"THE SHREDDER" graphic novel

[Leo656]

I don't wanna speak for Andrew, but I think the gimmick is that he tries to make his works be more than just mere fan-works, and strives to make them as "authentic" and "official" to the Mirage canon and aesthetic as possible, and that the visuals play a big part of that.

If "just anyone" draws it, then it's "just fanfiction with a higher budget". BUT, if the official Mirage team draws it, you can totally pretend that it's "official" Mirage product without squinting too hard. It helps the entire immersion aspect of "This is actual Mirage." I mean "Officially" officially, it's not, but 7/10s is still pretty good, and perhaps that's another way Andrew feels justified in charging money for these projects and going to all the trouble of printing them and selling them.

I mean "everybody" writes TMNT fanfics and draws fan art and some of them even do their own comics, too. And most of it just goes on the internet for free because "who wants to pay for someone's fanfic scribbles?" In the case of these projects, you're supposed to pretend that they're like "lost works" from the official Mirage canon. To accomplish that sort of magic trick, you need the actual Mirage crew on board or else it's "just" someone's fanfic scribbles and why should anyone be charged money for that, objectively?

I mean, like I said, I can't speak for Andrew but I *think* and assume that's why it's important to get these specific people on board. I mean I could write and hire some random person to draw for a really good TMNT comic book, too, hypothetically; but would I spend money and printing it and then charge people for it? I'unno, that'd feel weird, because who the f*ck am I? Just some guy who made some stuff up. It could theoretically be the best TMNT fanfic anyone had ever seen, but what ultimately separates that from anyone else's, really? But if I managed to get one of "real guys" to work on it... well, now I have a product worth selling.

I absolutely loathe Jim Lawson's artwork and this Farley guy sounds like a total flake and a hypocrite. BUT. For the sake of the "integrity" of these projects, I think I understand why getting them involved is so important. It's almost like without them there's very little point to it.

By all accounts, Andrew spins a good yarn. But I think that's only half the point, and if some rando draws it, it loses a lot of the reason to even proceed with it.

If I'm looking at this wrong, Andrew, by all means correct me.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Eh, Farley seems like a hot rod of contradictions anyway. I'm not saying he's not a good person, but that action in itself doesn't surprise me. I used to follow him when I had Facebook, and I'll never forget his rants about people needing to buck-up and do their jobs, while he was sitting on years worth of commission money and posting on FB hourly instead of getting those back to the folks who paid for them. He's gonna sit on Facebook everyday and lecture people about responsibility when he accepted money for commissions from hardcore fans and waited years and years to fulfill them? Hypocritical.

Sorry though, that sucks.

Bingo. Guy's a real piece of work. Bullies anyone who doesn't share his views, rips people off hardcore, phones it in when he does actually draw, he fell hook line & sinker for all the cultural divide stuff & became a hate machine toward his own friends & fans, gross. After seeing his conduct on Facebook, I flipped the commission he did for me for a pretty penny. Still love his art & TMNT footprint, but that's it.

As for this, sucks to hear your long-time collaborator, Jim Lawson, is out. I can't say I'm terribly surprised, though. That being said, there are plenty of other former Mirage talents you could pitch to, from Vol. 1 to Tales Vol. 2, I'd love to see it carry on under their pen tips. Depending on how the story was formatted you could even do it in segments, with different talents depicting different periods of the character's life. I hope you'll still do these books, whatever form they take, as I've enjoyed being both a reader & contributor.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't wanna speak for Andrew, but I think the gimmick is that he tries to make his works be more than just mere fan-works, and strives to make them as "authentic" and "official" to the Mirage canon and aesthetic as possible, and that the visuals play a big part of that.

If "just anyone" draws it, then it's "just fanfiction with a higher budget". BUT, if the official Mirage team draws it, you can totally pretend that it's "official" Mirage product without squinting too hard. It helps the entire immersion aspect of "This is actual Mirage." I mean "Officially" officially, it's not, but 7/10s is still pretty good, and perhaps that's another way Andrew feels justified in charging money for these projects and going to all the trouble of printing them and selling them.

I mean "everybody" writes TMNT fanfics and draws fan art and some of them even do their own comics, too. And most of it just goes on the internet for free because "who wants to pay for someone's fanfic scribbles?" In the case of these projects, you're supposed to pretend that they're like "lost works" from the official Mirage canon. To accomplish that sort of magic trick, you need the actual Mirage crew on board or else it's "just" someone's fanfic scribbles and why should anyone be charged money for that, objectively?

I mean, like I said, I can't speak for Andrew but I *think* and assume that's why it's important to get these specific people on board. I mean I could write and hire some random person to draw for a really good TMNT comic book, too, hypothetically; but would I spend money and printing it and then charge people for it? I'unno, that'd feel weird, because who the f*ck am I? Just some guy who made some stuff up. It could theoretically be the best TMNT fanfic anyone had ever seen, but what ultimately separates that from anyone else's, really? But if I managed to get one of "real guys" to work on it... well, now I have a product worth selling.

I absolutely loathe Jim Lawson's artwork and this Farley guy sounds like a total flake and a hypocrite. BUT. For the sake of the "integrity" of these projects, I think I understand why getting them involved is so important. It's almost like without them there's very little point to it.

By all accounts, Andrew spins a good yarn. But I think that's only half the point, and if some rando draws it, it loses a lot of the reason to even proceed with it.

If I'm looking at this wrong, Andrew, by all means correct me.

You might have something there. I've always figured that the only reason Lawson kept getting commissioned was because he was the guy who drew most of the old Mirage catalogue. Which is somewhat unfortunate, because I think basically all of the other main artists were better. But, like it or not, his art is the signature look of the Mirage comics. However, I would counter in this instance. You're right in that anyone could write a TMNT fan fiction, and that anyone could draw it. But I think that in this instance, the only people who would buy this one are the people on this forum and who have most likely purchased the other two. We all know who Andrew is. Andrew is basically honorary TMNT staff at this point, and his work, in terms of writing quality, is actually better than a lot of the officialy published stuff. So in this case, whether or not it was done by one of the Mirage guys, the only people who would purchase it in the first place know exactly what they're getting and who it came from. I can't speak for others, but I would have purchased it regardless of the "official" artist involvement. Heck, I think I actually would have preferred if it had been drawn by anyone else, because I was never here for the art. I came for a good story. The TMNT works of Andrew and Arseniy and the Se3son webcomic are my only two exceptions to my longstanding "no fanfiction" rule. If he wants to cancel it, it's his prerogative. But personally, I think that the audience it was intended for would appreciate it nonetheless, and it would be a shame to miss out on the great story I'm sure it would end up being.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't wanna speak for Andrew, but I think the gimmick is that he tries to make his works be more than just mere fan-works, and strives to make them as "authentic" and "official" to the Mirage canon and aesthetic as possible, and that the visuals play a big part of that.

If "just anyone" draws it, then it's "just fanfiction with a higher budget". BUT, if the official Mirage team draws it, you can totally pretend that it's "official" Mirage product without squinting too hard. It helps the entire immersion aspect of "This is actual Mirage." I mean "Officially" officially, it's not, but 7/10s is still pretty good, and perhaps that's another way Andrew feels justified in charging money for these projects and going to all the trouble of printing them and selling them.

I mean "everybody" writes TMNT fanfics and draws fan art and some of them even do their own comics, too. And most of it just goes on the internet for free because "who wants to pay for someone's fanfic scribbles?" In the case of these projects, you're supposed to pretend that they're like "lost works" from the official Mirage canon. To accomplish that sort of magic trick, you need the actual Mirage crew on board or else it's "just" someone's fanfic scribbles and why should anyone be charged money for that, objectively?

I mean, like I said, I can't speak for Andrew but I *think* and assume that's why it's important to get these specific people on board. I mean I could write and hire some random person to draw for a really good TMNT comic book, too, hypothetically; but would I spend money and printing it and then charge people for it? I'unno, that'd feel weird, because who the f*ck am I? Just some guy who made some stuff up. It could theoretically be the best TMNT fanfic anyone had ever seen, but what ultimately separates that from anyone else's, really? But if I managed to get one of "real guys" to work on it... well, now I have a product worth selling.

I absolutely loathe Jim Lawson's artwork and this Farley guy sounds like a total flake and a hypocrite. BUT. For the sake of the "integrity" of these projects, I think I understand why getting them involved is so important. It's almost like without them there's very little point to it.

By all accounts, Andrew spins a good yarn. But I think that's only half the point, and if some rando draws it, it loses a lot of the reason to even proceed with it.

If I'm looking at this wrong, Andrew, by all means correct me.

Pretty much spot on. Plus from a crowdfunding standpoint (which I would need to do, as I did with Odyssey and Origin, to cover the cost of paying the artist and printing and distributing the book -- I don't have extra thousands of dollars sitting around, particularly now)... you can't just have "anybody" there, you need a name.

I can't really think of anyone else with feet big enough marquee-wise to fit into Lawson's shoes connected to Mirage TMNT. Not that would probably be willing to, to begin with, or work at the kind of monetary arrangement Lawson and I had. I mean, Berger would undoubtedly be down to step in and do a few pages, but that's about it. McCollum is pretty ill. Talbot is a hard no (I've asked, previously). Veitch would probably do it... if I paid him like $800 a page (as in , completely out of the question). Rick Arthur is a maybe, but I doubt it. Who's really left?

[909 Turtle Fan]

That’s disappointing news.
But to hell with that dude. It’s no one’s damn business who someone else votes for. Freakin pathetic.

I’m somewhat new to politics but in my experience with liberals, it’s really hard to have a calm rational discussion. The ones I’ve encountered are rude and dismissive, quick to be offended, get feelings or emotional, and ignore facts. But then again I’m in CA ????????
I didn’t believe in TDS until I experienced first hand.

It’d be awesome if someone made some fan art with one of the turtles all decked out Trump/MAGA gear and trolled him with it

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I can't really think of anyone else with feet big enough marquee-wise to fit into Lawson's shoes connected to Mirage TMNT. Not that would probably be willing to, to begin with, or work at the kind of monetary arrangement Lawson and I had. I mean, Berger would undoubtedly be down to step in and do a few pages, but that's about it. McCollum is pretty ill. Talbot is a hard no (I've asked, previously). Veitch would probably do it... if I paid him like $800 a page (as in , completely out of the question). Rick Arthur is a maybe, but I doubt it. Who's really left?

Well, my first thought was Berger. Other than those mentioned, I guess there's still Dario Brizuela, Ross May, Frank Fosco, maybe Michael Dooney? He'd probably be my top pick. What's he doing these days? I guess also Chris Allen, though he's more associated with Archie and I'm pretty sure he's tied up with Forever War right now.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, Allan is busy, Fosco is too much money and probably wouldn't do a fan comic, Ross May is a writer, Dooney never even returns emails about covers in the past, Dario is good but maybe "not Mirage enough"?

[Zog The Magnificent]

Ross May only writes? Huh. I though he drew the issues that he wrote. I must have misread the issue credits. It's unfortunate about the others, though I wouldn't count Brizuela out just yet. He was definitely one of the better artists on Tales.

I don't really know who I'm trying to convince. I'd buy it regardless, but I don't really think my thoughts have any impact on the ultimate outcome of this series of events. Ultimately it's your story. If you find some way you want to do it, you will. If you don't you won't. Though considering the usual pattern of Mirage TMNT, maybe by some miracle we'll see this story come out 10 years from now.

[Andrew NDB]

I think I'll actually reach out to a couple of people with new ideas of mine. Let's see what happens. Never hurts to ask.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I don't wanna speak for Andrew, but I think the gimmick is that he tries to make his works be more than just mere fan-works, and strives to make them as "authentic" and "official" to the Mirage canon and aesthetic as possible, and that the visuals play a big part of that.

If "just anyone" draws it, then it's "just fanfiction with a higher budget". BUT, if the official Mirage team draws it, you can totally pretend that it's "official" Mirage product without squinting too hard. It helps the entire immersion aspect of "This is actual Mirage." I mean "Officially" officially, it's not, but 7/10s is still pretty good, and perhaps that's another way Andrew feels justified in charging money for these projects and going to all the trouble of printing them and selling them.

True. With Lawson on board Andrew's stories had been elevated to an almost-official level. It is sad to know that now even an almost-official level won't be possibile anymore. The passing of time is taking his toll, I guess. The passion of us fan must survive though and I really hope Andrew's talent will find a way.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think I'll actually reach out to a couple of people with new ideas of mine. Let's see what happens. Never hurts to ask.

If there needs to be some "authenticity", would you consider reaching out to Archie and/or IDW artists?

[Leo656]

For a Mirage-canon project, though?

I mean, sure, better than nothing, but that strikes me as sort of a "Let's just hire Joss Whedon to finish the Justice League movie" kind of compromise.

I personally wouldn't be against it, just sort of an odd blend. One thing about every TMNT comic book is that they've each had their own distinctive visual style that makes it "unique" to their own label. Like, you can tell Mirage TMNT from Archie TMNT from IDW TMNT, all at a glance. That's kinda cool. But when the styles cross over, it can be very jarring.

I mean, my opinion of Lawson's art is well-known, but remember when he did some stuff for the Archie TMNT book? Wooof. Not only did it look completely out of place for the Archie book, it wasn't even up to his usual "standard" by half. It was incredibly jarring, even as a kid.

Not to say it can't be done or anything. Just saying, it would be kinda weird to see. IDW pencilers on a Mirage-canon comic book project would just feel a little bit strange. Not "bad". Just... strange.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by neatoman

If there needs to be some "authenticity", would you consider reaching out to Archie and/or IDW artists?

IDW, no. Archie, as I mentioned... Allan is busy. And I'd love to work with Mitchroney (though he'd seem inappropriate for something like "The Shredder") but we once talked about me commissioning him for 1 page of Odyssey and he just stopped replying to me when I explained it was a fan publication.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Really disappointed to hear about AC Farley. That's just one more nail in the crazy coffin.

[Leo656]

"The Tolerant Left". So very progressive. "Right Side Of History".

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Really disappointed to hear about AC Farley. That's just one more nail in the crazy coffin.

I was blindsided. Out of nowhere. Like the day before we'd been talking about stuff our daughters were doing (we incidentally both have an "Alanna," it turns out). Suddenly it's, "What do you think about this thing Trump said???" And I didn't respond. For a day or two. But he insisted, and insisted. Finally it's like, OK, I'll tell you what I think even though I know you won't like it. And now I'm the devil. Then he was like, "Well OK, don't worry, I'll do this cover for you but that's IT!" then a day later, "You know what? I can't fathom doing comics with you! We're done! You're so stupid!" and so on.

Originally Posted by Leo656

"The Tolerant Left". So very progressive. "Right Side Of History".

Sadly.

[hypered1]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to be bashing the 'tolerant left' when you're clearly intolerent yourselves when it comes to opinions that differ from your own?

Either way, please stop with the political nonsense - this is neither the time nor place for it.

[Leo656]

Andrew and I both share an intolerance of people who claim to be tolerant, but in fact are not.

I, for one, have NEVER claimed to be a nice guy. I just know bullsh*t when I see it.

As for "time and place"? Andrew's thread, he can say what he likes in it as far as I'm concerned. And if he wants me to sing a different tune he'll absolutely tell me so. We've never had a problem communicating. No "mixed signals" here.

So... nope. Although it was nice of you to say "please".

[Powder]

Originally Posted by hypered1

Either way, please stop with the political nonsense - this is neither the time nor place for it.

It is literally the time & place for it, it's the sole reason the thread was bumped.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by hypered1

Either way, please stop with the political nonsense - this is neither the time nor place for it.

The political nonsense is what led to this thread and the discussion. When creators bring politics into their art, it is the time and place to discuss it.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I was blindsided. Out of nowhere. Like the day before we'd been talking about stuff our daughters were doing (we incidentally both have an "Alanna," it turns out). Suddenly it's, "What do you think about this thing Trump said???" And I didn't respond. For a day or two. But he insisted, and insisted. Finally it's like, OK, I'll tell you what I think even though I know you won't like it. And now I'm the devil. Then he was like, "Well OK, don't worry, I'll do this cover for you but that's IT!" then a day later, "You know what? I can't fathom doing comics with you! We're done! You're so stupid!" and so on.

Discussing Trump is like discussing your sex life. People are gonna end up wishing they hadn't pushed you for details.