So how do you feel about the first LESBIAN kiss in the TMNT franchise?

[CyberCubed]

I'm posting this here since not everyone visits the comic section or reads the IDW comics, so more people need to see this.

Jennika, who recently became a mutant female Turtle, kissed Sheena...who was a female rocker before she got mutated into a pig. They kissed in the newest issue of IDW #117 on pride month:



Jennika is the first "big" LGBT character in the TMNT franchise, a female Turtle who is also bisexual/lesbian. And Sheena is a new character for this series only debuted recently. Decades from now when people think of homosexuality in the TMNT franchise, people will mention this scene. So how do you feel about it?

Discuss and debate amongst yourselves.

[AquaParade]

Good for the people who care.

[Leo656]

Should'a been two much hotter chicks. Booooooooo!

Like I'unno, Alopex and... I'unno... she's the only IDW mutant I think is even a little bit "hot". But Her and Anyone would be a little bit more palatable from where I sit.

This kinda reminds me of the time I saw two hefty lesbians taking their clothes off and making out topless at the Rocky Horror Picture Show, when I went with a few of my friends once upon a time. Like "Okay, awesome, glad you're happy and you have every right to do what you're doing, but... man, nobody actually wants to look at this, specifically."

But that's me. Very particular about my lesbians!

...And still not sure why it needs to get a splash-panel in a TMNT comic. ((Shrug))

[IndigoErth]

Why am I not surprised at all by who is excited about it and making a thread...

Mostly, I don't care.

I don't keep up too closely with comics and don't know much about the earlier run of this one (yet), so I do have a question though:

Was Jennika already directly known (not via speculation from people who festishize it) to be bi since long ago in her earlier days in this comic, or is this something they only just shoved in there now?

If the former and always been a part of her character, fine, no big deal.

If the latter, that is a bit off putting. I'm all for inclusion (even if I'm not the target audience of those aspects and such images are a cringy to me), but I don't like when it's forced in late in the game or kept like a big secret; the "surprise lesbian!" thing is getting old. If they are then just let them BE the whole time, stop trying to spring it on the audience. It's turning into an overdone trope.

Personal gripe, what's also getting rather old these days is that it seems like in many cases in a lot of media the tougher girl isn't allowed to be straight anymore. It was nice to see that in this case she was kind of this badass woman who was with Casey -- and then, oh, never mind.


Honestly, I was hoping they'd just aim for actual "controversy" and have Jennika and Casey somehow work it out.

[Leo656]

I think the "rule" for female characters written by Campbell is, "They're all implicitly gay/bi unless stated otherwise."

Sure SEEMS like that's the rule.

I don't actually care if Jennika's queer or not because I don't give a single f*ck about Jennika, period. So I can't say it bothers me. But it does sort of lean into the whole "This character was created to check a very specific series of boxes" type of criticism she often gets. Like, it's really impossible to argue with that point, more and more.

[sdp]

it's the idw comics, no one "real" reads those, non canon for the mainstream masses.

It wouldn't even be the first lesbian kiss since I read on tumblr that 2012 donatello is trans so that kiss she gave april in the ice cream kitty music video is technically the first one.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Was Jennika already directly known (not via speculation from people who festishize it) to be bi since long ago in her earlier days in this comic, or is this something they only just shoved in there now? :

No, Jennika was straight for the first 50 issues as a human. She was introduced in issue #51. She had a crush on Casey for most of her run under Tom Waltz, and they dated off-screen but broke up. She also had a boyfriend before that in her backstory when she was a Foot Soldier in her mini-series.

She only suddenly became bisexual/lesbian after she got mutated into a Turtle under Sophie's run. She was written 100% straight as a human, even having her flirt with Casey for a long time before he noticed her.



She was going after Casey for like 50 issues...when she got mutated and Sophie wrote her as bisexual.

[Coola Yagami]

Idk it makes the comic feel like it leans into fanfic territory.

Least they have more leeway with the original characters. It's not Raph and Casey making out. Or Bebop and Rocksteady.

[sdp]

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

No, Jennika was straight for the first 50 issues as a human. She was introduced in issue #51. She had a crush on Casey for most of her run under Tom Waltz, and they dated off-screen but broke up. She also had a boyfriend before that in her backstory when she was a Foot Soldier in her mini-series.

She only suddenly became bisexual/lesbian after she got mutated into a Turtle under Sophie's run. She was written 100% straight as a human, even having her flirt with Casey for a long time before he noticed her.

All valid, BUT: "The Absence of Evidence, is NOT the Evidence of Absence."

Theoretically, she could have also liked girls the whole time and just not spoken of it. OR something hadn't "clicked" yet. I've known both men and women who either didn't develop or didn't admit to having any same-sex attraction until much later in life. If you asked them as teens or in their 20s, they'd say they were totally straight, but then later on Something Changed, whether that was meeting someone who "flipped their trigger" or otherwise they were in denial when they were younger.

I tease and I make jokes, but the truth is I have no problem at all with queer people and completely understand how some people insist that attraction is a fluid thing. There's definitely degrees of it. Some people are only "incidentally bisexual", or only attracted to very specific people. For some people it's "a mood", like they're straight 99% of the time but some days they'll feel "gay" for whatever reason.

I do agree, however, that in regard to fictional characters, there's times when trying to present this does not come off as being organic at all and feels more like "checking boxes". Especially when someone who's never exhibited any of these thoughts or feelings is "suddenly" queer. We can see their thought balloons, this sort of thing should come up if it's legit who they are and not a complete retcon. It's like "Iceman is suddenly gay, Alan Scott is suddenly gay, etc... despite the fact that in decades upon decades of Third-Person Omniscient Storytelling, we the reader have NEVER seen even a HINT of this before, and now suddenly it's a Big huge part of who they are." Hard to really buy into.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by sdp

https://64.media.tumblr.com/77bc40aa...o2_r1_1280.png

"My man!!!"

"My maaaan!!"

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by Leo656

All valid, BUT: "The Absence of Evidence, is NOT the Evidence of Absence."

Theoretically, she could have also liked girls the whole time and just not spoken of it. OR something hadn't "clicked" yet. I've known both men and women who either didn't develop or didn't admit to having any same-sex attraction until much later in life. If you asked them as teens or in their 20s, they'd say they were totally straight, but then later on Something Changed, whether that was meeting someone who "flipped their trigger" or otherwise they were in denial when they were younger.

I tease and I make jokes, but the truth is I have no problem at all with queer people and completely understand how some people insist that attraction is a fluid thing. There's definitely degrees of it. Some people are only "incidentally bisexual", or only attracted to very specific people. For some people it's "a mood", like they're straight 99% of the time but some days they'll feel "gay" for whatever reason.

I do agree, however, that in regard to fictional characters, there's times when trying to present this does not come off as being organic at all and feels more like "checking boxes". Especially when someone who's never exhibited any of these thoughts or feelings is "suddenly" queer. We can see their thought balloons, this sort of thing should come up if it's legit who they are and not a complete retcon. It's like "Iceman is suddenly gay, Alan Scott is suddenly gay, etc... despite the fact that in decades upon decades of Third-Person Omniscient Storytelling, we the reader have NEVER seen even a HINT of this before, and now suddenly it's a Big huge part of who they are." Hard to really buy into.

Exactly. Fictional characters don't have full lives, and only exist as far as they are depicted. What we don't see or hear about doesn't exist. In this case, she was clearly a straight character, and then Campbell took over writing duties, and all of a sudden the character is bisexual, which just so happens to be definitively proven in the issue that comes out during pride month. Everything about Jennika is just one box checking exercise after another, and it's only become more blatent as the comic has gone on. I don't care about Jennika as a character, but it still feels irritating because it's like I'm being forced to care because they keep making her the center of everything.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Never read the comic so eh...

If anything, my feeling right now is why some are giving Cubed's weirder threads attention?

And sdp, dude, I know you enjoy posting weird stuff but...unnecessary much?

[CyberCubed]

I mean there's nothing odd about a thread like this when this event just happened in this months comics. I know some of you don't read the IDW comics so you have no idea this was going on, which is why I posted the thread here in the general section instead of the comic section so more people would see it.

Unless I'm forgetting something random or minor, this is the first "on-screen" lesbian kiss between two TMNT characters. And given Jennika is pushed for obviously being a female Turtle (and the first one since Venus), it tracks a bit higher especially since she'll probably be around the entire rest of the IDW run.

We have a lesbian female mutant Turtle. Let that sink in, I never thought I'd say that sentence.

[Leo656]

I mean, yes, it is typical Cubed pot-stirring, but at the same time... eh, kinda relevant. Valid topic of conversation even if our boy is being his usual disingenuous self.

[frank_one]

Seriously? I'm glad I stopped reading this series years ago.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

No, Jennika was straight for the first 50 issues as a human. She was introduced in issue #51. She had a crush on Casey for most of her run under Tom Waltz, and they dated off-screen but broke up. She also had a boyfriend before that in her backstory when she was a Foot Soldier in her mini-series.

She only suddenly became bisexual/lesbian after she got mutated into a Turtle under Sophie's run. She was written 100% straight as a human, even having her flirt with Casey for a long time before he noticed her.

https://bamsmackpow.com/files/2018/0...85icecream.jpg

She was going after Casey for like 50 issues...when she got mutated and Sophie wrote her as bisexual.

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

In this case, she was clearly a straight character, and then Campbell took over writing duties, and all of a sudden the character is bisexual, which just so happens to be definitively proven in the issue that comes out during pride month.

Bleh. Representation is fine and all, and if she'd been making eyes at other women too, as well as Casey, then whatever, but shoehorning it in like that stinks.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

We have a lesbian female mutant Turtle. Let that sink in, I never thought I'd say that sentence.

BIG. WHOOPTIE. DO.

It's Pride Month. Every corporation and it's uncle is virtue signaling like mad right now. Lesbian characters are not remarkable anymore, haven't been for a long while. It's boring, it's not exciting, and it's attention hungry and tryhard as hell.


You know what would be revolutionary? Not having a female character get shoved into some relationship as part of the default female story line. Single female characters that remain single are a rare species, unlike their male counterparts.

Lesbian characters are dime a dozen. I'll crow when they finally come up with something original.

[Leo656]

It's even more egregious simply because of the sheer abundance of lesbian and bisexual OCs that have popped up during Campbell's run. It's seriously not even a book about the TMNT anymore, it's a fanfic about a bunch of mutant lesbians having an ongoing kissing contest.

"Not that there's anything WRONG with that", but c'mon, the criticism is to be expected. A new writer comes onto a book - ANY book - and overnight things go from there being NO queer characters to suddenly you're tripping over them at every turn... it stands out. Especially when characters who have never shown any hints of it suddenly "come out" with no build-up or backstory. And it implies that the writer cares more about putting their own personal "mark" on things - at any cost - more than engaging the audience or being a good storyteller.

The attempts at "inclusion and diversity" under this specific regime have been clumsy at best and ham-fisted at worst. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do these things, but there's grace and tact and an organic way to handle it. "I'm going to put 80 new OCs in there, they're gonna get the bulk of the attention, and they're ALL gonna be queer" is about as subtle as a brick to the face.

You can have the best of intentions and still do a sh*t job of what you're trying to put across.

[Cryomancer]

OK, doesn't bother me any. Go for it.