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Old 02-07-2017, 01:05 PM   #281
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It'd be exactly what happened with the Lois and Clark series, once DC settled on making the classic Superman and Lois the main characters again instead of the New 52 versions, that book was swiftly cancelled.
Ironically, that's one reason I'd hope that OMD wasn't undone for 616; I'm not interested in reading 616 comics (at this point, I'm pretty sure as second OMD would come around somewhere along the line), but I am following the RYV series and am interested in this iteration of the characters.

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What was curious about that was that the Lois and Clark series in itself wasn't actually a big seller for DC, yet it got all the acclaim from the fans at the time where as the N52/DC You mainline titles continued to struggle. RYV is in a similar posistion right now...not a big seller, but getting all the acclaim while the mainline book struggles to satisfy it's audience
Yeah, that's a lot of irony there.

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Whether Marvel does something similar to Rebirth (i.e merge the RYV canon with the mainline canon using the reality-bending character responsible for turning Steve into Hydra Cap) is up to them, but Secret Empire can offer a pretty quick fix for everything if they go that route.
Well, we've have to see what they have in mind. It could very well be that Spider-Man will be business as usual. After all, I've gathered that Parker Industries Spider-Man hasn't been as hated as, say, Hydra-Cap, the X-Men being replaced by the Inhumans, RiRi Williams Iron Man, etc.
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:16 AM   #282
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Renew Your Vows#4 was passable,

Spoiler:
Most of it was Peter and MJ getting in each other's way and squabbling until Annie put her neck on the line again, but it was a comfy kind of quarraling so I did'nt much mind it.

Thought MJ saying Normie made her skin crawl was a bit out-of-character, is'nt Normie her godson?

And Annie has a codename, and it is'nt Amp, it's Spiderling. She wants to be called Spider-Girl, but Peter says it's already taken. Does this mean there's an Anya in the Vows 'verse?


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Well, we've have to see what they have in mind. It could very well be that Spider-Man will be business as usual. After all, I've gathered that Parker Industries Spider-Man hasn't been as hated as, say, Hydra-Cap, the X-Men being replaced by the Inhumans, RiRi Williams Iron Man, etc.
Parker Industries does have it's detractors, and Marvel are hinting at ending that angle with the arc following Clone Conspiracy, "The Osborn Identity"
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:33 AM   #283
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Parker Industries does have it's detractors...
Yeah, I've poked around a comic forum and I've gathered that there are plenty of readers who're sick of it. (There are also readers who love it, too, but that par for the course.[/quote]

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...and Marvel are hinting at ending that angle with the arc following Clone Conspiracy, "The Osborn Identity"
It could very well be that that this was Slott plan regardless of what the larger Marvel comics plan is.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:06 PM   #284
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It could very well be that that this was Slott plan regardless of what the larger Marvel comics plan is.
Yeah, Slott has been tying up all of his loose ends lately, it's possible he's either moving on to new ideas or he's about to step down from the book. He's boasted about staying on the book 'till he's fired or drops dead, but he's been known to lie a lot.

What did you think of the latest RYV issue?
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:21 PM   #285
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Yeah, Slott has been tying up all of his loose ends lately, it's possible he's either moving on to new ideas or he's about to step down from the book. He's boasted about staying on the book 'till he's fired or drops dead, but he's been known to lie a lot.
Time will tell, although given that Marvel has been ostensibly happy with his run, it would seem if he's stepping down, it's not because he's being ordered to.

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What did you think of the latest RYV issue?
Haven't had a chance to get it yet. I may have to wait until next week.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:18 AM   #286
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Time will tell, although given that Marvel has been ostensibly happy with his run, it would seem if he's stepping down, it's not because he's being ordered to.
Did you happen to read CBR's latest article on "Worst Comic Events?", they actually listed Slott's Superior Spider-Man as being worse than OMD.
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:40 AM   #287
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Did you happen to read CBR's latest article on "Worst Comic Events?", they actually listed Slott's Superior Spider-Man as being worse than OMD.
You mean this?

Wow, you're right. I thought that it was generally liked once it got started. I tried it and hated it, but for some reason, I got the idea that it was generally considered Slott's last really great story in the main ASM line. The stuff between SSM and Secret Wars seems to be considered okay at best, I'm getting really mixed reviews over the post-Secret Wars stuff. The only thing Slot did after SSM that really seems to be considered great was his RYV miniseries.

Amazing that Civil War II is still brand new and already getting flack.

Kind of surprised that "One More Day" got so low on the list, much lower that Clone Saga. I've heard that the latter has some redeeming stuff, while I have yet to hear anyone say anything good about OMD; even people who think it was the right call and ultimately fixed the comics seem to agree that it was a basically a bad story overall.

Given that it's one opinion, though, I'm not sure how much it reflects the fanbase at large or Marvel's opinion on Slott's work. At long as it sells well, I'm guessing his job security is probably okay. I mean, as of right now, none of the other Spider-Man-themed books are outselling his stuff.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:37 AM   #288
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Wow, you're right. I thought that it was generally liked once it got started. I tried it and hated it, but for some reason, I got the idea that it was generally considered Slott's last really great story in the main ASM line. The stuff between SSM and Secret Wars seems to be considered okay at best, I'm getting really mixed reviews over the post-Secret Wars stuff. The only thing Slot did after SSM that really seems to be considered great was his RYV miniseries.
Haven't you noticed Slott's best work in 2014 and 2015 were when he was reined in by familiar status quoes? Learning to Crawl was leagues better than his ASM V3 work because it was based in the Lee/Ditko era, and RYV was a smash because he wrote Peter and MJ as a stable loving couple with a fresh element in a young child.

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Amazing that Civil War II is still brand new and already getting flack.
CW II was'nt desired right out of the gate I feel, everyone saw it as a petty cash-grab for the movie, delays from the artist meant it did'nt tie up sooner and many books had to initiate their new status quoes while it was going on, Ms. Marvel's usually upbeat book was largely derailed and reduced to monthly misery, Miles had more to do in the story than Peter Parker (who's sole contribution to the event was barely doing anything in some lame-ass tie-in mini-series) , and worst of all, it became public knowledge Bendis had completly changed his mind on how it should end, so fans became frustrated that there was no real long-term plan for it.

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Kind of surprised that "One More Day" got so low on the list, much lower that Clone Saga. I've heard that the latter has some redeeming stuff, while I have yet to hear anyone say anything good about OMD; even people who think it was the right call and ultimately fixed the comics seem to agree that it was a basically a bad story overall.
It's a bad story in concept and mostly execution (there's just no way to justify half of the motivations), but I actually think it has some pretty powerful scenes in it, which is a credit to JMS' writing ability, and Quesada for all his flaws as an editor, is a good artist.

The one thing that gets overlooked is how, despite how tragic the ending is, MJ's speech to Peter about how their love will ultimately overcome whatever Mephisto does to them one day leaves you with a sense of hope, and sort of excuses all of their behaviour up 'till now as just the influence of chaos magic.

Clone Saga had it's moments, storylines within it that were good included "The Lost Years" "The Exile Returns", "Web of Death", "Web of Life", it pretty much turns to s*it as soon as Aunt May dies in "The Gift" (ASM#400) and does'nt get much better until half-way through Ben Reily's tenure as Spider-Man.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:01 PM   #289
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Finally did get my Issue 4 copy. Liked it overall. The story did seem a little rushed, but as an opening stretch, I liked it. I read these things for the characters, and they delivered on that front.

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Haven't you noticed Slott's best work in 2014 and 2015 were when he was reined in by familiar status quoes? Learning to Crawl was leagues better than his ASM V3 work because it was based in the Lee/Ditko era, and RYV was a smash because he wrote Peter and MJ as a stable loving couple with a fresh element in a young child.
Never read "Learning to Crawl," so I can't speak for that one. As for the RYV, who can say? It could've well been a badly written story, so I guess he put in the work needed to bring it up to par.

I'm actually more curious why his RYV Peter is closer to the more traditional character, given that a common complaint I've heard is that his 616 Peter feels out of character a lot of the time. Why did Slott not do that in RYV, or use the RYV characterization in his 616 stuff, for that matter?


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CW II was'nt desired right out of the gate I feel, everyone saw it as a petty cash-grab for the movie, delays from the artist meant it did'nt tie up sooner and many books had to initiate their new status quoes while it was going on, Ms. Marvel's usually upbeat book was largely derailed and reduced to monthly misery, Miles had more to do in the story than Peter Parker (who's sole contribution to the event was barely doing anything in some lame-ass tie-in mini-series) , and worst of all, it became public knowledge Bendis had completly changed his mind on how it should end, so fans became frustrated that there was no real long-term plan for it.
I understand that it hasn't been a fan favorite. I guess I was kind of surprised that it being quantified so quickly, esp. since some of the other ones on that list made it on because of their legacies, like Superior Spider-Man got put on largely because of how pointless it was in the long run, or how DC's Flashpoint was on because it lead the way to the New 52 stuff, despite the fact that I've heard good things about the "Flastpoint" story itself.

I guess if I was going to analyze CWII, I'd take more time so that it could examined after more time had passed and we could see the effects of it; was it just a weak story, or did it screw up comics that were created after it as well.


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It's a bad story in concept and mostly execution (there's just no way to justify half of the motivations), but I actually think it has some pretty powerful scenes in it, which is a credit to JMS' writing ability, and Quesada for all his flaws as an editor, is a good artist.
Okay. That's one thing I'm never going to read, given how distasteful I find the whole point of it. I'd sooner read Ultimatum, personally.

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The one thing that gets overlooked is how, despite how tragic the ending is, MJ's speech to Peter about how their love will ultimately overcome whatever Mephisto does to them one day leaves you with a sense of hope, and sort of excuses all of their behaviour up 'till now as just the influence of chaos magic.
I've honestly taken that as Marvel stringing the readers around. Maybe they left it in as a trap door in case it completely blew up in their faces, but, at this point, I think the storytelling decisions Marvel has made were calculated to burn as many bridges as possible to prevent OMD from being undone. Heck, the Superior comics had ghost Peter thinking that breaking up with MJ was the right decision and it ended with MJ severing ties with Peter completely. I'm 99% sure that the promise at the end of OMD is pretty much worthless right now (unless you count the Ultimate comics and RYV series as fulfillment in the meta sense).
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:18 PM   #290
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I've honestly taken that as Marvel stringing the readers around. Maybe they left it in as a trap door in case it completely blew up in their faces, but, at this point, I think the storytelling decisions Marvel has made were calculated to burn as many bridges as possible to prevent OMD from being undone. Heck, the Superior comics had ghost Peter thinking that breaking up with MJ was the right decision and it ended with MJ severing ties with Peter completely. I'm 99% sure that the promise at the end of OMD is pretty much worthless right now (unless you count the Ultimate comics and RYV series as fulfillment in the meta sense).
I disagree, Marvel have made it clear from hints last year that Peter and MJ's behaviour has been the result of devil magic and that their characters would, without that influence, make rational decisions and find common ground and understanding as before, as is evident by how the characters continue to be written together in RYV and the Newspaper Strip. Marvel KNOW that's how Peter and MJ act, and expect you to get angry or disheartened at the fact the post-OMD versions are nothing like that anymore.

I don't view RYV and the Strip as "wish fulfilment", they are legit universes with valid characters, the latter has been around since the 70s. It's perfectly fine to be invested in them without feeling like they're just a bone being thrown to us. The strip has ensured the marriage has made it to thirty years uninterupted. I know you like to play the strip down as being niche or it's own thing or whatever, but to me that's a seminal acheivement and it shouldnt be brushed off because it's not mainline canon.

Why would they have Mephisto taunt Peter about his loss, have Peter sucker punch a simulcrum of Mephisto in Silver Surfer, and acknowledge RYV via deja vu in 616 if it wasn't leading anywhere?

I think between you and me, I'm more of the optimist. I beleive the marriage will be mainline agan.

And Ghost Peter was thankful Doc Ock breaking up with MJ was the right decision, the alternative was her being raped by him.

The real MJ would never severe ties with Peter, just as I know Peter would never make half the childish decisions he's made since OMD. It's all to do with the deal, and I feel my views will be validated sooner or later, just as they were today with Superior being decreed worse than OMD by a site that normally heaps praise on Marvel in return for exclusives.

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Old 02-09-2017, 10:00 PM   #291
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I disagree, Marvel have made it clear from hints last year that Peter and MJ's behaviour has been the result of devil magic and that their characters would, without that influence, make rational decisions and find common ground and understanding as before, as is evident by how the characters continue to be written together in RYV and the Newspaper Strip. Marvel KNOW that's how Peter and MJ act, and expect you to get angry or disheartened at the fact the post-OMD versions are nothing like that anymore.
That's really wonky marketing, IMHO. I don't want to read something to get mad at it.

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I don't view RYV and the Strip as "wish fulfilment", they are legit universes with valid characters, the latter has been around since the 70s. It's perfectly fine to be invested in them without feeling like they're just a bone being thrown to us.
I didn't mean that. I guess what I was trying to say is that I'm wondering if, with the RYV series running currently, if Marvel will see the need to undo OMD in 616.

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The strip has ensured the marriage has made it to thirty years uninterupted. I know you like to play the strip down as being niche or it's own thing or whatever, but to me that's a seminal acheivement and it shouldnt be brushed off because it's not mainline canon.
I don't hate it. Often on, I will catch up on it online. However, the pacing and tone is not exactly what I'd want for my main source of Spider-Man material.

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Why would they have Mephisto taunt Peter about his loss, have Peter sucker punch a simulcrum of Mephisto in Silver Surfer, and acknowledge RYV via deja vu in 616 if it wasn't leading anywhere?
Fan service? Lead up to a second OMD installment that won't undo the status quo? The RVY reference could've just been an in-joke; it doesn't make any sense in any case, even from a "they're building up to an OMD reversal?"

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I think between you and me, I'm more of the optimist. I beleive the marriage will be mainline agan.
I don't trust them, based on their track record and all the time and effort put into the "OMD is good" bandwagon.

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And Ghost Peter was thankful Doc Ock breaking up with MJ was the right decision, the alternative was her being raped by him.
Oh. Okay.

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The real MJ would never severe ties with Peter, just as I know Peter would never make half the childish decisions he's made since OMD. It's all to do with the deal, and I feel my views will be validated sooner or later, just as they were today with Superior being decreed worse than OMD by a site that normally heaps praise on Marvel in return for exclusives.
Time will tell.
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Old 02-10-2017, 12:44 AM   #292
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Peter and MJ make number two on this official Marvel Couples video, and we get another OMD reference.

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Old 02-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #293
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Peter and MJ make number two on this official Marvel Couples video, and we get another OMD reference.
Kind of funny how so many of those couples didn't work out. It's like the writers don't like it or something.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:28 PM   #294
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Kind of funny how so many of those couples didn't work out.
We'll probably be saying the same thing about Sharon and Steve by the end of Secret Empire

That's just the persistent bane of an ongoing soap opera...some writers will want to take the characters North and South and put their own stamp on them, and might not take to the fact they have to be saddled with an existing relationship, it feels sort of like you sign on to be the guy to keep a house in order, and you're told to keep one room in it exactly the way it is. Some writers can feel constrained to that, even if it's the good of the house ultimately.

At least Peter and MJ still have ongoing universes where they have made it work, and where the writers don't seem to have ever tired of it.

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Old 02-11-2017, 02:28 AM   #295
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Here's some fan-art from a professional friend of mine

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Old 02-11-2017, 07:20 AM   #296
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Here's some fan-art from a professional friend of mine

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads...crane+game.jpg
That's pretty good. Looks like it should be the subject of a special alternate cover.
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Old 02-13-2017, 01:14 PM   #298
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Thumbs up.

So, Mary Jane has her hair down on the cover, but is wearing the bun in the story proper. Wonder if that's going to factor into the plot somehow, or if it's like the last issue, where the cover doesn't reflect the contents exactly.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:56 AM   #299
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Daredevil#17 has another OMD Nod

Spoiler:
Hellstrom brings up that Mephisto has experiance with erasing people's memories of secret identities (this is a flashback issue detailing how Matt made everyone forget he was Daredevil
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:13 AM   #300
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Daredevil#17 has another OMD Nod

Spoiler:
Hellstrom brings up that Mephisto has experiance with erasing people's memories of secret identities (this is a flashback issue detailing how Matt made everyone forget he was Daredevil
I thought Doctor Strange did the erasing for in Spider-Man's case.
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