Do you think the 1990 film will ever be topped?

[jignat]

The first live action film turned 30 last year and imo it is the best film by a mile.

After the films went into hiatus after 3, I was eager for the 2007 CGI film. While I thought it was good, it was not a big mainstream hit.

The 2014/2016 Bay-produced films were significantly worse and i hated their designs.

So, has the film franchise reached its peak?

[Leo656]

Nope. Not even mathematically possible. It's the best anyone's ever gonna do and people should make peace with that.

It owes everything to the fact that it was essentially an "independent" film. We've seen what Hollywood does when they make a TMNT film: They make a giant toy commercial.

There will never be another "indie" attempt at TMNT, aside from fan films. All Hollywood attempts are destined to be the same type of garbage. The 1990 film is the best we can ever expect and we should be grateful we even got that.

[Prowler]

No.

It was the first ever TMNT movie and, by far, the best one to date. And there's been several TMNT movies already. So I have zero hopes to ever see a TMNT movie as good as the 1990 one. Let alone a better one.

[Jester]

I'mma come out with a strong "Maybe..."

I love the Steve Barron film. It takes Mirage and Fred Wolf and blends them into a cohesive movie that has layers (I may be biased, but there's a lot of nuance in that movie.) It's a testament to Barron's care for the source material (The man used pages and panels of the comics as storyboards for crying out loud.) that that movie works even to this day.

IF (and it's a big IF) you can get a film maker who is willing to put that much care into the film, we could have a movie to equal the 1st....and MAYBE even top it.

I'm not sure who would be willing to do that kind of leg-work on such a niche property, but it could happen...maybe...

[Leo656]

"The filmmaker" is an irrelevant variable in the larger picture.

It's "The Studio". They control what we see, and they give "the filmmaker" his direction. And to "the studio", TMNT is just a kids' toy property. That's how it is now and how it's always going to stay.

Like sure, what Bay did to the brand was unforgivable, and he DID have more leeway than most other producer/director types would have had in his position... but let's be honest, what else was Paramount ever gonna give the green light to? "A super-hero movie aimed at selling toys" is all any movie studio is gonna throw $100 million+ at.

"Out of the Shadows" is realistically how everything is gonna look from now on, because it fits "the template" of what kind of movies Hollywood can "sell".

[Andrew NDB]

Any chance of that went out the door in 2009. If a movie came out now that was in any way better than 1990, it would be in spite of a flotilla of factors working against it.

[Jester]

That thought crossed my mind when I saw that another thread recently updated was the "Should Laird have sold to Viacom/Nick". I thought, "I bet the biggest hurdle to a good TMNT film anymore is Viacom."

Studio meddling is most definitely going to make this hard, but I just never like to be absolute about anything.

[IMJ]

Given the number actual "remakes" out there already they should give the story that was the 90's film another go around but with modern special effects and without that sort of cheap, urban stage set that always got with Platinum films of that era.

Don't get me wrong, I love the first movie. I'm only saying that it could be remade to follow those key beats from the Mirage Comic but with modern SFX. It wouldn't be entirely uncalled for. Hell, they were on their way to remaking Eric Draven's Crow story for God's sake.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It owes everything to the fact that it was essentially an "independent" film. We've seen what Hollywood does when they make a TMNT film: They make a giant toy commercial.

This is the right answer.

The other part of being an indy movie is the fact that they made that move for $12 million. That's pennies in today's money, but it was still not a lot of money back then. They built costumes with brand new tech and pulled the whole damn thing together with $12 million. You can bet all of that was well spent, and they made it work because they had to. And they wanted to make that movie.

[Powder]

No. It was a work of art. Everything is else is product first, art second, if art even factors in at all.

But, I think it would be possible to make something that is equally impressive, for different reasons. Imagine a Guardians Of The Galaxy style Fugitoid/Triceraton arc movie with the right amount of action, spaceship chases, dimension hopping, legitimately good CGI, etc. Man...

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

This is the right answer.

The other part of being an indy movie is the fact that they made that move for $12 million. That's pennies in today's money, but it was still not a lot of money back then. They built costumes with brand new tech and pulled the whole damn thing together with $12 million. You can bet all of that was well spent, and they made it work because they had to. And they wanted to make that movie.

Lack of resources is always a good source of creativity/ingenuity.

The Star Wars prequels and sequels showed us both ends of the spectrum.

The OT: One guy with very little money having to rely on creative tricks to make big things happen with very little.

The prequels: The same guy calling the shots but who now has a ton of money. It has soul but wasn't nearly as good as it would have been had he/they been working under the same kind of conditions as the OT.

The sequels: No "guy" anymore, just suits and a whooooole lot of money now. Big surprise: completely soulless. Just like the 2014 and 2016 TMNT movies.

[Lord Nightwalker]

No. It seems like they don't really have a handle on TMNT.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

This is the right answer.

The other part of being an indy movie is the fact that they made that move for $12 million. That's pennies in today's money, but it was still not a lot of money back then. They built costumes with brand new tech and pulled the whole damn thing together with $12 million. You can bet all of that was well spent, and they made it work because they had to. And they wanted to make that movie.

This is true. At the time it really was a quality indie flick.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Lack of resources is always a good source of creativity/ingenuity.

100%

Originally Posted by Powder

No. It was a work of art. Everything is else is product first, art second, if art even factors in at all.

But, I think it would be possible to make something that is equally impressive, for different reasons. Imagine a Guardians Of The Galaxy style Fugitoid/Triceraton arc movie with the right amount of action, spaceship chases, dimension hopping, legitimately good CGI, etc. Man...

This is how I feel. There are certain aspects that can't be topped, and I absolutely love the 1990 film for. The indie flavor that fits Mirage so well, the confidence the film shows by maintaining a somber, calm tone, the character work.
But Hollywood could potentially make a kick ass TMNT movie that does things the 1990 film couldn't. Guardians of the Galaxy is the right idea, even if I don't particularly love that film, because I could appreciate that approach and treatment of the material.

I still think there is hope for another great TMNT movie. We've seen Nick try a few different things so far. They've had time to sit back and watch what sells and what doesn't. Rise and the feature films failed, while the Neca toy sales and Last Ronin have succeeded. They will take the time to evaluate and they will take something away from that. They have to if they want to make money.

[Rabbit Kraken Zeo]

III is my favorite and always will be, I appreciate 1 and 2 and to the displeasure of the fan base I maybe the only one who finds 3 more valuable then 1 and 2 combined. Look I love 1 and 2 but i prefer 3 specifically because of Walker's character and the time travel business. The entire plot felt very fun and enjoyable; the entire time I am feeling that moment from A to B.

Now for the topic in regards; the first film will always have a place in my heart to be remembered for being the first ever. It will stand the test of time for sure and i don't think many others can conquer it however considering my love for the 3rd I just prefer that film more but will any other really take over 1? No. To a degree--- the first film shapes the universe of our legendary turtles into live action so of course that feeling is over the top but again i still love all 3 but prefer the 3rd film as personal favorite.

[Leo656]

I'm gonna need more clarification on this.

What "character" of Walker? He's barely a character at all, he's "Stock Mustache-Twirling Movie Villain 32-C (Sans Mustache)." He's like he just stepped out of a book of Bad Guy Cliches and tried to do all of them at once. All he was missing was a big sign around his neck saying "I'm A Villain, Get It?" He's the most one-dimensional character in the entire trilogy, which says a lot when two of those characters happen to be a mutant baby wolf and a baby mutant snapping turtle, both of whom are barely capable of speech (yet still somehow manage to portray more depth than Walker does).

I don't know. No disrespect intended but it would help me greatly if you could show more of your work on this. So I could at least understand where you're coming from.

[ABrown]

I consider the 2007 CGI movie to be right there with it at the top on my list of favorite TMNT movies. The 1990 movie is my favorite, but 2007 TMNT is pretty damn close.

[Zulithe]

It was the perfect movie for 9yo me in the time that it came out, so for that kid version of myself it won't ever be topped. It's far from a perfect movie though and I do think it's possible to create a better TMNT film, I just don't think the right combination of talent, timing, budget, etc., will come together for it to actually happen. Particularly not under Nickelodeon who seems perfectly happy to put out product that clearly isn't being made for the passion of it, with some exception given to the 2012 series.

I love what they accomplished with the 1990 film. It is a treasure.

[sdp]

It's already been surpassed by TMNT 2014.

[Zulithe]

Originally Posted by sdp

It's already been surpassed by TMNT 2014.

Well that's certainly a take!