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Old 04-28-2015, 01:26 PM   #81
Vicky82
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So when that doesn't happen, can we complain then?

If these writers were as good as people said they were...they would:

*Make Raph gone for a bit, as in more than one episode, and have each turtle reflect on how they miss him...especially Mikey (since the two of them share a lot of close stuff throughout)

*make it so that Mikey is the one who brings Raph back to the light (but they won't do that...it'll be Leo or just some Donnie invention and 'Bop')...either by Raph getting ready to kill/hurt Mikey, but then Mikey says something (or hugs him, to reflect that certain scene at the end of Season 2) which snaps Raph out of it...this way, both Raph AND Mikey (which are my two favorites) are essential.

*afterwards, have Raph (at least for a couple episodes) try his hardest to NOT get mad or angry at anything, only to then realize that part of that Is Needed for the team...you could even have Mikey play the 'big brother' for his big brother...people keep saying that Raph has been helping Leo out this season, why not have Mikey do the same for Raph? once again, it would bring up both Raph & Mikey's characters to better usage, and give both of them at least Some type of Arc or at least something with at least a Tiny bit of depth...

But yeah, that won't happen.
Wow that's funny, this is how I see things, as I think it's Mikey is going help Raph but yeah it depends on the writers.

So yeah complain all you want over focus on Raph but wait till after the season ends.
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Old 04-28-2015, 01:31 PM   #82
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I'm busy watching the gif in your sig, Vicky, and I'm really hoping it's Mikey as well!
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:10 PM   #83
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I do get it, I know he hasn't had a episode focused on him yet in season 3 but if you pay attention, it's going to happen on Sunday and the arc is going to be big and probably going to last till the end of the season.

I guess there will be episodes that he probably won't be in it much but it's to build the storyline up to the final showdown and when Raph turns back to normal it's going to be big deal for the other turtles and they be emotionally happy that he has returned to them.

But i'll guess you'll still be complaining about it after watching Sunday (and proabably the end of the season too) and obviously you will moan about Casey and Mikey hanging out in the Mondo Gecko episode.
I don't know where you get the idea that just because you think Raph was focused on previuosly in shows and movies that he deserves to have much less screen time in this show. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's also bad story telling. I never said I wanted it to be all Raph all the time. I want balance but it pains me to see a character I care about being neglected and treated so poorly in this show. I'm sure you'd feel similar if Mikey was terribly neglected in the show. What I'm trying to say is just because past shows were unbalanced doesn't mean this one has to be. Again, it's unprofessional to favor one over the other. I didn't have a problem per say with Mikey befriending Casey but Casey has always been Raph's best buddy and I just feel that's just another thing they took from him that made him special. It's one thing after another with these writers.I don't expect you to agree with me, hell, you don't even have to like me but hopfully now you get an idea where I come from. Also, when I'm passionate about something, I fight hard for it. I am what I am.


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Raph fans will prob gripe about it no matter wat happens....
Do it right and we won't have to.

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Old 04-28-2015, 02:34 PM   #84
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I always read that either Mikey or Raph were the most popular with the fandom, but what is popular and what is actually being depicted in the toons, movies and comics are totally different thing. Like you said, Mikey was the most focused in the old toon, but Donnie was often the one that saved the day the most. I will admit, I think Raph was the third most focused while Leo would have been the least. The movies, the 1990 movie might have given the biggest arc to Raph, but he was actually knocked out for a good while, and in the end, Leonardo, Splinter and Casey are the ones that dealt the final blows to the Shredder. SOTO, was mostly Donnie with the whole scientist thing, the third was mostly on Mikey, the 2007 I believe was a combination of Raph and Leo (the sequel to it looked like it was going to be Mikey based, but that never saw the light of day) and I seriously don't take anything from the 2014 movie in any consideration. It means nothing to me. And anyways, Raphael still hardly shined in any of these movies, it was still mostly Leonardo taking on the big bads. The 2k3 show was a whole different ballgame. Lots of Leo, then Mikey, Donnie and then Raph. And again, he really never does anything important, he's like a footsoldier to Leo and Donnie most of the time. Shiat, at least Mikey has the Battle Nexus Championship, what does Raph have to his credit? Whooping Karai's ass when Leo accidentally fell on her sword, only then to get picked up by Shredder and have his chord broken?
Yeah, this has always been frustrating for me. Just a simple snippet of him working on a motorbike he found in the junkyard would be enough for me.
First movie= Though Raph had some character focus, I now agree on Leo being more prominent.

Secret of the Ooze: Even though it was Donatello getting the treatment this time, Raph had some focus with interactions with Keno. However, this is overshadowed by the mutagen storyline which puts Donnie's intelligence to use while

Turtles 3: Similar to how you ignore the 2014 movie Warhorse, I do the same with this film. Mikey had the most focus and I wager Leo had a fair share of moments as well.

TMNT: This is debatable because it all depends on how anyone looks at the movie with Leo going into hiding and Raph as the Nightwatcher. Essentially both get good time in the film, but the edge goes to Leo.

2014 movie: Even if the movie is discredited by many (including me), outside April stealing the spotlight, it's very clear Raph had the best chance to shine.

Overall, Raph arguably had two movies where he was a central focus, though he had to share it with two other characters. (Leo and April) Each Turtle did get a chance to shine in a movie, so I won't complain too much there.

1980's cartoon: I did mention Mikey and Donnie being the focus both times in the show respectively. (Mikey for popularity while Donnie for plot) Though Raph might have been popular, it's clear he had some focus from time to time. Examples come from the Mona Lisa story as well as the episode where he believed he was going to die. (Don't remember the names of these episodes)

4Kids: I said it before and I'll say it again, Raph had very little focus and I screwed up when writing my first post on the thread. So I'll say it again: Leo is the focus of this show, whereas Michelangelo has the Battle Nexus as mentioned and Donnie has both Good Genes and Same As It Never Was. He did have meeting Casey first, but that's all I can think besides the aforementioning of the duel.

At this point, debating over the history can go on forever, but there's no question that Raph can be looked at as partially focused on by some, hogging attention by some, or rarely by some. As for me, Raph is a complete mixed bag as he gotten a good chunk of attention in the movies, but suffers in the cartoons. (Again, not a comic reader right now) Although he remains a popular character overall, there are details to the character that can be used to make him better. I'm not expecting something complex, but something new to the table to make Raph unique outside his trademarks.

First movie= Though Raph had some character focus, I now agree on Leo being more prominent.

Secret of the Ooze: Even though it was Donatello getting the treatment this time, Raph had some focus with interactions with Keno. However, this is overshadowed by the mutagen storyline which puts Donnie's intelligence to use while

Turtles 3: Similar to how you ignore the 2014 movie Warhorse, I do the same with this film. Mikey had the most focus and I wager Leo had a fair share of moments as well.

TMNT: This is debatable because it all depends on how anyone looks at the movie with Leo going into hiding and Raph as the Nightwatcher. Essentially both get good time in the film, but the edge goes to Leo.

2014 movie: Even if the movie is discredited by many (including me), outside April stealing the spotlight, it's very clear Raph had the best chance to shine.

Overall, Raph arguably had two movies where he was a central focus, though he had to share it with two other characters. (Leo and April) Each Turtle did get a chance to shine in a movie, so I won't complain too much there.

1980's cartoon: I did mention Mikey and Donnie being the focus both times in the show respectively. (Mikey for popularity while Donnie for plot) Though Raph might have been popular, it's clear he had some focus from time to time. Examples come from the Mona Lisa story as well as the episode where he believed he was going to die. (Don't remember the names of these episodes)

4Kids: I said it before and I'll say it again, Raph had very little focus and I screwed up when writing my first post on the thread. So I'll say it again: Leo is the focus of this show, whereas Michelangelo has the Battle Nexus as mentioned and Donnie has both Good Genes and Same As It Never Was. He did have meeting Casey first, but that's all I can think besides the aforementioning of the duel.

At this point, debating over the history can go on forever, but there's no question that Raph can be looked at as partially focused on by some, hogging attention by some, or rarely by some. As for me, Raph is a complete mixed bag as he gotten a good chunk of attention in the movies, but suffers in the cartoons. (Again, not a comic reader right now) Although he remains a popular character overall, there are details to the character that can be used to make him better. I'm not expecting something complex, but something new to the table to make Raph unique outside his trademarks.

Exactly, the writers can keep the core of Raphael's character with his uncontrolled emotions, but bring out more of a wit and other sides to him like you said.

Anyways, for an actual post: I agree with CyberCubed with the transformation storyline, possibly making it this show's adaptation of the Good Genes arc. Or, they could always go down the route of Raph turning into the Shredder from the Image Comics. Again, so many opportunities with the characters that have potential and in this show, character development isn't fully realized. Hopefully, this mind control story can lead to SOMETHING for Raph in this show with him losing his previously potential storylines and falling into the background.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:38 PM   #85
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You don't know me in the slightest so don't act like you do. I don't know where you get the idea that just because you think Raph was focused on previuosly in shows and movies that he deserves to have much less screen time in this show. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's also bad story telling. I never said I wanted it to be all Raph all the time. I want balance but it pains me to see a character I care about being neglected and treated so poorly in this show. I'm sure you'd feel similar if Mikey was terribly neglected in the show. What I'm trying to say is just because past shows were unbalanced doesn't mean this one has to be. Again, it's unprofessional to favor one over the other. I didn't have a pproblem per say with Mikey befriending Casey but Casey has always been Raph's best buddy and I just feel that's just another thing they took from him that made him special. I don't expect you to agree with me but hopfully now you get an idea where I come from. Also, when I'm passionate about something, I fight hard for it. I am what I am.
I wasn't acting like I know you.

I know you love Raph and feel your frustration but we all knew months ago that there is a Dark Raph story happening and we all feel this is going to be big storyline as it's going to be loosly based on IDW City Fall story.

So you need to be patient, so after Sunday's episode you need to give a few more episodes or even till the final to see how things play out. If this Dark Raph story turns out not to your expectations then complain all you want and I'll be complaining with you.

Raph's my 2nd favourite character and I just love the interactions between him and Mikey, I feel that they are more closer together than Raph and Leo and even Mikey and Donnie and that's why I feel that Mikey will play a big part in getting Raph back to his normal self.

I would feel the same if Mikey was badly treated (I know some people feel he's being treated badly now because of the ADD/ADHD thing) because he didn't have enough episode focus but if I knew he had a big storyline coming up, then I would stay patient and wait till to see what happens.

With the Casey and Mikey hanging out thing. There could be a lot of reason's why they are hanging out, they could be out looking for Raph, Casey could be taking Mikey out because he need cheering up because over losing Raph, also remember that Mondo Gecko toy description from Amazon that Casey and Mikey are fighting Fishface.
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:42 PM   #86
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Guys, please stop fighting. I get why both of you are frustrated, both with Raphael and Michelangelo lacking character focus. If you want to fight about it, do it on your own time and with each other. (Then again, I'm a hypocrite for saying that.)
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:49 PM   #87
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Guys, please stop fighting. I get why both of you are frustrated, both with Raphael and Michelangelo lacking character focus. If you want to fight about it, do it on your own time and with each other. (Then again, I'm a hypocrite for saying that.)
I wasn't arguing, I was just replying to his posts. If you feel it is arguing then I'll stop.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:00 PM   #88
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I wasn't arguing, I was just replying to his posts. If you feel it is arguing then I'll stop.
No, it wasn't arguing that time.

Sure, I can wait to complain if I want after it's over but man, that's going to be so hard.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:15 PM   #89
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I wasn't arguing, I was just replying to his posts. If you feel it is arguing then I'll stop.
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No, it wasn't arguing that time.

Sure, I can wait to complain if I want after it's over but man, that's going to be so hard.
If you two wish to continue debating, you can, it just felt like bickering to me. Then again, my mind reacts way too fast without thinking.

To offer my two cents, I do agree with both of you, both Mikey and Raph are not developed well enough yet. I feel Mikey has an edge though, considering he's gotten a few filler episodes dedicated to him as the star. What makes Michelangelo suffer in my opinion on the show is one minute he has some strong development, but loses later with the writers making him idiotic. Not all the time though because of his interactions with Leatherhead or the episode Mikey Gets Shellacne are really strong examples of him.

As for Raph, most of his chances to shine rather limited, but when they get it right, they really get it right, such as Slash and Destroy. Like I said before in the thread, what he needs is a great enemy besides progressing character. Leo had Karai and now has Shredder, Mikey still has Rahzar, and Donnie has Baxter and Tiger Claw (consider the latter equal to all). Since I assume the Turtles get stronger overtime, it weakens the rivalry with Xever and the feud with Slash ended abruptly. With notable stories that can work in Raph's favor, it won't be difficult executing it, it's the impact of it. By making Xever more threatening as well as giving him a really awesome story (outside the upcoming episode), I think fans might be satisfied.

I say if Mikey were to mature throughout the remainder of the show as well as Raph having more parts added to his character in addition to them having strong story episodes, everyone goes home happy. At the same time, I just want great character development and stories for the brothers in the show at some point.
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Old 04-28-2015, 03:43 PM   #90
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If you two wish to continue debating, you can, it just felt like bickering to me. Then again, my mind reacts way too fast without thinking.

To offer my two cents, I do agree with both of you, both Mikey and Raph are not developed well enough yet. I feel Mikey has an edge though, considering he's gotten a few filler episodes dedicated to him as the star. What makes Michelangelo suffer in my opinion on the show is one minute he has some strong development, but loses later with the writers making him idiotic. Not all the time though because of his interactions with Leatherhead or the episode Mikey Gets Shellacne are really strong examples of him.

As for Raph, most of his chances to shine rather limited, but when they get it right, they really get it right, such as Slash and Destroy. Like I said before in the thread, what he needs is a great enemy besides progressing character. Leo had Karai and now has Shredder, Mikey still has Rahzar, and Donnie has Baxter and Tiger Claw (consider the latter equal to all). Since I assume the Turtles get stronger overtime, it weakens the rivalry with Xever and the feud with Slash ended abruptly. With notable stories that can work in Raph's favor, it won't be difficult executing it, it's the impact of it. By making Xever more threatening as well as giving him a really awesome story (outside the upcoming episode), I think fans might be satisfied.

I say if Mikey were to mature throughout the remainder of the show as well as Raph having more parts added to his character in addition to them having strong story episodes, everyone goes home happy. At the same time, I just want great character development and stories for the brothers in the show at some point.
I agree with you agreeing with us.

I feel the decline of Raph as a character and possibly Mikey as well started in the later part of season 2. I might be wrong but that was when writers changed. In that case, I think it's time for new writers.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:43 PM   #91
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Excuse Sabacooza if I can speak up that would be nice.

Look I can understand your anger at Raph not getting enough focus. But my problem is...Its all you ever talk about. Every post is just going on about Raph's lack of focus and while its not unjustified it is annoying
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Old 04-28-2015, 05:19 PM   #92
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Excuse Sabacooza if I can speak up that would be nice.

Look I can understand your anger at Raph not getting enough focus. But my problem is...Its all you ever talk about. Every post is just going on about Raph's lack of focus and while its not unjustified it is annoying
If you don't like it, you can skip over my comments, champ. Besides, when I talked about anything other than Raph on the forum I was always ignored anyway.

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Old 04-29-2015, 01:09 AM   #93
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Raph should become a solo superhero like Nightwatcher then.
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Old 04-29-2015, 01:13 AM   #94
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Raph should become a solo superhero like Nightwatcher then.
Actually, I prefer him as the Green Defender.

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Old 05-03-2015, 08:12 PM   #95
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I do get it, I know he hasn't had a episode focused on him yet in season 3 but if you pay attention, it's going to happen on Sunday and the arc is going to be big and probably going to last till the end of the season. I think it's Mikey that is going to help Raph but yeah it depends on the writers.

Well...that definitely didn't happen.

The newest episode should've answered the question of this thread. And if people still disagree, then I don't know what else the show needs to do, perhaps kill him off and then never mention him again...

It's already pushed him into the back burner (he's the most useless on the team, he has zero importance to the plot, he doesn't have any stand out action beats even though he's supposed to be the Protector of the group...who has Raph ACTUALLY protected since Season 3 began? Even Mikey had to save his shell in the Punk Frog episode); the show burned out a possible Slash/Raph rivalry; he's barely even a friend to Casey now (it's more Don & Casey...as well as April); him (nor Mike) have any kind of Arcs (while Leo, Don, and even Casey & April do); he has to get his Shell saved All The Time now (including, like I mentioned before, Mikey saving his sorry shell in the Frog episode) and all they've done is either turn him into a Plant (which I guess there are Zero side effects from that happening, and yet Leo can be 'even more angry' at Shredder after what happened to him) or not even having an Entire Episode (let alone more than one) to give a Dark Raph arc a shot (yet again, another blunder and another Potentially Great arc shot down before it even had a chance to begin).

And considering how close him and Mikey can get on occasion (like in the Season 2 finale), it was Another Big Blunder to not give Mikey the chance to bring Raph back.

The shows writers are either incredibly daft, they just don't give a crap, or they're utterly ignorant. You had it right there, writers! Season 2...Mikey hugging Raph to calm down his rage...a Call Back which would have worked Excellently, and you Blew It...

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Old 05-03-2015, 08:20 PM   #96
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Why do some of you sound like you're going through mental trauma? Raphael is being handled fine, the same as he is in every single other incarnation. The 4kids series didn't have many Raph-centric episodes either. In fact I'd arguably say Raph (and to a lesser extent Don) were the two least focused on Turtles in the 4kids series.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:30 PM   #97
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Why do some of you sound like you're going through mental trauma? Raphael is being handled fine, the same as he is in every single other incarnation. The 4kids series didn't have many Raph-centric episodes either. In fact I'd arguably say Raph (and to a lesser extent Don) were the two least focused on Turtles in the 4kids series.
Yeah...because it's impossible to do...I don't know...this thing called "Better", right?

If you think Raph is being handled fine, then more power to you Sir.

I gave plenty of reasons in my previous post to back up my statements. And it's simply true that Leo, Don, April, and Casey are given more to do, more arcs, and more on-going stuff than either Raph or Mikey. That's the truth.

And c'mon Cybercubed, you were having a heart attack at the thought that Bebop wouldn't be black. So drop it.



As for what they could have done with it? Well, you could have:

*Raph getting flashes of his family, some of the good times he's had with them, and trying to fight the mind control...showing Raph some of his inner strength

*Show how much his family really need him/depend on him (what it SHOULD BE is that all four depend on each other...as it is now, the family only depends on Don and Leo...and Casey & April...not really on Mikey & Raph. Although, even Mikey helped stopped the invasion, so Mikey has that). Show what Raph means to each Turtle.

*Show how much Mikey misses Raph, needs to play jokes on/goof off with/have fun with.

*Leo reflecting on Raph helping him out when he was rehabbing his body (the Only thing Raph has gotten to do this season)

*Giving Mikey an actual, serious moment where he helps Raph out of it...making Mikey the True Hero of the Episode.

*Raph hurting one of his brothers, and showing in the next couple of episodes that he feels guilty about it, that he doesn't want to be angry anymore, doing everything in his power to be a 'happy go lucky' guy, and ultimately his family realizing that while it's nice that Raph is doing that, the family still needs Raph to at least have PART of that rage.

You can do LOTS, Cybercubed...only those with Little to No Imagination says that there's 'Nothing' you can do with it.

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Old 05-03-2015, 08:45 PM   #98
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Why do some of you sound like you're going through mental trauma? Raphael is being handled fine, the same as he is in every single other incarnation. The 4kids series didn't have many Raph-centric episodes either. In fact I'd arguably say Raph (and to a lesser extent Don) were the two least focused on Turtles in the 4kids series.
So just because that's how it was handled before, that's the formula they should stick to? That way of thinking is reserved for those that have no imagination.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:17 PM   #99
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Every single big Raph storyline ever has been, "Raphael losing his temper" and there's only so much you can do with that.

Mirage = Raph loses his temper in the solo issue, and then again in RTNY and City at War.

Movies 1 and 2 = Raphael loses his temper and it gets him beaten up or captured by the Foot

4kids episodes = Raph loses his temper in Casey's debut, the one with the kid and the gangsters in Season 1, the one in Season 3 with the blind lady. Oh and that dumb FF episode where he liked wrestling.

Archie = Raph loses his temper and future Raph loses his temper.

IDW = Raph loses his temper


The original cartoon is the only one that did something different with Raph since he was more of a wisecracker and less anger proned.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:59 PM   #100
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Every single big Raph storyline ever has been, "Raphael losing his temper" and there's only so much you can do with that.

Then you don't have much of an Imagination.
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