Zack Snyder's "Fountainhead"

*Andrew NDB* · 05-07-2021, 02:29 AM

The link:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/snyder-...-fountainhead/

Zack Snyder says: "We need a more liberal government to do ‘The Fountainhead’ so that everyone won’t freak out."

Yeesh. Really? More than we have now? Leo? Anybody?

*Leo656* · 05-07-2021, 03:03 AM

I mean, I kinda get what he means. I never read the entire book, but I've read a lot about it and about Objectivist theory - much (not all) of it I strongly agree with - but the fact is that a TON of Objectivist ideas simply go directly against the grain of what is being pushed and promoted nowadays.

I disagree with him that it's about government specifically, though (although most Objectivists tend to skew Conservative). It's about EVERYTHING, right now. Our society is presently conditioned to accept Groupthink over individual thought and "art by committee" over genuine freedom of expression. To literally tell a story, Right Now, about a guy who becomes so frustrated by Group-Thinkers tinkering and meddling with his genuine creative works, to the point where he'd rather destroy them... well, that's very contrary to what we're told we "ought" to be favoring, Right Now. Right Now, nobody is "Special", everybody gets a trophy, and individual accomplishments are an "attack" on those who fail to achieve. We don't need to move away from a certain type of government before the ideas presented by "The Fountainhead" can go down with a general audience; we need a complete 180 on our entire way of thinking.

I mean, if he wanted to he could just make a documentary about his struggles on the DC films up through and including "Justice League", and his constant scraps with WB. That story is pretty much "The Fountainhead" in Real Life.

He literally lived it (even threatening to "blow that f*cking thing up" if he wasn't granted full control on ZSJL, or if they tried to make him include footage he hadn't shot, and so on).

I'm not shocked that that book would resonate so strongly with him, though, to the point where he'd want to adapt it. I'm not sure if Zack Snyder The Person is actually an Objectivist, but it's VERY obvious that Objectivism strongly influences very much of his work and I don't doubt at all that he at least believes in SOME of it, for sure. Things like "just let creators create", and the idea that there are some people who are just plain "better" and "more special" than others, and that we should just let them be who they are rather than try and force them to bow to societal convention because their "leadership" will eventually come to benefit society as a whole... Yeah, I can 100% believe that those are things he truly believes. And I personally don't disagree, either, and that's partly what I take away (in a positive sense) from so many of his movies. I think those ideas are generally correct.

But they're not "polite" and they sound "mean" sometimes, and so they're definitely not fashionable Right Now. So I agree that it's not a good time to make that movie right this minute, but I disagree about Why, and I don't think it's as much about Government as it is just about People in general.

But I do absolutely think that if you're gonna adapt "The Fountainhead", Zack Snyder is pretty much The Guy To Do That. Like I said, he more or less lived it; if anyone else ended up doing it, it would be a tragic missed opportunity. But cultural climate will definitely have to shift, first.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-07-2021, 05:53 AM

Snyder is a coward.
Artist should not be afraid of creating something controversial, especially if its topical.

On contrary, good artist will embrace this opportunity to see how people will react to his work.

*Andrew NDB* · 05-07-2021, 06:01 AM

But that a creator would actually say we would need a "more liberal government" before he can even attempt a thing?

This says so much. About the establishment for sure... but mostly about him.

I guess kudos to him for making films completely devoid of modern day politics until now, when he suddenly places his latest thing on the chopping block of such politics.

Like, "Let's hope this whole Green New Deal thing becomes a thing... or maybe when you're forced to... then maybe you'll like this thing. But maybe we should wait 10 years."

Yeesh. Idk.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-07-2021, 06:40 AM

It is the same argument SJWs made about Joker - that it is "glorifies" alt-Rights, even Joker is much closer to the Anarchist and hates Establishment, and that a lot of people will join alt-Right, if they watch it.

I've seen some SJWs which were opposed to publishing some books and even science papers, because, it might have "emboldened" their opposition.

It is almost like they want to censor art and science, just to keep their influence unopposed.

*neatoman* · 05-07-2021, 08:09 AM

I don't even understand the leftwing criticism of Joker. The premise is that Arthur can't afford the psychiatric help he needs and the social program that gives him the only help that he can afford is shut down due to budget cuts, meanwhile a rich guy who downplays the plight of the poor is running for office which just escalates the problems. You'd figure the movie would be quite aligned towards most leftwing ideologies.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-07-2021, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't even understand the leftwing criticism of Joker. The premise is that Arthur can't afford the psychiatric help he needs and the social program that gives him the only help that he can afford is shut down due to budget cuts, meanwhile a rich guy who downplays the plight of the poor is running for office which just escalates the problems. You'd figure the movie would be quite aligned towards most leftwing ideologies.

Me neither - not only premise is not unique, but it also more or less "power fantasy" of a teenage Anarchist!

I guess, SJW see Joker as an inherently alt-Right mascot, due to his "ideology" (doing horrible things in ironic way) being "embraced" by some people from 4Chan and the like. And since 4Chan people considered to be "source of all evil in the INTERNET", thus Joker is a mascot of evil and should not be glorified.

That's the best theory I can offer.

Even if its true a lot of this things don't make sense under closer scrutiny, but we are talking about people who believe that men can become women via castration, so...

*Coola Yagami* · 05-07-2021, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't even understand the leftwing criticism of Joker. The premise is that Arthur can't afford the psychiatric help he needs and the social program that gives him the only help that he can afford is shut down due to budget cuts, meanwhile a rich guy who downplays the plight of the poor is running for office which just escalates the problems. You'd figure the movie would be quite aligned towards most leftwing ideologies.

From my understanding it was cause we were still in a 'white man evil' era, so how dare we have a sympathetic white man turned evil by the system? Everybody knows white people are evil cause they're evil."

And also the fear that all the 4chan incels will see themselves in the Joker and 'rise up' and start shootings and the like. You know relating to how the guy gets pushed until he gets 'pushed too far and snaps'.

The media was outright salivating at the mouth waiting for some sort of shooting event to pin this movie on. Literally just salivating. I'm so glad nothing happened so they could all STFU.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-07-2021, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The media was outright salivating at the mouth waiting for some sort of shooting event to pin this movie on. Literally just salivating. I'm so glad nothing happened so they could all STFU.

Wishing death upon random people just to prove their ideology is superior is very "compassionate and empathic". This is why I (and from the look of it a lot of other sensible people) can't take Lefties seriously.

*Coola Yagami* · 05-07-2021, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumac

Wishing death upon random people just to prove their ideology is superior is very "compassionate and empathic". This is why I (and from the look of it a lot of other sensible people) can't take Lefties seriously.

That's why I refuse to choose a side except my own.

~~Sumac~~ · 05-07-2021, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

That's why I refuse to choose a side except my own.

Sensible choice.

05-07-2021, 02:29 AM	#1
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,279	Zack Snyder's "Fountainhead" The link: https://www.darkhorizons.com/snyder-...-fountainhead/ Zack Snyder says: "We need a more liberal government to do ‘The Fountainhead’ so that everyone won’t freak out." Yeesh. Really? More than we have now? Leo? Anybody? __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

05-07-2021, 03:03 AM	#2
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	I mean, I kinda get what he means. I never read the entire book, but I've read a lot about it and about Objectivist theory - much (not all) of it I strongly agree with - but the fact is that a TON of Objectivist ideas simply go directly against the grain of what is being pushed and promoted nowadays. I disagree with him that it's about government specifically, though (although most Objectivists tend to skew Conservative). It's about EVERYTHING, right now. Our society is presently conditioned to accept Groupthink over individual thought and "art by committee" over genuine freedom of expression. To literally tell a story, Right Now, about a guy who becomes so frustrated by Group-Thinkers tinkering and meddling with his genuine creative works, to the point where he'd rather destroy them... well, that's very contrary to what we're told we "ought" to be favoring, Right Now. Right Now, nobody is "Special", everybody gets a trophy, and individual accomplishments are an "attack" on those who fail to achieve. We don't need to move away from a certain type of government before the ideas presented by "The Fountainhead" can go down with a general audience; we need a complete 180 on our entire way of thinking. I mean, if he wanted to he could just make a documentary about his struggles on the DC films up through and including "Justice League", and his constant scraps with WB. That story is pretty much "The Fountainhead" in Real Life. He literally lived it (even threatening to "blow that fcking thing up" if he wasn't granted full control on ZSJL, or if they tried to make him include footage he hadn't shot, and so on). I'm not shocked that that book would resonate so strongly with him, though, to the point where he'd want to adapt it. I'm not sure if Zack Snyder The Person is actually an Objectivist, but it's VERY obvious that Objectivism strongly influences very much of his work and I don't doubt at all that he at least believes in SOME of it, for sure. Things like "just let creators create", and the idea that there are some people who are just plain "better" and "more special" than others, and that we should just let them be who they are rather than try and force them to bow to societal convention because their "leadership" will eventually come to benefit society as a whole... Yeah, I can 100% believe that those are things he truly believes. And I personally don't disagree, either, and that's partly what I take away (in a positive sense) from so many of his movies. I think those ideas are generally correct. But they're not "polite" and they sound "mean" sometimes, and so they're definitely not fashionable Right Now. So I agree that it's not a good time to make that movie right this minute, but I disagree about Why, and I don't think it's as much about Government as it is just about People in general. But I do absolutely think that if you're gonna adapt "The Fountainhead", Zack Snyder is pretty much The Guy To Do That. Like I said, he more or less lived it; if anyone else ended up doing it, it would be a tragic missed opportunity. But cultural climate will definitely have to shift, first. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."* nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

05-07-2021, 06:01 AM	#4
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,279	But that a creator would actually say we would need a "more liberal government" before he can even attempt a thing? This says so much. About the establishment for sure... but mostly about him. I guess kudos to him for making films completely devoid of modern day politics until now, when he suddenly places his latest thing on the chopping block of such politics. Like, "Let's hope this whole Green New Deal thing becomes a thing... or maybe when you're forced to... then maybe you'll like this thing. But maybe we should wait 10 years." Yeesh. Idk. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

05-07-2021, 05:53 AM	#3
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	Snyder is a coward. Artist should not be afraid of creating something controversial, especially if its topical. On contrary, good artist will embrace this opportunity to see how people will react to his work.

05-07-2021, 06:40 AM	#5
~~Sumac~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 6,129	It is the same argument SJWs made about Joker - that it is "glorifies" alt-Rights, even Joker is much closer to the Anarchist and hates Establishment, and that a lot of people will join alt-Right, if they watch it. I've seen some SJWs which were opposed to publishing some books and even science papers, because, it might have "emboldened" their opposition. It is almost like they want to censor art and science, just to keep their influence unopposed.