Alec Baldwin shoots and kills his own cinematographer

[Sumac]

So much deflection from a ****** human.
Funny thing, even if he won't end up in jail, he still will live with this guilt up until the end of his days.

I think, if he won't be found guilty, this punishment is enough.

[Andrew NDB]

I honestly don't think he will be even charged with anything, let alone tried. I don't necessarily think he should be, either. Though I don't believe his "I didn't pull the trigger" thing for a second. Smacks of, "Well, can you prove that I did?" Because it sounds way better if he just claims he didn't.

It doesn't really matter though, IMO. Even if he were to have stopped and checked the chamber... what was he supposed to do? Stop when he sees that there's something in the chamber? There was supposed to be anyway, right? A blank? Then what is he supposed to do, take it out and look at it? I mean, maybe? I would. Most actors probably would. But it's not really on him at that point.

[frank_one]

Baldwin is an actor. He was there to act, with a gun that was supposed to be harmless. Other people were in charge of the safety of that working place. They told him it was safe to play with the gun, that's all he needed to know. They were wrong, they will pay. Baldwin is not responsible for what happened. No matter how his finger interacted with the trigger.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I honestly don't think he will be even charged with anything, let alone tried. I don't necessarily think he should be, either. Though I don't believe his "I didn't pull the trigger" thing for a second. Smacks of, "Well, can you prove that I did?" Because it sounds way better if he just claims he didn't.

It doesn't really matter though, IMO. Even if he were to have stopped and checked the chamber... what was he supposed to do? Stop when he sees that there's something in the chamber? There was supposed to be anyway, right? A blank? Then what is he supposed to do, take it out and look at it? I mean, maybe? I would. Most actors probably would. But it's not really on him at that point.

If he were "just" an actor and not also involved in the "making the movie & hiring people to work it" aspect, I'd say sure but in this case, he isn't just the actor on set. Its his movie. He hired the people who hired people to make the movie safe and was aware they were doing a terrible job keeping the movie safe.... so yeah, firearms safety says he himself should have checked that firearm. Any normal, responsible gun owner would have checked that thing & then made sure NOT to point it at any living human being that wasn't trying to kill them with hands, fist, feet skateboard or any other blunt force object and/or their own gun...

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Funny thing, even if he won't end up in jail, he still will live with this guilt up until the end of his days.

I think, if he won't be found guilty, this punishment is enough.

Nah, his conscience is totally clean. Totally. Totally.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/alec-bald...120334649.html

EDIT: "Bo Duke" apparently has an opinion on the whole thing:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/john-schn...041557767.html

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Baldwin is an actor. He was there to act, with a gun that was supposed to be harmless. Other people were in charge of the safety of that working place. They told him it was safe to play with the gun, that's all he needed to know. They were wrong, they will pay. Baldwin is not responsible for what happened. No matter how his finger interacted with the trigger.

Well we don't know all of the details, and the action around it seems to be that there may have been more going on - not necessarily from Baldwin himself, but in the production he was managing.

So basically if what you outlined above was all there is in it's purest form, then sure. But that's why we have a court system, which more and more I'm convinced is the last bastion of clear judgement in this country right now. It's in the courts that all of the finer and more intellectual and sophisticated details will come out that a real judgement can be made.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by IMJ

So basically if what you outlined above was all there is in it's purest form, then sure. But that's why we have a court system, which more and more I'm convinced is the last bastion of clear judgement in this country right now. It's in the courts that all of the finer and more intellectual and sophisticated details will come out that a real judgement can be made.

Right. I was just thinking of Baldwin as an actor on a set but that's not the full story as he was also the main (I guess) producer for the project. He COULD have some responsibility after all. We will see.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

If he were "just" an actor and not also involved in the "making the movie & hiring people to work it" aspect, I'd say sure but in this case, he isn't just the actor on set. Its his movie. He hired the people who hired people to make the movie safe

I guess that's true to a certain extent. It could be looked at like, let's say you're the owner of a car being raced by a driver at a raceway. You hired the guy that's in charge of looking under the car for car bombs. Before the race, the guy says that there's no need to check under the car for a car bomb, because he already checked. Then the car blows up from a car bomb on the first lap killing the driver, and it turns out the guy the car owner hired to check for car bombs had not only never really done that before, but also maybe used to blow up toy cars as a youth. Now it's kind of on the owner, the guy that hired him.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I guess that's true to a certain extent. It could be looked at like, let's say you're the owner of a car being raced by a driver at a raceway. You hired the guy that's in charge of looking under the car for car bombs. Before the race, the guy says that there's no need to check under the car for a car bomb, because he already checked. Then the car blows up from a car bomb on the first lap killing the driver, and it turns out the guy the car owner hired to check for car bombs had not only never really done that before, but also maybe used to blow up toy cars as a youth. Now it's kind of on the owner, the guy that hired him.

There's that, and I'm also feeling that the real.... let's say "truth bomb" of the Baldwin situation will be to vet out whatever was going on against all of the talk of the unhappy production. That's a slippery slope. There are jobs everywhere where people are unhappy and problems ensue, but it's still on the employee to tolerate the situation or find another job.

And so the slippery slope really becomes

-what was going on in the production that may have lead to.... I dunno.... sabotage, foul play, whatever you'd call the priming of the gun incident
-what extent was the "negativity" in the production that caused a "revolt" to the extent that a loaded gun was present
-and if none of that is measurable, then bare minimum (as it sounds like we all understand here) what is Baldwin's liability? For example, an organizational rule might be that the Weapons-Master clears the fire arm and that's it, but if there's a state or Federal Statute somewhere that says, "no, the person of use ALSO clears the firearm" then in that case the higher governmental body takes precedent.

Institutional Directives are trumped by Administrative Directives which are trumped by state directives which are trumped be Federal Directives.

And so as I see it, there are two complexities -

the complexity of whether or not "@$$hole behavior" enabled a crime
the complexity of whether or not "violation of directive" enabled a crime

[joe-eyeball]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Baldwin is not responsible for what happened. No matter how his finger interacted with the trigger.

I 100% guarantee you that even Baldwin himself doesn’t believe this. After all the only logical reason for him to say something as ridiculous as “I didn’t even put my finger on the trigger” is because he knows a civil suit is going to happen. And even if what he did was an accident he is still very much responsible for what happened. Now whether or not he is found responsible in any legal fashion is entirely another thing.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Baldwin is an actor. He was there to act, with a gun that was supposed to be harmless. Other people were in charge of the safety of that working place. They told him it was safe to play with the gun, that's all he needed to know. They were wrong, they will pay. Baldwin is not responsible for what happened. No matter how his finger interacted with the trigger.

Hey Frank. Come on over. I'm going to tell you this firearm is clear & you can point it at one of your friends and/or loved ones & pull the trigger. You pull the trigger & your current/last significant other is standing down range with a 5.56 through their chest & they fall over dead. Who is responsible? For us normal folks, you are. But for pedo elite hollywood types, the gun is at fault or the "other guy" (in this case of Baldwin, the person he hired, lol)...

Flip it, you come over, hand me a gun after having fun at the range. Know what I'm doing first, even though you said its empty? Fvcking checking it, cuz 3ven if we were best friends for 30+ years, I treat EVERY firearm as if its loaded UNTIL I've cleared it... at least three times... lol.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Hey Frank. Come on over. I'm going to tell you this firearm is clear

Yeah, yeah, I get it BUT on an Hollywood set it is different. There's some kind of hierarchy, a shared responsibility, agreements, written and signed contracts that tell who is responsible of whatever is used or done. We are talking about professional stuff, not just two drunk guys like you and me on a street playing with a gun and trying to hit a can.

[Coola Yagami]

Has any of the blame gone to the weapon checker person?

I don't think Alec did anything wrong when they literally pay a person to check the weapons. All the blame should go that person. But I'm assuming that person is a nobody and won't make all the big headlines the way 'Alec Baldwin killed someone' would.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Yeah, yeah, I get it BUT on an Hollywood set it is different. There's some kind of hierarchy, a shared responsibility, agreements, written and signed contracts that tell who is responsible of whatever is used or done. We are talking about professional stuff, not just two drunk guys like you and me on a street playing with a gun and trying to hit a can.

Well, I'm a responsible firearms owner so I wouldn't be drunk or hand you a firearm if you're drunk... Alec is at least partially responsible no matter how you shake it down. He cocked that thing & pulled the trigger. The person he was paying to make sure the firearm was ready for use on set is also responsible for failing to do the one job they had, which apparently was well known that they sucked at that one job as there were other previous issues.... except Baldwin didn't fire that person or check the firearm and someone died.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by joe-eyeball

I 100% guarantee you that even Baldwin himself doesn’t believe this. After all the only logical reason for him to say something as ridiculous as “I didn’t even put my finger on the trigger” is because he knows a civil suit is going to happen.

That's true. I'd never even considered a civil suit in this. I bet that's exactly what's going on.

[Leo656]

Seriously? This is like a textbook case of why civil suits happen in the first place. I swear I called for it on like Page 1 or 2 of the thread. Obviously there was going to be a civil suit, regardless of whether or not anyone went to jail. There'd still be issues of liability and compensation for the victims and their families and whatnot.

Things like this don't happen without SOMEone getting sued. That's why there's Civil Court and Criminal Court in the first place. Whether or not anyone would do time over an incident such as this, THAT was always a big question mark. The civil suit was a promise from the jump, though.

[1987]

Alec Baldwin has apparently threatened someone on twitter for pointing out his hipocrisy



still making it threats after getting away with murder. liberal privilege

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by 1987

Alec Baldwin has apparently threatened someone on twitter for pointing out his hipocrisy

https://i.imgur.com/eSMSK1i.jpg

still making it threats after getting away with murder. liberal privilege

What the ****in' hell. That should get him banned from Twitter. But I guess he has the right politics.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

What the ****in' hell. That should get him banned from Twitter. But I guess he has the right politics.

Liberal Privilege. Same thing that allowed him to get away with murder.

[Leo656]

Add "murder" to the List Of Words Far-Right Dromers Love To Throw Around Despite Having No Clue What They Actually Mean.