Hamato Yoshi. Bad dude?

[ToTheNines]

I'm sure this discussion has been had before, but what is everyone's take on the ideal backstory for Yoshi? Let's compare what we got:

Mirage: A straight up member of the Foot Clan. He's probably somewhere near Karai on the moral compass, but we can reasonably assume he was a killer and a thief. No one ever really ponders on this too much, he's just framed as righteous in his murder of Oroku Nagi and that's that. It fits into the overall theme of Mirage, but was this guy even worth avenging?

FW: Barely remember the origin, but he was in the Foot and got kicked out then Shredder turned them into criminals?

1990: One of Japan's "finest shadow warriors". We can reasonably assume he was in the Foot, but it's very vague. He was Saki's rival, but I guess they could have been different clans.

2003: Ok, now we're getting into full on "good guy" Yoshi territory, but it's at least still interesting. The 4kids show does the heavy lifting of finding Yoshi a modern-day career as a ninja, and overall, I like it. He is raised alongside a Nagi expy, so that part stays intact. We get more back story and see that he was orphaned by WWII and raised by The Ancient One.

But as much as I can buy that the Utroms would hire ninjas to run their security (they did crash land in Feudal Japan, so they've probably been doing this for centuries), it's a little too convenient that shortly after Yoshi's death, Splinter witnesses the truck accident/we go into the standard TCRI origin.

It just makes TCRI feel too omnipresent. I always liked the idea of Splinter and/or the turtles being mutated on purpose (by Yoshi or Splinter himself) if Yoshi's going to already be mixed up with the Utroms.

IDW: This might be the best take on Yoshi. You get the best of both worlds with the human or rat origin, and he's shown to be a full-fledged ninja in the flashback stuff. He doesn't swear off violence until he loses his wife, then his sons. And he eventually gets over that.

2012: Again, more good guy Yoshi and more vagueness. I don't really understand the function of the Hamato Clan, but they do at least have Tang Shen talking about how it's an antiquated way of life and expressing frustration with the whole thing. We do know that the Hamato clan was in a war against the Foot as recently as 40 years ago

I felt like the addition of Miwa was a nice touch and made Shen's death even more poignant, but I also feel like they kind of glossed over the fact that Saki was raised as Yoshi's adopted brother.

PD and MM: Oh wait... he doesn't even exist lol

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Mirage: A straight up member of the Foot Clan. He's probably somewhere near Karai on the moral compass, but we can reasonably assume he was a killer and a thief. No one ever really ponders on this too much, he's just framed as righteous in his murder of Oroku Nagi and that's that. It fits into the overall theme of Mirage, but was this guy even worth avenging?

This is why I think "honorable ninja" is an oxymoron.

[neatoman]

Bad dude? As in...?

Spoiler:

Anyway, as originally conceived he was someone who cucked a violent psycho whom he killed after he "took his revenge". I'll just let you decide if that made him a bad person or not.

[IMJ]

In Fred Wolf I'm pretty sure they pencil-whip the word "honor" and Honorable" in relation to the original Foot Clan and the old Master whenever the story had cause to do so (i.e, the original 1st season, or the re-tread episode with Lord Shibano's ghost). But what "honorable ninjas" do in modern society is never really exemplified. And by contrast they make sure to explain that under Shredder the Foot Clan goes "criminal".

So basically it's safe word play, we just accept it and move on. I suppose we are to assume that an "honorable pre-Shredder Foot Clan" under Yoshi operated much the same way the "honorable Turtle Ninjas" operate under Yoshi.

I guess.

[TheLabRat]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

IDW: This might be the best take on Yoshi. You get the best of both worlds with the human or rat origin, and he's shown to be a full-fledged ninja in the flashback stuff. He doesn't swear off violence until he loses his wife, then his sons. And he eventually gets over that.

I don't think so, he choose to kill Saki and take over Foot Clan, he actually broke his oath and went against what he taught his sons.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

This is why I think "honorable ninja" is an oxymoron.

I've always thought of ninjas as agents and mercenaries who are willing to get their hands dirty for the good of themselves, their clan, their lord or a greater goal.

Just like in the anime "Basilisk", although the clan leaders of Koga and Iga decided to make peace, their daimyo master fear their growing power, ordered them to kill each other to weaken them. Although the clan leaders of both sides were unwilling, they still faithfully carried out the order.

[ZariusTwo]

The president has been kidnapped by ninjas

Is Hamato a bad enough dude to recue the president?

[ToTheNines]

Just realized I forgot Rise, oops.

I think Rise Splinter is the main reason I was repelled from Rise for 6 years lol. But after I forced myself to watch it all, I’m glad I did and his arc did pay off.

But while I like the idea of a bloodline of ninjas protecting the world from an ancient demon, I don’t understand why the daughter of Oroku Saki was named Hamato Karai. And then down the line, Yoshi’s mother is also a Hamato but there’s no evidence of a father. Definitely overthinking here.