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Old 07-28-2021, 08:04 AM   #581
Andrew NDB
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Nah, you have an opinion that you can’t really back up. It is what it is

You got the time to support these constant clickbait articles you post here that are designed to enrage you and earn your click, which you then spread around for more clicks. I don’t think your issue is supporting something. You just don’t want to read the book. It is what it is.
Why on earth would I want to read a book by a perfectly open and honest racist? More importantly, why would you want people to support that?
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:11 AM   #582
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Why on earth would I want to read a book by a perfectly open and honest racist? More importantly, why would you want people to support that?
Why would you want to support it? The same reason you give those articles clicks all the time maybe? Idk why you constantly wade into waters that irritate you, but you don’t actually seem to have a problem with it.

Let alone that you could read the book without supporting it. Just ask Cubed. But everyone knows that. So when you say the reason you haven’t read it is because you don’t want to support the book, it’s not very compelling of an argument.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:19 AM   #583
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So when you say the reason you haven’t read it is because you don’t want to support the book, it’s not very compelling of an argument.


Bro. That's like... the most compelling argument that there could possibly be. LMAO sometimes man... I don't know where you are coming from with some of this stuff..... holy smokes.

I mean... Andrew saying he hasn't read a book or a comic because he doesn't want to support it is literally the most compelling argument than anyone could make. It signals to people that someone has given consideration to the already presented information, has thought about it and made a judgement of conviction given the circumstances, to not spend money on something. That action and reasoning compels people (normal people) to want to know why.... it's the exact same thing when I say not to reward Hollywood financially for something that is clearly manipulative or bait and switch or full of politics that you don't agree with. It's literally the most compelling judgment of rejection!

I mean what in the f could possibly be a more compelling argument in your mind? LMAO! "Andrew didn't read it because he didn't have the time!"?

OMG, man. I mean sometimes you say things or build an argument on what is precisely, literally, undeniably the opposite of reality, man! hahahahahaha OMG
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:35 AM   #584
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Bro. That's like... the most compelling argument that there could possibly be. LMAO sometimes man... I don't know where you are coming from with some of this stuff..... holy smokes.
When you can read it for free?
No, it's not.
It's really. really. not.

Why are you comparing this to financially supporting Hollywood, when the exact point I'm making is that you don't have to support it financially?? I mean, what? Lmao.

You probably skimmed the post. I rather assume that than assume your reading comprehension is poor.
You didn't read the whole post and you missed the point.
This is highly ironic and entertaining for me, because you recently critiqued me for having the mindset of someone who preaches you should "read before you post" like a "mother would tell you", and here you are, forgetting to do that and missing my entire point about supporting/not supporting the book.

Ah, satisfying.

Spoiler:


Now I suppose you'll want to tell me why someone shouldn't have to read it for free. But that would be moving the goal post.

And again, it is sort of a blank statement from someone who is fine supporting these click-bait websites that are designed to cause tension, build walls, and get people agitated. Clicking and sharing those actually supports the articles in question. Articles that are built to cause racial tension, gender tension, etc.

Reading a free book doesn't support anything. At all. It's free. So when Andrew's argument is "I'm not supporting something I don't agree with", I think my skepticism is warranted. Just check out the topics he creates. And Andrew, I'm not trying to rib into you super hard, I'm just making my point.

Now, stick with me - Had I told Andrew that he should purchase the book (aka buy or "financially support"), before making his claim, that might be a little different. And your post would actually hold some weight. You won't catch me financially supporting something just to tear it down. You have to speak with your dollars. That's the only way to get your message through to these companies.

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Old 07-28-2021, 08:26 PM   #585
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A couple of you guys here are into MOTU a lot deeper than I have ever been. Originally MOTU to me was super appealing because I was.... you know... what? 5 or 6 or something when it was first a big deal? And then the movie came out and that was like a huge deal, but then.... well the movie came out and suddenly no one cared anymore. We all loved the last 10 or 15 minutes or so, but hated the rest of the movie.

That was it for me for the most part other than some occasional exposure to the 2000 or so show which I'm curious about watching.

But if you guys who know the I.P. in and out had to pick the top 10 He-Man episodes across all of the franchise iterations, what 10 episodes would make the list?
That is really tough since each series is so different in tone from one another.

Is there one series you like more than the others?
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:35 PM   #586
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That is really tough since each series is so different in tone from one another.

Is there one series you like more than the others?
Ehhhh.... I can only say that I grew up on the original series and that the last time I tried to sit through them on Netflix I couldn't even get through an episode.

But that's sort of why I'm asking for what would be a great sampling of the "cream of the crop"? Only ten episodes from across what? There's only been three iterations of He-Man, right?
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:45 PM   #587
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Ehhhh.... I can only say that I grew up on the original series and that the last time I tried to sit through them on Netflix I couldn't even get through an episode.

But that's sort of why I'm asking for what would be a great sampling of the "cream of the crop"? Only ten episodes from across what? There's only been three iterations of He-Man, right?
True but it is a ton of episodes

130 Filmation episodes

65 New Adventures of He-Man episodes

39 200X MYP episodes

10 Revelation episodes

I think I could put together a best of for each series though.

10 from filmation, 5-10 from NA He-man, and 5 from 200x
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Old 07-28-2021, 08:54 PM   #588
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Ehhhh.... I can only say that I grew up on the original series and that the last time I tried to sit through them on Netflix I couldn't even get through an episode.
I'm just gonna be blunt, if that's truly been your experience then you honestly shouldn't bother with any of it. None of it's going to impress you, let alone change your mind.

I mean, you *might* like the 200X series but I doubt it. It's more "mature" but it's much more of a "toy commercial" than the original ever was. And lots of people think it takes itself too seriously.

It's very likely that you're one of those "I like the toys but I hate everything else" type of MOTU fans. That's fine, that's actually lots of people.

But if you can't even sit through "The Problem With Power" then you just shouldn't bother with the cartoons at all, I feel. Nothing from any of the shows really comes close to that one.

Maaaybe just watch the first three episodes of the 200X series, "The Beginning" arc. You might think that's decent, but I feel pretty confident you won't like anything else.

So there's my "Top 10" recommendation. The first three episodes of 200X. Anything else is just gonna give you heartburn.
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:08 PM   #589
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Who, Ethan? Against whom, and when? Ethan is hilarious, and I've talked to him for like 15 years now. He's guilty of being a chauvinist at worst.
Not necessarily him although if I'm honest I think he is. I will say that while identifying with a particular group or movement shouldn't mean that you agree or endorse everything they say and do but if there's one overriding thing that they endorse you should really think if that's what you want people to think about you. The comicsgate movement is racist. They say they aren't against diversity either in the real world or the fictional worlds of comics - they simply want diversity done 'right'. The problem is the viciously attack every single attempt to increase diversity. No matter what it is.

On the subject of Scriver he may or not be a racist but he is definitely said sexist and a homophobic things and was very publicly ok with his one of his favourite creators being in a relationship with a 14 year old girl. If you still support him and his work after all that then that's you but it's strange (and hypocritical) that you refuse to even try the work of another creator who has said problematic things.
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:50 AM   #590
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Ehhhh.... I can only say that I grew up on the original series and that the last time I tried to sit through them on Netflix I couldn't even get through an episode
Then what place do you have complaining about anything in this franchise if you don't respect the original series? It sounds like this whole time you've been prioritising your anti-woke soapbox than anything else in here which has disrupted conversation.
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:16 AM   #591
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I mean... Devil's Advocate, but plenty of MOTU fans outright loathe the Filmation show, same as plenty of TMNT fans loathe the FW cartoon.

I love the Filmation cartoon but saying "It's not for everyone" is like saying water is wet. I recognize the complaints people have about it, it's not like they don't exist; I just feel like most people blow those things incredibly out of proportion.

...Kinda like how I feel about "Revelation", oddly enough.

I concur that it's a bit odd, to me, why any person who hates the older cartoon(s) would even care about what this one is like, but for a lot of people this series is the first time they've interacted with the brand in 35+ years and they're possibly curious about what it could be like.

Outside of that, everybody views things through their own "lens". What I've seen online so far is that for people who don't already have a strong association or affection for the MOTU brand, be it because they never had to begin with or because they're just "lapsed", to them this series serves predominantly as the latest "shots fired" in the ongoing Culture War. Without looking at it through the lens of "How does this compare to previous MOTU media?", they're left with "Is this 'woke' or not?"

Now, I don't think that's ultimately fair, to break ANYthing down to just That, and I do plenty of my own ranting about "Woke Garbage" when I feel that it's applicable, or hurts the experience, or what have you. But at the same time I think it's important to try and look at things from the perspective of how they'd play in a vacuum, removed from any larger "cultural" conversations. Like, ten years from now, people might not be arguing about what's "Woke" and what isn't, but some things will still play well and have a point. I feel this show will age well; I feel things like "The Last Jedi" or "Terminator: Dark Fate" will not.

But I do recognize - even if I'm not thrilled about it - that without a lens of previous MOTU familiarity to compare/contrast with, anyone else Right Now is more or less only left with the "cultural" angle to pick apart, or else they don't have much else to discuss.

Not everybody liked Filmation, but plenty of those people still like MOTU, or at least have a "fondness" or even a "curiosity" about it, and just don't have any other way of being part of the conversation. We're seeing a lot of that everywhere right now.

I think people who are intimately familiar with the older cartoons have the MOST right to be part of the conversation but I wouldn't say or imply that if they don't then they can't say anything at all.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. I personally think in ten years nobody's going to remember the "Woke crap" conversations and just think of this series as a more "adult-oriented" MOTU cartoon, and I think people read too much into stuff like a haircut. BUT, people can talk if they wanna, I suppose.

It's not like only FW fans talk about TMNT subjects in this f*cking cesspool, right?
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:21 AM   #592
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Not necessarily him although if I'm honest I think he is. I will say that while identifying with a particular group or movement shouldn't mean that you agree or endorse everything they say and do but if there's one overriding thing that they endorse you should really think if that's what you want people to think about you. The comicsgate movement is racist. They say they aren't against diversity either in the real world or the fictional worlds of comics - they simply want diversity done 'right'. The problem is the viciously attack every single attempt to increase diversity. No matter what it is.

On the subject of Scriver he may or not be a racist but he is definitely said sexist and a homophobic things and was very publicly ok with his one of his favourite creators being in a relationship with a 14 year old girl. If you still support him and his work after all that then that's you but it's strange (and hypocritical) that you refuse to even try the work of another creator who has said problematic things.
None of this is true. "Comicsgaters" include guys like Dale Keown (Pitt), Trent Kaniuga (Creed), Graham Nolan & Chuck Dixon (you know, the guys that created Bane and delivered like 15 years of awesome Batman comics), and more. That numbskulls on the internet go around repping Comicsgate saying dumb things is really neither here nor there. But please let me know what directly racist things Ethan said. There isn't any. And even if there was things Ethan said in jest... this Ta-Nahesi guy is 100% dead serious at every point. Not even remotely sarcastic. When he said the police and firefighters who gave their lives digging for survivors on 9/11 "weren't human" to him... this wasn't some kind of gag. He wasn't trying his hand at sarcasm. And it's not like he ever went back and said "I didn't mean that." 0 reversal.

And I believe the 14 year old you speak of is the Dave Sim (creator of Cerebus) situation. Which Ethan immediately distanced himself from the moment he had more information and left the project. So try again.

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Old 07-29-2021, 03:43 AM   #593
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And I believe the 14 year old you speak of is the Dave Sim (creator of Cerebus) situation. Which Ethan immediately distanced himself from the moment he had more information. So try again.
And with regard to THAT whole situation... and just to again play Devil's Advocate... wasn't it corroborated that Sim met the girl at 14 but didn't sleep with her until she was in her 20s? I mean, it's "weird", but... we let other people off the hook for way worse than that.

David Bowie. Jimmy Page. Lori Mattix. People still love Bowie and Led Zeppelin. But Dave Sim is a piece of sh*t? Why, exactly?

At least in Sim's case, he "allegedly" waited until the girl was like 22. Bowie and Page were f*cking Mattix when she was 13 and 14 years old, and people love those guys. It's very strange why nobody "cancels" them even though we've all known about that sh*t for decades. It's not like they ever even denied it, and it's not like we all just found out about it yesterday.

I'm not much of a Dave Sim fan, but when I heard about that whole "controversy" I'm like... "Uh, okay?" It's f*cking bananas how some people are radioactive because they did a thing, but then other people do a WAY WORSE thing and people are like "Well, we like them more, so it's okay."

Unless it was proven that he also did other, worse sh*t I'm not aware of, in which case, disregard. I only know that people hate him because of the One Thing, and to me that One Thing was more of a "Who Cares?" compared to the sh*t other people do. People we still throw parades for as if they never did any of that sh*t.

It's weird. Like what Sim did was "weird" but I think people are being hypocritically hyperbolic about it. Unless he actually did screw the chick when she was a teenager, but as far as I know, he didn't.

((Shrug)) Bit of a weird tangent for a MOTU thread.
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Old 07-29-2021, 04:33 AM   #594
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I mean... Devil's Advocate, but plenty of MOTU fans outright loathe the Filmation show, same as plenty of TMNT fans loathe the FW cartoon.
Unfortunatly yes, to the point this place probably would have been updated to cover everything else about the franchise a long time ago if the anti-FW fans had their way running it. God bless Krang for never selling out, even if those people make what's left of the forum miserable for the rest of us

It's the absolute apathy they have for the old shows that gets me...like, are people that butthurt they got conned into buying toys or something? Those shows were supposed to convey important lessons on morality, compassion, truth, etc, and they just slap them in the face for the effort using big edgy swear words and praising shows that encourage toxic behaviour and even more flawed characters. I get it if they're a moody teen or in their twenties, but some of these people are 44 for f*ck's sake, what do they want their kids to learn?
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Old 07-29-2021, 05:02 AM   #595
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I'm just going out on a limb here without trying to speak too loudly for anyone else. But I think it's more that many people look back on those shows and can appreciate the moral life lessons they impart, but just plain hate the artwork, animation, the cheeseball humor, and the fact that everything had to be so G-rated.

Like, you know me with MLP. I love FiM. I can't stand the 80s cartoon, though. I know what it was trying to be but what it IS is a piece of sh*t, even if it's well-intentioned.

Now, I definitely don't think MOTU was. And hard as I am on FW TMNT at times, I don't think that show was, either. I think those two cartoons and The Real Ghostbusters pretty much make up the Holy Trinity of 1980s cartoon shows, and underneath them you'd probably have Thundercats, G.I. Joe and Transformers. Maybe Voltron up there with those. After that, though... man, there's a lot of stuff that's objectively crap. When people say, "That era hasn't all aged well," they're not entirely wrong.

But I DO feel like MOTU and TMNT gets unfairly lumped in with the other stuff... it's definitely not QUITE as good as it was when you were 6, whether you love it or hate it. It's definitely easy to see a lot more of the scotch tape and chicken wire holding those shows together. They all had lots of issues with jerkiness, stilted writing, budget issues, errors, etc. TMNT got off the lightest because it was so late in the era that it's honestly more of a "90s cartoon", but it still had a lot of issues. I don't think they're anywhere near as offensive as some people seem to, but I think people fall into this trap of saying "Man, ALL that stuff we liked back then was crap," and even the better shows get thrown in with the less-great ones.

Now, to be blunt, if a person truly can't just overlook some of the things that make the MOTU cartoon dated and take it for what it is, I kind of think they're a bit of a joyless prick, I confess. No, it's not as polished as anything made after 1989 was, but I feel like to some degree it's like listening to a record of your favorite band's music from when they were in college, recording in their basement: "Please Lower Standards Before Listening." Because anything else wouldn't be fair to the material. There's definitely a sincerity to it that is very real, and very absent from most of the other "toy commercial" cartoons. I've tried to get into stuff like Joe and Transformers, even as a kid. Never felt it. Not that they weren't good, it's just that I never felt the "heart" I did in MOTU or TMNT. Stuff like Transformers always felt very blatantly like they were trying to sell me toys, while MOTU and TMNT were trying to teach me about life and being a good person. It hit different. Even The Real Ghostbusters was often full of little moral fables, they just weren't as blatant about it as MOTU was, with someone literally telling you what you were supposed to take away from the episode and all that.

I don't know. I don't think anyone really fails to see what those shows were trying to do, or resents it, or anything. I think some people really truly can't "go backwards" and enjoy things from before a certain time. My wife HATES watching things in black & white, for example. That's her "line". Sometimes she puts up with it, but grudgingly. So when someone looks at MOTU and says, "Man... I just can't get over the recycled animation," or "There's the same three people playing twenty different characters," or "These Dad Jokes are tiresome"... I get it. I don't agree with it, but I can kind of see what they don't like about it. I just don't feel anywhere as strongly about it, and selfishly I wish they could get over it and see the good in what's there.

BUT. Some people can't. I don't like it, but if it's how they feel it's how they feel. I don't think anyone has any issue with the show(s) "teaching kids moral lessons" or anything, though. Just that they're cheap and occasionally shoddy, production-wise. I don't care, you don't care. BUT, some people care, it is what it is.
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Old 07-29-2021, 05:27 AM   #596
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I like FIM a lot, though I can't really say I was a big superfan of it or anything, watched a lot of it in the first two seasons and still 'followed' developments, but yeah, it's arguable that one is the definitive version, I never watched the original series all that much, I have very vague memories of it.

...I did love the G1 MLP toys though

What I do like is how OG Skeletor is steadily becoming a cultural icon...just as much a meme magnet as anything from SPOP. Fans of that series, who are incredibly disrespectful and rude about the original Filmation She-Ra, absolutely love Skeletor, and that's about their only admirable trait

TF G1 is really great in it's first season, where they treat it more like a clash of forces, season two is a bit more wholesome saturday morning in comparison, but still fun. I've never been a massive toy collector, my instinct was to always watch for the stories, and those stories were fun and taught me to be a better person.

So naturally the first instinct I have on Youtube is to be the biggest ass I can possibly be in comment sections.
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:34 AM   #597
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Anybody who ain't down with Skeletor is gay in the pejorative sense.

Dude has a skull for a head. You don't like it, go f*ck your ass.

We should all be more like Skeletor.


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Old 07-29-2021, 06:43 AM   #598
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Anybody who ain't down with Skeletor is gay in the pejorative sense.

Dude has a skull for a head. You don't like it, go f*ck your ass.
Leo, we all have a skull for a head. He's just a skinless b*tch.
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Old 07-29-2021, 06:47 AM   #599
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A-durrr-hurrrr that's effin' hilarious. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEANT!

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Old 07-29-2021, 09:15 AM   #600
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I was born in the mid-80's but missed every 80's fad besides TMNT of course which I was born in the right place at the right time.

I never got into He-man, Transformers, Gi-Joe, or anything Ghostbusters outside the first two movies. It's weird...despite being born in the 80's I have nothing in common with 80's culture...I'm more of a 90's kid.

I can tell you every fad in the 90's and I watched every major show/movie/cartoon from that time, but the 80's is lost on me besides TMNT.
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