Anything that you don't like about well-liked versions of the TMNT?

[TheLabRat]

Image comic(Urban Legend) Karai is also continues the story of Mirage Karai. She take care of her brain-dead daughter and secretly killed Shredder’s minions. She despise Oroku Saki and title of "Shredder".

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

On the subject of 2012 Karai… she’s not even Karai, she’s Miwa.

The door is completely open for a “real” Karai to exist as someone Saki revered so much that he named his adopted daughter after her.



Almost certainly not? I’d say certainly not. All evidence points to Karai being a few years older than Saki in
Mirage.



I’m with Andrew on this. Unfortunately we never learn Karai’s surname in Mirage but her being an Oroku would have been a massive omission and doesn’t make any sense. Plus we know from the Gang Wars arc that the Shredder Loyalists were operating in direct defiance of her.

Valid points

Karai did look awesome in the mirage comics. Buff as I recall and wearing the one piece suit. Been a while since reading it but I always enjoyed they made her look tough.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I’m with Andrew on this. Unfortunately we never learn Karai’s surname in Mirage but her being an Oroku would have been a massive omission and doesn’t make any sense. Plus we know from the Gang Wars arc that the Shredder Loyalists were operating in direct defiance of her.

Right. And even with the Shredder Elite... if she was related to Saki, wouldn't it have behooved her to announce that lineage to them? That might have immensely helped her case to get them in line.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Right. And even with the Shredder Elite... if she was related to Saki, wouldn't it have behooved her to announce that lineage to them? That might have immensely helped her case to get them in line.

Agreed. Quite simply put, they would somehow tie it into the storyline if she was related to him. If it keeps you guessing if she is related to Oroku Saki. , chances are she isn't

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TylerD

If it keeps you guessing if she is related to Oroku Saki

If it keeps you guessing that then I guess the question would be... why is it keeping you guessing that? She can't be his daughter because she has a grown-ass adult daughter. If she's his 3rd cousin or something, #1, what'd be the point of that and how would that help or play into anything we've ever seen with Mirage Karai? The contrary if anything.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

If it keeps you guessing that then I guess the question would be... why is it keeping you guessing that? She can't be his daughter because she has a grown-ass adult daughter. If she's his 3rd cousin or something, #1, what'd be the point of that and how would that help or play into anything we've ever seen with Mirage Karai? The contrary if anything.

I agree , and I don't overly like the storyline being a direct daughter under Oroku, however the way IDW has it currently being a distant relative I can get on board with. It doesn't bother me either way if she is related or not related. I just needed clarity more less on Mirage. Been a while since I have read the mirage comics and couldn't remember if there was any evidence suggesting she was related to Oroku, but it's sounding like a definite no lol.

[Andrew NDB]

Honestly, making Karai so attached to Saki in subsequent universes is fairly insulting to the character, IMO.

[TheLabRat]

She shouldn’t have any blood or family ties to Shredder.

I also like how the Mirage handle the relationship between her and Leo. There’s no weird romantic tension between them. Mirage Leo was wary of her. She’s not a good person and also a manipulator, but as long as she sticks to the peace treaty they made, she’s not his enemy. This better than 2003 Leo caring way too much about 2003 Karai, or the 2012 Leo and 2012 Karai pairing nonsense.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

She shouldn’t have any blood or family ties to Shredder.

I also like how the Mirage handle the relationship between her and Leo. There’s no weird romantic tension between them. Mirage Leo was wary of her. She’s not a good person and also a manipulator, but as long as she sticks to the peace treaty they made, she’s not his enemy. This better than 2003 Leo caring way too much about 2003 Karai, or the 2012 Leo and 2012 Karai pairing nonsense.

I don't really understand the obsession with trying to give any of the turtles love interests, especially not human ones. I get that (normally) writers do give main characters love interests as a way of giving them some extra narrative weight to them, but it's not like every character needs one. And the fact that they anomalous beings that don't even resemble humans beyond the basic frame, it just gets really weird and off-putting to try and pair them up with humans like this.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Honestly, making Karai so attached to Saki in subsequent universes is fairly insulting to the character, IMO.

I think the versions that have her tied to Oroku, do it so readers think she is extra bad ass or extra skilled. It's like they think that by her being related gives more shock value or something. But I agree, she is a very good character on her. I don't mind IDW giving her a distant family relative , but being a daughter or anything closer than a distant family member seems silly to me.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Honestly, making Karai so attached to Saki in subsequent universes is fairly insulting to the character, IMO.

I agree and I’ve said it a million times. But what’s a million and one?

It all started with 4kids, who I don’t necessarily fault because of the whole Ch’rell plot. But it drives me nuts that every subsequent version just took that and ran with it. To date, the most faithful adaption of her character is ****ing Tournament Fighters lol.

I feel the same way about the rainbow masks. I get why FW did it, don’t fault them, don’t care that their silly toy commercial wanted to maximize sales. But starting with the 1990 movie, why not go back to red? Playmates already hated the movie when they saw the test screening, and as far as I know they weren’t funding it at all, so f*ck ‘em!

They all had different body types and facial molds, so it would have been easy to tell them apart. Or even better, how badass would it have been if they started with rainbow but the “it’s time to go back” line cut to the 4 guys all wearing red to begin the third act?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TylerD

I think the versions that have her tied to Oroku, do it so readers think she is extra bad ass or extra skilled.

Which only proves my point of how insulting it is to the character. So, Karai can only achieve maximum "bad ass" or "skilled" status if she's somehow related to and subsequently subservient to Oroku Saki? She can't just be a strong (female) character independent of him, as she was created to be?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Mirage: April O'Neil's origin.

Fred Wolf: Those monstrous mutations the Turtles experienced during Season 9 and early Season 10. I also think the Technodrome coul'dve moved around a little bit more. And many mid-season episodes lacked some action scenes.

Archie: It took some time until these comics became interesting.

Fleetway: Michelangelo not being allowed use his nunchucks (I know why), and instead using a bo stick or katana swords. Couldn't he at least use some other Japanese signature weapon?

Original film trilogy. Removing the extraterrestrial origin of the mutagen. And Tatsu could've led the Foot Clan in Secret of the Ooze.

4 Kids: The Ninja Tribunal season.

2012–2017 Nickelodeon: April O'Neil falling into the territory of bad writing when her origin was revelaed. I also don't think they needed to rely on crossovers with the Fred Wolf Turtles to keep the show going.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Original film trilogy.And Tatsu could've led the Foot Clan in Secret of the Ooze.

4 Kids: The Ninja Tribunal season.

2012–2017 Nickelodeon: April O'Neil falling into the territory of bad writing when her origin was revelaed.

Yeah the Tatsu thing is annoying. I know everyone likes Shredder and he sells toys, but we’re supposed to believe he survived that? Beyond that, we’re supposed to believe the police let the garbage man drive off with a dead body and drop it at the dump? C’mon now.

Agreed on Ninja Tribunal.

Agreed on 2012 April.

Disagree on the crossover thing. The season 4 one was a fun one-shot episode. That season would go largely unchanged without it. The second one was almost completely forgettable. The only memorable thing about it was KMR as FW Shredder. Again, season 5 would have been just fine without it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Yeah the Tatsu thing is annoying. I know everyone likes Shredder and he sells toys, but we’re supposed to believe he survived that? Beyond that, we’re supposed to believe the police let the garbage man drive off with a dead body and drop it at the dump? C’mon now.

Agreed on Ninja Tribunal.

Agreed on 2012 April.

Disagree on the crossover thing. The season 4 one was a fun one-shot episode. That season would go largely unchanged without it. The second one was almost completely forgettable. The only memorable thing about it was KMR as FW Shredder. Again, season 5 would have been just fine without it.

I loved the 2017 Bebop and Rocksteady crossovers. Just thought the marketing of the series relied to much on constantly bringing the back Fred Wolf Turtles.

[Zog The Magnificent]

It's been a while, so if anyone is willing, I'd love to hear a rundown of the reasons you dislike the Ninja Tribunal season. I actually enjoy that season, so it would be interesting to hear from the other side.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

It's been a while, so if anyone is willing, I'd love to hear a rundown of the reasons you dislike the Ninja Tribunal season. I actually enjoy that season, so it would be interesting to hear from the other side.

The Turtles should not posess any magic abilities or have any superpowers. All their skills should come from practicing Japanese martial arts and ninjutsu. If you want a TMNT character transforming into a dragon, why not let the Turtles team up with the Warrior Dragon, as in the Archieverse?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

The Turtles should not posess any magic abilities or have any superpowers. All their skills should come from practicing Japanese martial arts and ninjutsu. If you want a TMNT character transforming into a dragon, why not let the Turtles team up with the Warrior Dragon, as in the Archieverse?

What about going into spirit realms through meditation and things of that nature? Because that hasn't exactly been uncommon for them to do.

[TylerD]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which only proves my point of how insulting it is to the character. So, Karai can only achieve maximum "bad ass" or "skilled" status if she's somehow related to and subsequently subservient to Oroku Saki? She can't just be a strong (female) character independent of him, as she was created to be?

That's a fair point. It doesn't overly bother me one way or another. Karai is always a great character, so I understand the frustration of having her related to shredder. She doesn't need it that's fair. Her character is strong enough on its own. Wirb that said. I don't mind either or storyline

Same with some storylines Yoshi is splinter and some he is splinters master. As long as the background story is good, I am intrigued. I like the current IDW storyline. A distant relative. I don't think it takes away from her character, but I understand some thinking it's unnecessary to tie the two together

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

It's been a while, so if anyone is willing, I'd love to hear a rundown of the reasons you dislike the Ninja Tribunal season. I actually enjoy that season, so it would be interesting to hear from the other side.

Oh boy. If I ever do a 4kids rewatch, I’ll try to write a coherent review, but for now I’ll just ramble lol.

For starters, I’ll say I always hated it because there was all this incredible build up, with the season 4 finale ending on that cliffhanger… only for it to be taken away from us for years. I remember I was DYING to see this season, and I was so happy when we finally got it, but it just didn’t deliver. Maybe I was expecting to much.

As for the season itself, let’s start with the absolute nonsense:

- Too many characters. Several episodes have Mike, Don and Raph with like 2 lines or less.

- No balls. Speaking of too many characters, there is NO reason the acolytes were resurrected. The only part of the season I enjoyed at all was the brief period they were “dead”. There is absolutely zero stakes if the Tribunal can just resurrect anyone at will.

- No way in hell should Scottie Ray have voiced Demon Shredder. How does it make any sense that a Japanese man who lived centuries ago had the exact same voice as an alien from across the galaxy? They should have got a Japanese VA.

- Speaking of Shredder. The whole nonsense “Karai is connected to demon Shredder because she wears the armor!” thing was corny crap. It’s just steel lol.

- Forced Leo melodrama. I liked the concept of “traumatized Leo” in season 4 but the execution was lacking and I quickly found him to be insufferable up until the Ancient One story. The whole not being worthy of a weapon thing was stupid and contrived.

- The Hamato Yoshi connection. It stunk that the big epic conclusion was the ghost of Yoshi killing demon Shredder. They had no connection whatsoever. Yoshi and Splinter hated the Tribunal because they refused to help kill Ch’rell, but that’s it. Also the plot hole of Splinter knowing about the whole Utrom thing before Season 1.

- This is nitpicky, but the turtles vocally summoning their mystic powers got obnoxious.

- It ran too long. This story could have easily been like 6-7 episodes. Many of the episodes feel samey and just blend together.