in, like, catching up on "Vikings" episodes. Or independent films. Or old westerns I've never seen. Or pretty much anything.
Yeah, I'm with you there. Despite how many of you are recommending the 1990 film, or the "4Kids" series ("For kids?" There's a red flag right there! ), I also think there are much better shows I could be watching.

I've been showing students and friends clips from many other iterations of the franchise, both new and old, and nothing seems to compare to Nick's 2012 series... for it has become the TMNT standard for me, and I find myself rejecting any show that doesn't have the same cast, the same quality of animation, the same witty dialogue, or the same appealing character designs.

The only other Turtles show I've found enjoyable so far is the "Half-Shell Heroes" spin-off, and there only seems to be one episode. What's up with that?

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Old 09-28-2018, 10:01 AM   #43
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Yeah, I'm with you there. Despite how many of you are recommending the 1990 film, or the "4Kids" series ("For kids?" There's a red flag right there! ), I also think there are much better shows I could be watching.

I've been showing students and friends clips from many other iterations of the franchise, both new and old, and nothing seems to compare to Nick's 2012 series... for it has become the TMNT standard for me, and I find myself rejecting any show that doesn't have the same cast, the same quality of animation, the same witty dialogue, or the same appealing character designs.

The only other Turtles show I've found enjoyable so far is the "Half-Shell Heroes" spin-off, and there only seems to be one episode. What's up with that?
Yeah it's my favourite version too, but we are in a minority with that here I think, though there are plenty who like it of course as well as those who don't (same with everything)

As for the 4 kids, aka 2003 Turtles, I'm watching that at the moment, trying to fill my turtle gap, I like it enough so far but so far as comparing it to Mirage I don't know, not read that yet.

Heros in a half shell was just a special, though from the ending it seemed there was room to for another to follow on, there wasn't one.

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Old 09-28-2018, 10:53 AM   #44
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Ciro Nieli and his staff were writing for a much older audience






But credit to it. My daughter really liked it and we enjoyed watching it together at least until around the end of season 3. It's quintessentially not the Turtles, but it's not a badly made show and it's chuckleable.

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Old 09-28-2018, 03:27 PM   #45
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I'unno. 4Kids/2003 is the only cartoon show they've had that doesn't annoy me too much after a few episodes. Then again, I didn't get up to the Fast Forward stuff. That's me, though.

I can appreciate the original as something that I loved as a kid, but it grates on me now after a bit. And the April/Donnie stuff really killed the Nick show for me, I couldn't keep watching after a point. So the 4Kids show wins by default. It's not perfect, but it's the closest so far to what I'd want to watch in a TMNT show.

I'unno.
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Old 09-28-2018, 04:05 PM   #46
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4Kid's TMNT is probably the only decent thing the company has ever turned out. There were some small things they stuck to that were typical for the company: the absolute no gray between good and evil, the origin of Leo badgering Karai because she's loyal to Shredder and that's not honorable and she should be a good guy!. Also the origin of Karai as Shredder's adoptive daughter, but not even a little vindictive and creepy.


Other than that, it almost feels like it was done by something different.


It had Casey grow the fvck up and get his act together. April wasn't the prize in a gross love triangle; she retains her "big sister" role. The two of them have great chemistry even when they're friends (making the TCRI break-in a whole new level of gold). It actually lets them build a romantic relationship like adults rather than cram it in because we need drama. Shredder had an element of danger that other versions hadn't reached and also didn't have an incel complex.

It's a pretty good show for at least the first four seasons. Just gotta get over the hoop that is the early 2000's idea of "cool".



But...IDW is still the one I recommend more. It actually is writing with much older audience in mind. The equal "PG-13" rating doesn't really mean it's geared toward teenage fans; it's very much for older fans.
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:19 PM   #47
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Are you really avoiding the 4kids version cause its "for kids"

You just put a big post up praising something Nickelodeon created
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:46 PM   #48
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As much as I absolutely love the 2012 series, the 2003 series is a close second-place for me. It's a lot darker in tone than the 80's series. Don't let the "4kids" thing fool you. It has solid storylines, great action, lovable characters, and decent animation. As many have said, the first five seasons are really good. While I think Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer are entertaining enough, things changed drastically from the first five seasons.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:34 PM   #49
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4kids is the name of the company, they're best known for dubbing Pokemon and other anime in the late 90's and early 2000's. 4kids worked with Peter Laird for the 2003 cartoon.
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Old 09-29-2018, 01:11 AM   #50
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I'unno. 4Kids/2003 is the only cartoon show they've had that doesn't annoy me too much after a few episodes. Then again, I didn't get up to the Fast Forward stuff. That's me, though.

I can appreciate the original as something that I loved as a kid, but it grates on me now after a bit. And the April/Donnie stuff really killed the Nick show for me, I couldn't keep watching after a point. So the 4Kids show wins by default. It's not perfect, but it's the closest so far to what I'd want to watch in a TMNT show.

I'unno.
Yeah, 4kids was a pretty solid cartoon.

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4Kid's TMNT is probably the only decent thing the company has ever turned out. There were some small things they stuck to that were typical for the company: the absolute no gray between good and evil, the origin of Leo badgering Karai because she's loyal to Shredder and that's not honorable and she should be a good guy!. Also the origin of Karai as Shredder's adoptive daughter, but not even a little vindictive and creepy.


Other than that, it almost feels like it was done by something different.


It had Casey grow the fvck up and get his act together. April wasn't the prize in a gross love triangle; she retains her "big sister" role. The two of them have great chemistry even when they're friends (making the TCRI break-in a whole new level of gold). It actually lets them build a romantic relationship like adults rather than cram it in because we need drama. Shredder had an element of danger that other versions hadn't reached and also didn't have an incel complex.

It's a pretty good show for at least the first four seasons. Just gotta get over the hoop that is the early 2000's idea of "cool".



But...IDW is still the one I recommend more. It actually is writing with much older audience in mind. The equal "PG-13" rating doesn't really mean it's geared toward teenage fans; it's very much for older fans.
Yeah the show kinda jumped the shark after season 4 and the Ninja Tribunal. But tbh we're lucky it got as many episodes as it did.I originally expected it to have 2-3 seasons max. Never thought it'd have surpassed the 100 episode mark.

The how holds up well in terms of animation and art, imo. The only thing that feels dated about it are the Guardians being an obvious reference/parody of The Matrix, which was a HUGE movie franchise at the time.
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Old 09-29-2018, 03:58 AM   #51
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My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right.

Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool."
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:00 AM   #52
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When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.
That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself.

Now, since so many of you have recommended it to me, I've tried to watch the first couple episodes of the 4Kids series, and it's... not bad, really. Certainly better than I feared it would be. It's almost the anti-Fred Wolf, trying desperately to avoid all the changes the earlier series made to the franchise, and it's definitely the better for it.

I rather liken this series to Schwarzenegger's original Terminator, and the 2012 series to Terminator 2. I can respect The Terminator, Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the character and how it drives the plot, but it lacks the charm, the humor, and the heart of Terminator 2. T2 is eye candy, with glorious production values and spectacular action set pieces that would've been impossible to achieve on the budget of the original film, just as the production design, lighting and texturing, and fight choreography in Nick's CGI series would've been impossible to produce using the limited hand-drawn animation of the 4Kids production. Sure, TMNT 2012 is a little cheesier -- just as T2 was -- but the 2003 series is totally lacking in charm... and the humor is anemic. (Not as infantile as the Fred Wolf series, of course, but just as ineffective nonetheless.)

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?



That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with!

To extend the metaphor, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles feels very much like Terminator: Salvation does to me; apart from character names, I don't recognize anything from the earlier series. The setting is completely different, the characters look and act completely differently, and the story seems shallow and pointless. I can appreciate the production values and the effects work, but it's impossible to engage with any of the characters.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:44 AM   #53
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I'm out of this conversation tbh, this guy really irks me and seems to have an opinion on things he has very very very little knowledge on

Its borderline trolling
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:55 AM   #54
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And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with!
It was the early 2000s; you had to be there. I can still close my eyes and envision the flip phones, frosted tips, and news clips of Bush 43.

I personally grew up on this show and it was my gateway drug to the Mirage comics. Also, I never watched the 1990 film until I was a teenager.

It's interesting to read how your ideas of the TMNT have developed over the last few decades.
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[TMNT 1990 director Steve] Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 09-29-2018, 10:21 AM   #55
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My strongest feelings about the 4Kids show are that I'm glad it exists as a counterpoint to everything else in the kiddy arena, and proof positive that we don't need Beebops and Krang and Pizza Throwers to sell to a generation of little kids. Basically validating everything Laird has believed since the beginning. Because he is right.
So basically, you may not like it personally but it's still better to have kids grow up with Karai, Fugitoid and Renet, rather than Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang?

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Additionally, that it's f***ed up (and yet quite telling of the agenda at hand) that it gets no love in larger media, like in any of 2012's million crossovers with Fred Wolf. I don't like it, but I feel like it is a far better face for children's gateway drug to TMNT than anything else. And it was, for a generation. When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.

Yeah, IDW has shown some love to it in their jambalaya pot, but Nick doesn't really heavily vet that beyond "No Turtles shedding blood or killing even though they're supposed to be ninjas? OK, cool."
I'm not sure about "agenda", I just think Nick excecs foolishly believe they can recreate the success of the Fred Wolf cartoon by cramming in references to it.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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Old 09-29-2018, 12:41 PM   #56
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That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself.

Now, since so many of you have recommended it to me, I've tried to watch the first couple episodes of the 4Kids series, and it's... not bad, really. Certainly better than I feared it would be. It's almost the anti-Fred Wolf, trying desperately to avoid all the changes the earlier series made to the franchise, and it's definitely the better for it.

I rather liken this series to Schwarzenegger's original Terminator, and the 2012 series to Terminator 2. I can respect The Terminator, Schwarzenegger's portrayal of the character and how it drives the plot, but it lacks the charm, the humor, and the heart of Terminator 2. T2 is eye candy, with glorious production values and spectacular action set pieces that would've been impossible to achieve on the budget of the original film, just as the production design, lighting and texturing, and fight choreography in Nick's CGI series would've been impossible to produce using the limited hand-drawn animation of the 4Kids production. Sure, TMNT 2012 is a little cheesier -- just as T2 was -- but the 2003 series is totally lacking in charm... and the humor is anemic. (Not as infantile as the Fred Wolf series, of course, but just as ineffective nonetheless.)

And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

https://orig00.deviantart.net/1826/f...55-dbiitbs.jpg

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with!

To extend the metaphor, Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles feels very much like Terminator: Salvation does to me; apart from character names, I don't recognize anything from the earlier series. The setting is completely different, the characters look and act completely differently, and the story seems shallow and pointless. I can appreciate the production values and the effects work, but it's impossible to engage with any of the characters.
The series begins to hit its stride once the Turtles meet the Shredder and reaches even more mature heights in Season 3, but I still really enjoy the more fun and wholesome moments from the show's earlier episodes before the Turtles' feud with the Foot and Bishop took over their lives. Not saying that the first few seasons are bad, but based on your tastes you would probably like the later episodes more. Also, April and Casey get redesigns in the last season, so no more early 2000s bare midriff, just like how April in the Fred Wolf cartoon ditched her yellow jumpsuit for the last few seasons.
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:54 PM   #57
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And a scientist in a lab coat, with cargo pants and a bare midriff?

https://orig00.deviantart.net/1826/f...55-dbiitbs.jpg

That's as ridiculous as anything the original cartoon came up with!
I've been trying to figure out all day if this was a joke or not. April wearing a lab coat over her daily clothes is as ridiculous as anything from the original cartoon? So Donatello becoming the size of a sky scraper is more realistic than April wearing a lab coat over her regular clothes. But I suppose Ice Cream kitty makes more sense?
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Old 09-29-2018, 11:37 PM   #58
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When I was dating, I was tasked with acquiring various things related to this show for a young man who loved it.
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That's ironic. I was tasked with acquiring various things related to that show for a young girl I was dating, who loved it herself. .
I realize my post could be misconstrued there. I was dating a lady and the "young man" was her son. Got him a bunch of 4Kids stuff and he was thrilled.
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Old 10-01-2018, 08:32 AM   #59
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I was dating a lady and the "young man" was her son.
Yeah, "dating a single mother" was obvious in context.

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Donatello becoming the size of a sky scraper is more realistic than April wearing a lab coat over her regular clothes. But I suppose Ice Cream kitty makes more sense?
The size of a skyscraper...?
I stand corrected. I know very little of the original cartoon.

Oh, and -- just for the record -- I despise Ice Cream Kitty.
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Old 10-01-2018, 09:43 AM   #60
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Yeah, not a fan of Ice Cream Kitty either. I thought it was cute with Klunk, you know how the fantastical characters have a regular pet, like Data and Spot. It also worked with Spike early on, a little extra amusing with him being a turtle himself. Ice Cream Kitty just seems like perversion of Klunk, not only going against the quality that made Klunk and Spike work but doing so in the dumbest way imaginable.
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Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!
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