Remember IDW #100 came out December 2019

[CyberCubed]

That means we really have been sitting through 2 1/2 years of Mutant Town stories.

All 12 months of 2020, all 12 months of 2021, 7 months into 2022 and counting. Granted there was a covid break for a few months in 2020, but it's still the same deal. The comic has literally been spinning its wheels for 2 1/2 years. I had actually forgotten issue 100 came out way back in 2019.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

That means we really have been sitting through 2 1/2 years of Mutant Town stories.

All 12 months of 2020, all 12 months of 2021, 7 months into 2022 and counting. Granted there was a covid break for a few months in 2020, but it's still the same deal. The comic has literally been spinning its wheels for 2 1/2 years. I had actually forgotten issue 100 came out way back in 2019.

Little did we know how disappointed we’d be by the post-#100 TMNT.

Well, can’t say that I was totally surprised.

[mrmaczaps]

Times flies when the woke agenda nothingness spins its fanfic furries porn. Or whatever.

Time to cancel this book already.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Times flies when the woke agenda nothingness spins its fanfic furries porn. Or whatever.

Time to cancel this book already.

Well, at least retool Armageddon Game however much it needs to be the end-all, be-all definitive conclusion.

Then cancel it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Well, at least retool Armageddon Game however much it needs to be the end-all, be-all definitive conclusion.

Then cancel it.

As I stated before it's the writer that needs to be changed not the issue number or continuity. If fact if it's rebooted it would have Campbell at the ground floor instead of jumping in. The Daredevil comic that was just relaunched had the same creative team and when a fellow customer asked the store clerk how it was, it's the same as the last volume because it is the same creative team. If Tom is too busy and maybe burnt out look for other creators. That is the best solution for everyone. No offense against Campbell but I feel that Campbell is best suited as a filler artist. There is nothing wrong with that. Spinning wheels as a writer is not working.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

If Tom is too busy and maybe burnt out look for other creators. That is the best solution for everyone. No offense against Campbell but I feel that Campbell is best suited as a filler artist. There is nothing wrong with that. Spinni g wheels as a writer is not working.

They picked Campbell because she wasn’t a straight white male like Waltz and had the right kind of politics. Talent had nothing to do with it. There are millions of creators out there with great potential and could’ve made IDW TMNT even better than it was under Waltz, but they get turned away because they have the wrong skin color, politics, and/or sexual orientation.

Before the release of #100, I actually asked Campbell on a different website not to make TMNT political; I even begged her not to do it. Guess what her response was? “Don’t you know who I am? [insert evil emoji] When people ask me not to do something I do it anyway”. Later someone who read our conversation messaged me and said, “We are in BIG trouble”. And unfortunately he was right.

[TigerClaw]

I think Sophie Campbell's writing on the comic has been fine, I been enjoying it since I started reading from 100 and so on.

I can tell by many of the comments, that people seemed to be threaten that people who aren't straight or white aren't the majority in the comics, and all they do is complain when a character doesn't fit a certain criteria, So when ever we are introduce to a new character that's LGBT, They cry fowl.

As someone who is white and straight, I don't have any issues with what's going on in the comics, Because its not a big deal for me, Regardless if a character is gay or straight, I enjoy reading it, I been enjoying the whole thing between Jennika and Sheena.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I can tell by many of the comments, that people seemed to be threaten that people who aren't straight or white aren't the majority in the comics, and all they do is complain when a character doesn't fit a certain criteria, So when ever we are introduce to a new character that's LGBT, They cry fowl.

Oh jeez, this song and dance again. My dislike of Cambell's writing has nothing to with the fact that Campbell isn't straight or white or whatever. I dislike Campbell's writing because Campbell's writing sucks. You know who another comic writer who I generally dislike? Rob Leifeld. He is both straight and white. And his art and writing sucks.

It has never once had anything to do with the person themselves. Frankly, I never really care about who the person is, just as long as the art they put out is good. And Cambell's writing isn't.

Furthermore, we don't complain about the characters beacuse they're gay. We complain because they're uninteresting pieces of cardboard that offer nothing of substance to care about. Gay characters has never been the problem. It's that being gay is all that many of these new characters have. An uninteresting, underdeveloped straight character has the same problem.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I can tell by many of the comments, that people seemed to be threaten that people who aren't straight or white aren't the majority in the comics, and all they do is complain when a character doesn't fit a certain criteria, So when ever we are introduce to a new character that's LGBT, They cry fowl.

As someone who is white and straight, I don't have any issues with what's going on in the comics, Because its not a big deal for me, Regardless if a character is gay or straight, I enjoy reading it, I been enjoying the whole thing between Jennika and Sheena.

If that were the case, I would’ve stopped reading the series after Lindsey revealed that she had a girlfriend or after Rocket Raccoon called Perry The Platypus his “boyfriend”.

The problem with Jennika X Sheena? It’s forced and clearly Campbell’s own way of sticking it to the straight white male. How could I be so certain? Jenny’s previous two boyfriends were straight white males and they both broke her heart. And why does Jenny even like Sheena? Because she’s a good singer and has a bubbly personality? So what?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I think Sophie Campbell's writing on the comic has been fine, I been enjoying it since I started reading from 100 and so on.

I can tell by many of the comments, that people seemed to be threaten that people who aren't straight or white aren't the majority in the comics, and all they do is complain when a character doesn't fit a certain criteria, So when ever we are introduce to a new character that's LGBT, They cry fowl.

As someone who is white and straight, I don't have any issues with what's going on in the comics, Because its not a big deal for me, Regardless if a character is gay or straight, I enjoy reading it, I been enjoying the whole thing between Jennika and Sheena.

You don't have a problem with the comic because you're focused on superficial elements, plain don't understand the structural problems and mentally inject things that just aren't there so it can seem better than it is. Whenever people call you out on basically reading whatever you want into it, you dismiss the criticism with almost no real thought or argument to back up your opinion. You are essentially the poster boy for the "turn off your brain" mindset, except in a really weird subversion of it in which you don't just absorb what's on the page and instead treat it like... Well I can't say a blank canvas, more like one of those "connect the dots" pages in a children's activity book, it's the most bizarre approach I've ever seen anyone take to storytelling.

I know that sucks that there are people who direct the criticism towards this kind of aspect rather than the structural problems and the overall forced nature of it all, but please don't turn it into another one of your go to lazy dismissals of criticism. You are already turning the concepts of discussion, analysis, review and storytelling into a bad farce, so please don't make any worse than you already are.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You don't have a problem with the comic because you're focused on superficial elements, plain don't understand the structural problems and mentally inject things that just aren't there so it can seem better than it is. Whenever people call you out on basically reading whatever you want into it, you dismiss the criticism with almost no real thought or argument to back up your opinion. You are essentially the poster boy for the "turn off your brain" mindset, except in a really weird subversion of it in which you don't just absorb what's on the page and instead treat it like... Well I can't say a blank canvas, more like one of those "connect the dots" pages in a children's activity book, it's the most bizarre approach I've ever seen anyone take to storytelling.

I know that sucks that there are people who direct the criticism towards this kind of aspect rather than the structural problems and the overall forced nature of it all, but please don't turn it into another one of your go to lazy dismissals of criticism. You are already turning the concepts of discussion, analysis, review and storytelling into a bad farce, so please don't make any worse than you already are.

Whatever, As far as my concern, Issues 100 and so on have been great for me, Whatever issues you have with the writing, Its mostly just your own opinion of it, But my opinion is that the comics have been a really good read, Maybe its not up to whatever standards you have.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Whatever, As far as my concern, Issues 100 and so on have been great for me, Whatever issues you have with the writing, Its mostly just your own opinion of it, But my opinion is that the comics have been a really good read, Maybe its not up to whatever standards you have.

I took my bachelor's degree with minors in creative writing and journalism, with the major in media technology partially touching on writing and story structure. I have also taken courses in Greek drama and Roman poetry. While the master's I am studying for now (design of interactive media) isn't necessarily tied to storytelling or writing, it can be applied to those fields and often is.

I don't want to present myself as an expert on the subject or flaunt my academic merit but I want to assure you, I know what I'm talking about when I say there is such a thing as objectively bad writing and it doesn't simply just come down to opinion. While enjoyment of the writing may be subjective, the quality of the writing itself is not, if it was then there would be no such thing as a failing grade in these courses.

I can go into detail if you'd like but for now, I would simply like to point out that if you need to insert ideas into the story that are never presented in the story in order make sense of it and get character development, be it through your own imagination or someone else's external word, then it isn't really a good story. If that was the criteria for good stories, then I could take worst novel ever written, write an appendix to fill out all the plotholes and thin characters in it which would somehow make it good, even though the core text would still have all the same problems since I never altered it. I could potentially take the core plot and characters of the worst novel ever and use that as a basis for a new decent book, but at point I would be the author and the original would be as bad as ever.

Saying that it comes down to opinion is effectively the same thing as saying the crude crayon artwork you made when you were five and got thrown in the trash without a second's thought, really has the same value as anything on display at the Louvre. What's the point of even having concepts like good or bad if that is the case? Why even bother putting effort into your craft?

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I took my bachelor's degree with minors in creative writing and journalism, with the major in media technology partially touching on writing and story structure. I have also taken courses in Greek drama and Roman poetry. While the master's I am studying for now (design of interactive media) isn't necessarily tied to storytelling or writing, it can be applied to those fields and often is.

I don't want to present myself as an expert on the subject or flaunt my academic merit but I want to assure you, I know what I'm talking about when I say there is such a thing as objectively bad writing and it doesn't simply just come down to opinion. While enjoyment of the writing may be subjective, the quality of the writing itself is not, if it was then there would be no such thing as a failing grade in these courses.

I can go into detail if you'd like but for now, I would simply like to point out that if you need to insert ideas into the story that are never presented in the story in order make sense of it and get character development, be it through your own imagination or someone else's external word, then it isn't really a good story. If that was the criteria for good stories, then I could take worst novel ever written, write an appendix to fill out all the plotholes and thin characters in it which would somehow make it good, even though the core text would still have all the same problems since I never altered it. I could potentially take the core plot and characters of the worst novel ever and use that as a basis for a new decent book, but at point I would be the author and the original would be as bad as ever.

Saying that it comes down to opinion is effectively the same thing as saying the crude crayon artwork you made when you were five and got thrown in the trash without a second's thought, really has the same value as anything on display at the Louvre. What's the point of even having concepts like good or bad if that is the case? Why even bother putting effort into your craft?

This is a comic book however, Not a novel, It doesn't need to be overly complex, It doesn't have to spend several pages to explain a thing or too.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

This is a comic book however, Not a novel, It doesn't need to be overly complex, It doesn't have to spend several pages to explain a thing or too.

This is perhaps one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. Comic books are literature. More broadly, comics are just another storytelling medium. Animation, film, books, comics, poetry, theatre, video games, etc... They are all equally valid and worthy of analysis as any other. All are capable of great storytelling, and people dismissing comics because they're not "real" books has been and still is one of the stupidest critiques offered up to the world. I agree with neatoman; There are objective standards of good and bad, and they can exist in any medium, including comics. You want to tell me comics aren't complex? That they're not a novel? That they don't need serious analysis? Go read The Sandman. Go read Watchmen. Go read The Sculptor, or Bone, or The Walking Dead, or Cerebus the Aardvark, or any number of other great works in the medium. You'd fit right in with the people who don't think people should bother to make quality animated series because they're "just for kids."

[Leo656]

Remember, gentlemen, that you're "debating" with a 40-something person who speaks and apparently thinks at about middle-school level. Look at how they rebut actual talking points. "Whatever." You know who does that? Children.

So by all means, have the debate; just remember before you spend too many words on it, that the person "listening" to your points has been photographed in public as an adult wearing TMNT sweatpants. And they see such a thing as a point of Pride rather than Shame.

Just... keep that in mind before you write a thesis trying to "educate" them. You're basically arguing with a child. It's your quarter and everything. I'm Just Sayin'.
------------

The thing is, though, it's very convenient to just whittle down all "hate" and criticism to "You're just a bigot!" Because then nobody ever has to listen to you and the opposing person automatically wins. You can (and many have) write a book's worth of Actual Criticism of any comic, or book, or movie, and you can spell it out clearly in plain English, but once the opposing side says "Whatever, you're just a bigot!" you have now lost all credibility from which to speak your points. "Well, that person's a homophobic racist, we can't take THEM seriously!" Not even if they actually do know what they're talking about. Who's gonna take sides with "Hitler"?

That was the "smartest" tactic that Leftists ever figured out, insofar as deflecting and shutting down all conversation and debate. "Whatever, Nazi." Automatic Victory without actually having to defend your opinion or Be Right. It's ridiculous, but it's proven effective. Which is why they do it so much.
-----------

There's only so many times people can explain, "It's not the politics, it's the execution", and in turn so many times others can rebut "Nah, you're just a bigot" before this entire conversation becomes EXTREMELY tiresome.

"Here's what you REALLY think!" is arrogant. "You SAY it's because the plot goes nowhere and the Turtles are background characters in their own book while a bunch of OCs talk about brunch and make kissy-face... but what you're REALLY saying, is you hate anyone who isn't straight." Uh, no, people already SAID what they meant the first time. And again and again and again, with no deviation. How anyone gets "I hate gay/trans people and anyone non-white" from statements like "This plot has been spinning its wheels for two years" and "I wanna read about the Turtles but they're barely in the book anymore" is beyond me. Other than, they already decided that anyone who hates the book for ANY reason is "Hitler", and they won't let anything sway them.

I mean, I've been called "a bigot" multiple times on this same topic, both here and on Campbell's f*cking Twitter page.

This, in spite of the fact that the few people who've ever read my writing know that my primary main OC is queer, and that her "journey" through all of that is a major recurring subplot. I've also written stories that were 100% "slice-of-life" that go on forever with characters just sitting around talking to each other, with very little "action" taking place.

Yet I have been told by MANY people here, that I hate queer characters and slice-of-life fiction, and that's why I hate the current state of this book. This is news to me; why would I spend way too much time writing about something myself, if I "hate" it?

What I "hate", is when such topics are very poorly addressed. And also, when it's in a commercial medium where people are "forced" to pay $4 an issue and read a story they don't want to read anymore, just to "support their favorite characters" (who are barely even in the book anymore anyway). The stuff I write to amuse myself for free, is NOT what I would write if my job was to entertain the masses. Especially if I was told over and over again by the people reading that I was missing the mark. You shouldn't hold your audience hostage and tell them to like it or lump it; they're the reason you even have a job.
----------

Full disclosure, though: I'm kinda with Cipher in that I never thought IDW TMNT was any good anyways. I just think it's "more bad" now from a different direction. I never saw what the fuss was about from Issue #1 and I've only ever dipped in and out. The last two years, though? Works better than Ambien, that I can say wholeheartedly.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I think Sophie Campbell's writing on the comic has been fine, I been enjoying it since I started reading from 100 and so on.

This will never not be funny.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

This is a comic book however, Not a novel, It doesn't need to be overly complex, It doesn't have to spend several pages to explain a thing or too.

JFC...

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

They picked Campbell because she wasn’t a straight white male like Waltz and had the right kind of politics. Talent had nothing to do with it. There are millions of creators out there with great potential and could’ve made IDW TMNT even better than it was under Waltz, but they get turned away because they have the wrong skin color, politics, and/or sexual orientation.

Before the release of #100, I actually asked Campbell on a different website not to make TMNT political; I even begged her not to do it. Guess what her response was? “Don’t you know who I am? [insert evil emoji] When people ask me not to do something I do it anyway”. Later someone who read our conversation messaged me and said, “We are in BIG trouble”. And unfortunately he was right.

Campbell filled a quota, much like the characters introduced under Campbell's terrible storyline lacking a decent narrative besides "WE'RE GAAAAY"...

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Oh jeez, this song and dance again. My dislike of Cambell's writing has nothing to with the fact that Campbell isn't straight or white or whatever. I dislike Campbell's writing because Campbell's writing sucks. You know who another comic writer who I generally dislike? Rob Leifeld. He is both straight and white. And his art and writing sucks.

It has never once had anything to do with the person themselves. Frankly, I never really care about who the person is, just as long as the art they put out is good. And Cambell's writing isn't.

Furthermore, we don't complain about the characters beacuse they're gay. We complain because they're uninteresting pieces of cardboard that offer nothing of substance to care about. Gay characters has never been the problem. It's that being gay is all that many of these new characters have. An uninteresting, underdeveloped straight character has the same problem.

^^^Fvcking this^^

Originally Posted by neatoman

You don't have a problem with the comic because you're focused on superficial elements, plain don't understand the structural problems and mentally inject things that just aren't there so it can seem better than it is. Whenever people call you out on basically reading whatever you want into it, you dismiss the criticism with almost no real thought or argument to back up your opinion. You are essentially the poster boy for the "turn off your brain" mindset, except in a really weird subversion of it in which you don't just absorb what's on the page and instead treat it like... Well I can't say a blank canvas, more like one of those "connect the dots" pages in a children's activity book, it's the most bizarre approach I've ever seen anyone take to storytelling.

I know that sucks that there are people who direct the criticism towards this kind of aspect rather than the structural problems and the overall forced nature of it all, but please don't turn it into another one of your go to lazy dismissals of criticism. You are already turning the concepts of discussion, analysis, review and storytelling into a bad farce, so please don't make any worse than you already are.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by neatoman

I took my bachelor's degree with minors in creative writing and journalism, with the major in media technology partially touching on writing and story structure. I have also taken courses in Greek drama and Roman poetry. While the master's I am studying for now (design of interactive media) isn't necessarily tied to storytelling or writing, it can be applied to those fields and often is.

I don't want to present myself as an expert on the subject or flaunt my academic merit but I want to assure you, I know what I'm talking about when I say there is such a thing as objectively bad writing and it doesn't simply just come down to opinion. While enjoyment of the writing may be subjective, the quality of the writing itself is not, if it was then there would be no such thing as a failing grade in these courses.

I can go into detail if you'd like but for now, I would simply like to point out that if you need to insert ideas into the story that are never presented in the story in order make sense of it and get character development, be it through your own imagination or someone else's external word, then it isn't really a good story. If that was the criteria for good stories, then I could take worst novel ever written, write an appendix to fill out all the plotholes and thin characters in it which would somehow make it good, even though the core text would still have all the same problems since I never altered it. I could potentially take the core plot and characters of the worst novel ever and use that as a basis for a new decent book, but at point I would be the author and the original would be as bad as ever.

Saying that it comes down to opinion is effectively the same thing as saying the crude crayon artwork you made when you were five and got thrown in the trash without a second's thought, really has the same value as anything on display at the Louvre. What's the point of even having concepts like good or bad if that is the case? Why even bother putting effort into your craft?

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

This will never not be funny.



JFC...

Yep. I have no problem with gay characters. Just stop making existing great characters 2 dimensional & gay or suddenly a POC instead of the straight, White male they were created as & have ALWAYS been portrayed.

Armageddon Game should be a great send off for the universe. Either way for me.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Armageddon Game should be a great send off for the universe. Either way for me.

I might be checking out after AG, sad though I am that I'll never get to see IDW Chien Khan. Don't trust Campbell to handle the character (or any character, for that matter) properly even if she does bring him in later.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I might be checking out after AG, sad though I am that I'll never get to see IDW Chien Khan. Don't trust Campbell to handle the character (or any character, for that matter) properly even if she does bring him in later.

Campbell brought in how many new characters? Old characters? And how many showed up & then died or got sent away? Whats the point? IDW got to make "first appearances of..." and make a few extra sales for the spec folks... and still the story sucks.

If they really wanted to, they could just do a solo Campbell's Furry's World book and then retcon he ongoing back to 100s ending, its AG in and then keep going... with better stories. Only problem there is CFW would tank & Campy'd be sad some more.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

I might be checking out after AG, sad though I am that I'll never get to see IDW Chien Khan. Don't trust Campbell to handle the character (or any character, for that matter) properly even if she does bring him in later.

I wanted Razhar,Tokka,Groundchuck, Dirtbag, and The Punk Frogs. However, the first arc showed me that if they were to find a purpose to appear it is best not under Campbell's pen. What happened? All of them appeared and Razhar and Tokka were a maguffin in a plot involving peace with Karai that was already resolved in #100. They end up in a Deviantart pocket dimension. Groundchuck and Dirtbag are fodder for gay cardboard to murder without being questioned or hold any consequences let alone learn any backstory to add to them. Then the Punk Frogs who had appeared in an alternate reality then were alluded to as a group within the quarantined zone to somehow add Venus to their ranks to be a trans allegory? I would rather these preexisting characters just not appear at all! Other than checking a box of characters that have not appeared use what is already there and follow storyarcs that make sense for those characters. Character development and characterization of established characters is Campbell's biggest weakness.

I look forward to The Armageddon Game and returning to the fold in the mini-series and one-shots since letting go after #117. After that like many let it go for good. It is not a reboot that the comic needs, but a new creative team.I understand that The Armageddon Game should be finale esque, but it is more important to get a different team to rejuvenate the comic be it a new number one or issue one hundred plus.