TMNT #113 Preview and Discussion

[CyberCubed]

Yeah I don't see the big deal of the throwaway global warming line either. The entire Archie series was about that and the entire future had the Earth flooded underwater. Most TMNT fans are used to that especially for those of us who read the Archie series, so this isn't anything new.

Spoiler:

Besides it's going to happen in real life anyway, not anytime soon of course, but within the next 100 years after most of us are gone.

Hopefully we get to see a lot more of Rahzar/Tokka soon. Anyone else like that Rahzar has gray fur instead of the usual brown/orange color he usually has?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Yeah I don't see the big deal of the throwaway global warming line either. The entire Archie series was about that and the entire future had the Earth flooded underwater. Most TMNT fans are used to that especially for those of us who read the Archie series, so this isn't anything new.

Like I said earlier in this very thread, Archie did it better because it was fun, over the top and not meant to be taken entirely seriously. There was a certain leaning to its message but no fearmongering out of nowhere to take you out of the moment. Not to mention - as you point out below - taking far more than 10 years to come to pass. I know censoring people online has become all the rage lately but surely I, and others who feel similarly, are still entitled to an opinion without need for all this drama? (And I don't mean from you, Cyber.) It literally is no big deal. Which is why it's so out of place.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Spoiler:

Besides it's going to happen in real life anyway, not anytime soon of course, but within the next 100 years after most of us are gone.

So will the Sun's death throes obliterating our planet. Eventually. Should we be worried?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I think it has to do more with this forum in general rather then any criticism. Lately the place has become toxic and it was drawing many off from going to the forum.

This place has been toxic at times through the years, but when in the last year or two has it been? Was it heavy dislike of Rise? I watched one episode and was turned off, never went to the section. This section has had occasional constructive criticisms about the run which I am a part of, but nothing venomous at all.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

This place has been toxic at times through the years, but when in the last year or two has it been? Was it heavy dislike of Rise? I watched one episode and was turned off, never went to the section.

I mean people aren't talking about the Rise cartoon in the comic section obviously.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I mean people aren't talking about the Rise cartoon in the comic section obviously.

I am referring to the forum as a whole.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I am referring to the forum as a whole.

For all its faults, this place beats an echo chamber any day.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Spoiler:

Considering all the praise this comic is getting in this thread I find this tweet Sophie made kinda funny: https://twitter.com/mooncalfe1/statu...24588374523904

I've seen nothing all that critical yet this little tweet has a small gang of people giving Sophie asspats for what has to be...one of the worst story arcs this comic has ever gotten? Thats how I feel at least. Reading this is like watching a small child in floaties trying to swim in a pool. They paddle with all their might but aren't going anywhere.

Is she vilifying this forum for sympathy? Or is there another big TMNT forum out there? Probably not as her defenders make note that the people here are old fossils. I mean they're not wrong on that front. (Also they name this place directly and she responds so...yeah.)

But anyway I had high hopes for this arc but as it goes on my hopes get lower. I wanted a slower arc and boy howdy did I get it. Too much on the slow side unfortunately. The plot ground to a complete halt without much going on to justify it. And now we've got a time travel plot that could have/should have hit off several issues ago but ultimately is going to be pointless as we all know these future predictions won't happen.

I can't be the only one tired of the turtles standing or sitting around talking and doing nothing all the time am I? Why have they suddenly put all their trust in Sally Pride after one ill-fated help group? Why are they relying on the democratic process to stop someone they see as a dictator? The turtles should just go over to Mutanimal HQ and kick his ass. They should have done that a long time ago. If Hob was a dictator, peaceful protest wouldn't do any good.

I like Hob but this has been a big waste of his character. He's been moping throughout most of this, and without really seeing him, he is now almost regretting his actions. But from what I can tell nothing has substantially changed since the start of Mutant Town til now to change his mind. So all this chest thumping about free and fair elections, while already borderline unnecessary in a ninja turtles comic, is already de-fanged and de-clawed before it can even begin because Hobs is already coming off his high and regretting his actions, making all this political postulation a freakin waste of time, paper, and ink. Did you see how he looks? Not like a man ready to meet the challenge of his detractors. He looks 9 seconds away from tucking his tail between his legs and asking the turtles for help.

And oh boy Jennika. I used to really like her. I don't like her as much. I miss the days when she was an emotionally stunted, loyal, yet level headed chunin to Splinter. Now she is almost a totally different person, again for no reason. She was trained in the Foot Clan of all things. Her master killed Shredder. I don't understand why learning about her future self killing Karai is that big of a deal to her. The kiss between her and Sheena comes out of nowhere and feels unwarranted.

Oh I also wanted to like Mona Lisa. I thought she'd be something useful, anything more than a mouth piece. Seems not.

Lita, a character we've only just met is now suddenly super important and in a spectacular move of bad writing via exposition vomit, she destroys any tension or mystery about what the dark future holds for our heroes by spelling it all out. Plus shipping uwu. And don't even get me started on how stupid Leo x Koya is. Plus I thought Koya was in a relationship with Shark-dude.

How did the turtles or any of their allies not notice the giant helicopter crash within the borders of Mutant Town? Have they become that sedentary?

Well said.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Powder

Well said.

Indeed. With Dejablue's post and everything else in mind, I'll say I want to like this arc/run too but then we look at the Jennika mini, where the whole concept of Mutant Town is put to much better use and where Jennika as a character is clearly informed by her past, struggling to deal with it and grow as a person, instead of seeming almost like a whole different character in the ongoing... Yeah, we get it, she was an assassin under Shredder, but Splinter steered her away from that path long ago and made her into something more. Into someone worthy to stand with his sons as a Ninja Turtle. Her mini(s) and many beats that came before show that Jennika is a good character, she just needs better plots to allow her to shine. Wanting revenge on Karai doesn't seem like her anymore.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Indeed. With Dejablue's post and everything else in mind, I'll say I want to like this arc/run too but then we look at the Jennika mini, where the whole concept of Mutant Town is put to much better use and where Jennika as a character is clearly informed by her past, struggling to deal with it and grow as a person, instead of seeming almost like a whole different character in the ongoing... Yeah, we get it, she was an assassin under Shredder, but Splinter steered her away from that path long ago and made her into something more. Into someone worthy to stand with his sons as a Ninja Turtle. Her mini(s) and many beats that came before show that Jennika is a good character, she just needs better plots to allow her to shine. Wanting revenge on Karai doesn't seem like her anymore.

The details about the future are very vague. Future Lita says she killed Karai. But we don't know the reason why. It could be anything. Perhaps Karai did something that made Jennika upset enough to kill her in that future. It could have been a tragic event like Karai killed somebody she loved or something to that effect.

I think in another issue or two more details about what future Jennika did will be unveiled. All we know is she quit a band and end up killing Karai in the future. So there's more to it then just quitting the band. There has to be a reason.

Here's a theory. Karai killed Sheena in the future. She was somebody that Jennika loved. So she gets revenge on Karai for killing her in the future.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

The details about the future are very vague. Future Lita says she killed Karai. But we don't know the reason why. It could be anything. Perhaps Karai did something that made Jennika upset enough to kill her in that future. It could have been a tragic event like Karai killed somebody she loved or something to that effect.

I think in another issue or two more details about what future Jennika did will be unveiled. All we know is she quit a band and end up killing Karai in the future. So there's more to then just quitting the band. There has to be a reason.

Here's a theater. Karai killed Sheena in the future. It was somebody that Jennika for. So she gets revenge on Karai for killing her in the future.

That could be the case too. I'm just going off the information we have available at the moment and taking things at face value, but I'll say - and I'm not the only one to say it - that something feels off about Lita's story. Maybe she doesn't have the full picture or maybe doesn't want to share the full picture. Not that she seemed particularly adept as suppressing slips of the tongue... We'll have to wait and see. I'll happily retract some of my comments if that happens.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

That could be the case too. I'm just going off the information we have available at the moment and taking things at face value, but I'll say - and I'm not the only one to say it - that something feels off about Lita's story. Maybe she doesn't have the full picture or maybe doesn't want to share the full picture. Not that she seemed particularly adept as suppressing slips of the tongue... We'll have to wait and see. I'll happily retract some of my comments if that happens.

She just tells Jennika that she killed Karai. But didn't give the reason why. I think she will reveal more details in the later issues. Jennika was just given this information for the first time and having a difficult time processing everything that's going on. This is the first time she heard about time travel even though the Turtles are unfazed by it. She is new to the group and she has never encountered anything like this before in her life. She's in disbelieve and has trouble with accepting that this is happening.

[Dejablue]

Well currently Karai is still the enemy of the turtles and Jennika still has a lot of bitterness about her current physical state, saying Karai basically murdered her. That alone is motivation for Jennika to try and kill Karai.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Considering all the praise this comic is getting in this thread I find this tweet Sophie made kinda funny: https://twitter.com/mooncalfe1/statu...24588374523904

Is she vilifying this forum for sympathy? Or is there another big TMNT forum out there? Probably not as her defenders make note that the people here are old fossils. I mean they're not wrong on that front. (Also they name this place directly and she responds so...yeah.)

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I wonder what she read here that was so terrible? The criticisms I'm seeing about the book seem fairly even and level-headed.

Let me see if I have this right, though. They recently added a 6th Turtle now, and are also doing stuff about fair elections and climate change?

Originally Posted by Powder

Well said.

Huh. Wasn't aware this had blown up.

As someone who has been very, VERY vocal about his distaste for the direction of the comic under Sophie Campbell, specifically plot, characters, and ignoring main aspects of IDW's run outside Mutant Town... I have been enjoying this current arc a lot more. It's still very much Sophie TMNT, but things seem to be happening again. And I'm finding enough content in the issues to bring me back in and tide me over until (hopefully) TMNT returns a bit more to a traditional direction of conflict, stakes, and scope.

I see all the political parallels to our current day what with elections, and I was very much not surprised to find out that Sheena is a lesbian , and of course Jennika gets the majority of focus again. But I don't begrudge the artist/author putting their politics and beliefs and priorities into a story, whether or not I agree.

What I do take issue with is belittling the 'Drome Forums in favor of Twitter echo chambers. For every "omigahd Jennika is a gurl" comment, I've seen two or three comments criticizing story and character content in a way unrelated to the commentor's political leanings.

Whether or not the TMNT fandom is full of redhat retards or tree-hugging morons, the fandom is your paying customer. Avoid the political threads, ignore the people you don't like, but our criticisms (or praises) regarding Sophie Campbell's TMNT writing is valid.

Even... sigh. Even TigerClaw's, even though the dude would be ecstatic with just a pet rock named Ninja Turtle and painted green.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Well currently Karai is still the enemy of the turtles and Jennika still has a lot of bitterness about her current physical state, saying Karai basically murdered her. That alone is motivation for Jennika to try and kill Karai.

In the back of my mind, I have Donnie's enmity to Bebop and Rocksteady as a parallel to this situation. He didn't go after them specifically after getting it out of his system with a little overkill violence back in #50. But then again... He got better, Jennika didn't (by her standards). I expect her coming around to fully accepting her mutation will be a big moment for her.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

For all its faults, this place beats an echo chamber any day.

You are correct.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Even... sigh. Even TigerClaw's, even though the dude would be ecstatic with just a pet rock named Ninja Turtle and painted green.

You remain my favorite.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I see all the political parallels to our current day what with elections, and I was very much not surprised to find out that Sheena is a lesbian , and of course Jennika gets the majority of focus again. But I don't begrudge the artist/author putting their politics and beliefs and priorities into a story, whether or not I agree.

The biggest (and truthfully only real) "problem" with it comes from an entirely pragmatic point of view. Regardless of how anyone does or doesn't feel about the content, that content has cost them a huge chunk of readers (going SOLELY by sales numbers and nothing else), which in turn costs IDW money and in a roundabout way hurts the brand.

People absolutely can write whatever they want to. BUT. Comics are still a commercial medium and in this case "putting their politics and beliefs and priorities into a story" is costing the company a lot of money. The Why's and Wherefore's are open to debate and discussion; the fact that sales dropped like a rock since the latest arc began is not open for debate, it's a fact.

Which means that not only is it fair for people to discuss what they might not like about the current direction, it's also correct to have those conversations.
---------------

To use one of my "endearing" wrestling analogies; every Internet Fan wants to see Daniel Bryan as the WWE's "Top Guy" and be World Champion, because he looks like One Of Them - undersized, kinda scrawny, pasty, bushy unkempt beard, etc. And to be fair, he wrestles very well. But he doesn't "look like a wrestler" at all (which in turn is WHY some fans love him so much). He reflects the Internet Wrestling Fan's values in every way.

BUT. Does Daniel Bryan draw any f*cking MONEY for the company? Ultimately, no, he never did after multiple runs with the Championship. He's "popular" but he never really moved the needle the way a "Top Guy" needs to if they want to stay in that spot. It doesn't matter what he "represents" or how much the fans "see themselves in him"; he doesn't get to be and STAY a "Top Guy" because wrestling fans DON'T pay money to watch guys who look like they could be pumping gas for a living. One of those "You can be a Nice Guy and good at your job, but Life Isn't Fair" kinda things. You have to draw money, not merely applause.

And at the end of the day, Business Is Business. What the "smart marks" like in a wrestler or a TV show or a comic book is only PART of the story.

Artistically? Any writer can write any story they want to and I'll defend their ultimate right to do so. But we've seen in MANY mediums in recent years, from film to TV and even comic books, if it doesn't sell then it's Bad For Business. Thus, it's a fair topic to discuss and debate. Which is why it's fair game to question ANY writer for "putting personal politics and beliefs into their stories"... especially if it's not raking in money hand over fist.

It's not a personal thing. It's entirely a Net Gain vs. Net Loss thing. And obviously it's going to become a topic of conversation because I do believe most people who profess to be TMNT fans both 1. Want the brand to stick around a while, and 2. Hope to still be paying attention to it for a long time. Anything that threatens to interfere with that is going to be dissected. It's only natural. And, of course, some people have a more pragmatic view of these things than others.

[TigerClaw]

There are fans who are loving what's happening in the comics right now. Its a nice change of pace and I'm loving every minute of it. It seems some of you would rather all these characters be one dimensional and do what they always used to do. But the reality is they are free to do whatever they want now that Mutant Town has become the thing.. And if its trying to be more human. Then they should should be able to blend in and do what they always wanted to do. And that's be part of a community even though most of the mutants used to be human.

As for the political stuff. I think that's being blown way out of proportion. Mutant Town needs a functioning government otherwise Old Hobs would become its dictator. So the idea of them starting an election for Mayor would help stabilize that area. Mayor Pride has a nice ring to it.

As for the shipping. I think these characters are free to love whoever they want. That's what makes them human. Building a relationship for the people you care about no matter what species they may appear to be.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

There are fans who are loving what's happening in the comics right now. Its a nice change of pace and I'm loving every minute of it. It seems some of you would rather all these characters be one dimensional and do what they always used to do. But the reality is they are free to do whatever they want now that Mutant Town has become the thing.. And if its trying to be more human. Then they should should be able to blend in and do what they always wanted to do. And that's be part of a community even though most of the mutants used to be human.

As for the political stuff. I think that's being blown way out of proportion. Mutant Town needs a functioning government otherwise Old Hobs would become its dictator. So the idea of them starting an election for Mayor would help stabilize that area. Mayor Pride has a nice ring to it.

As for the shipping. I think these characters are free to love whoever they want. That's what makes them human. Building a relationship for the people you care about no matter what species they may appear to be.

I sincerely disagree. The feedback is nowhere close to universally positive. While you found it refreshing, that is fine, but the breather is still going over a year later. The new characters are one dimensional and the existing characters and plot points are forgotten. I am not a Republican nor a Democrat and prefer to ignore the violate political nature of the current world, however in an attempt of escapism form it, I look to comics, which are currently screaming it. IDW through TMNT's current direction is running political statements all over the title and is making it uncomfortable because it is not what TMNT is all about. There was the gay kiss, the ambiguous gendered mutants, the throw away line just to raise eye brows with Leonardo and Koya hooking up was unnecessary and not going to happen, a peaceful protest that is supposed to get the one who created the situation to turn a new leaf( it will never happen), and the whole mayor of mutant town concept is ridiculous. There are no legal grounds to have a political position in Mutant Town. Mutant Town is a few streets of New York City sectioned off which has elected Baxter Stockman as its mayor and assumingly Cuomo as governor of the state. They have to have legal legislation to even allow for such a race. Then if you wanted such a race why Sally Pride? There are others that are more of a leader than she is.

While the political statements have dominated the last several issues Lita's mission to prevent the future just seems like a selfish mission. Leonardo pulls a Luke Skywalker and disappears while Michelangelo leaves as well, but does the opposite and exposes things. The future she seeks to prevent relies on Jennika not killing Karai for revenge? Meh. What about several other things that could have been stopped before that? Why did Lita travel to the farmhouse if they would not have met her until they all moved into the dojo? The Last Ronin has high stakes in a dark future that I can understand wanting to prevent yet this proposed future to be avoided isn't earth shattering. Lita might want to do a crossover and help Michelangelo over in the alternate future.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I sincerely disagree. The feedback is nowhere close to universally positive. While you found it refreshing, that is fine, but the breather is still going over a year later. The new characters are one dimensional and the existing characters and plot points are forgotten. I am not a Republican nor a Democrat and prefer to ignore the violate political nature of the current world, however in an attempt of escapism form it, I look to comics, which are currently screaming it. IDW through TMNT's current direction is running political statements all over the title and is making it uncomfortable because it is not what TMNT is all about. There was the gay kiss, the ambiguous gendered mutants, the throw away line just to raise eye brows with Leonardo and Koya hooking up was unnecessary and not going to happen, a peaceful protest that is supposed to get the one who created the situation to turn a new leaf( it will never happen), and the whole mayor of mutant town concept is ridiculous. There are no legal grounds to have a political position in Mutant Town. Mutant Town is a few streets of New York City sectioned off which has elected Baxter Stockman as its mayor and assumingly Cuomo as governor of the state. They have to have legal legislation to even allow for such a race. Then if you wanted such a race why Sally Pride? There are others that are more of a leader than she is.

While the political statements have dominated the last several issues Lita's mission to prevent the future just seems like a selfish mission. Leonardo pulls a Luke Skywalker and disappears while Michelangelo leaves as well, but does the opposite and exposes things. The future she seeks to prevent relies on Jennika not killing Karai for revenge? Meh. What about several other things that could have been stopped before that? Why did Lita travel to the farmhouse if they would not have met her until they all moved into the dojo? The Last Ronin has high stakes in a dark future that I can understand wanting to prevent yet this proposed future to be avoided isn't earth shattering. Lita might want to do a crossover and help Michelangelo over in the alternate future.

Well this is just your own opinion and I'm sticking with mine. Let's leave it at that.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Well this is just your own opinion and I'm sticking with mine. Let's leave it at that.

That is what makes the world go round and I respect that. I just wanted a wider spectrum of feedback on the issue.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

There are fans who are loving what's happening in the comics right now.

Though that's true of any comic book anywhere, ever.