Do you believe in student loan forgiveness?

[Andrew NDB]

Because Biden is announcing $10,000 - $20,000 in student loan forgiveness for basically everybody:

https://komonews.com/news/nation-wor...epayment-pause

[mrmaczaps]

This is not loan "forgiveness". Its a debt transfer from the idiots who took useless college courses & then couldn't actually find work or get paid enough using their degree to pay their loans (and/or blow their income on sh!t they don't need) instead of paying their own bills. All these clowns wanting it using their $1000 Apple phones & drinking their over priced hot water with bugsh!t coffee... fjb. I already paid my student loans and I sure as sh!t should not be paying more taxes to cover anyone elses.

[robertfiduciary]

if you have a problem with the student loan cancellation because you already paid off your loans, just pretend its a tax cut for the rich that you also never got but mysteriously didn't complain about.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

if you have a problem with the student loan cancellation because you already paid off your loans, just pretend its a tax cut for the rich that you also never got but mysteriously didn't complain about.

Fvck off idiot.

[Roseangelo]

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChqFCTIsnok/

Biden ignores the question and implies that the only people not burdened by student loans own multi-million dollar companies. Just another example of how oblivious these politicians are to the reality that the majority of Americans live.

I paid my loans, and I also pay my taxes. I would like my $10k, please.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChqFCTIsnok/

Biden ignores the question and implies that the only people not burdened by student loans own multi-million dollar companies. Just another example of how oblivious these politicians are to the reality that the majority of Americans live.

I paid my loans, and I also pay my taxes. I would like my $10k, please.

Same here. Heck, I'm on disability four years now (seven counting the time I didn't have any help) & I can't even get rent assistance or food stamps [which the state says I've been using except I'm not...] I've called a few times and always get told "we will look into that & get back to you".... They haven't... I don't expect them to either. Lol

[robertfiduciary]

Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase.

90 PERCENT of the benefits of Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan go to those making under $75,000. These are the working class Americans that Republicans are mad are getting some relief.

And, under President Biden, this year's federal budget deficit is expected to decline by $1.7 trillion — the SINGLE LARGEST DECLINE in American history.

But, please. Swear at me all you want. Proveable facts don't really care about your emotions. And neither do I .

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase.

90 PERCENT of the benefits of Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan go to those making under $75,000. These are the working class Americans that Republicans are mad are getting some relief.

And, under President Biden, this year's federal budget deficit is expected to decline by $1.7 trillion — the SINGLE LARGEST DECLINE in American history.

But, please. Swear at me all you want. Proveable facts don't really care about your emotions. And neither do I .

Clown. Tax payers will now foot the bill for rich, elites... the top 60% of borrowers who literally just refuse to pay their bills. This will absolutely not help poor people or the middle class. Basic economics. This is fvcking terrible for everyone. Idiot.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

Biden isn’t just forgiving a set amount of debt. He is also enacting a new policy that ends excess interest on student loans—as long as a borrower pays their minimum monthly payment (now capped at only 5% of their income), their balance will no longer increase.

90 PERCENT of the benefits of Biden’s student loan forgiveness plan go to those making under $75,000. These are the working class Americans that Republicans are mad are getting some relief.

And, under President Biden, this year's federal budget deficit is expected to decline by $1.7 trillion — the SINGLE LARGEST DECLINE in American history.

But, please. Swear at me all you want. Proveable facts don't really care about your emotions. And neither do I .

A good bit of the people who are in debt because of these loans....arent working to begin with. So what working class are you talking about?

[robertfiduciary]

Just a quick Biden "highlight reel:"

-$10k in student loan debt eliminated
-Inflation Reduction Act (biggest climate bill in history)
-American Rescue Plan
-Infrastructure package
-Gun reform package
-CHIPS
-PACT
-Most jobs ever
-Lowest unemployment in 50 years
-al Qaeda leader killed

Also, I'm not a betting man, but if I were I would be willing to wager I've taken more college (and Grad School) economics courses than you have.

Which doesn't prove anything, sure.

But I guarantee these policy changes of President Biden's will be more of a net positive then a net negative (especially for families struggling with student loans).

And if you have a minute (since I can't seem to find it! Weird...), maybe you could direct me to the message board thread where you're just so full of anger and rage about the 1.9 TRILLION (of OUR MONEY) the previous administration gave to it's wealthy donors in the form of tax breaks?

Just, like, a link or something. Something to show how *equally* enraged you were then. I mean, I'm sure it happened. I'm sure you were BIG MAD then. Right?

Loving that Republicans want to run in 2022 on "Child victims of rape must have their rapist's baby." And "We must stop Democrats before they give out more education debt relief!"

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

Clown. Tax payers will now foot the bill for rich, elites... the top 60% of borrowers who literally just refuse to pay their bills. This will absolutely not help poor people or the middle class. Basic economics. This is fvcking terrible for everyone. Idiot.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

Just a quick Biden "highlight reel:"

-$10k in student loan debt eliminated [doesn't help the poor]
-Inflation Reduction Act (biggest climate bill in history) [can't pay our way into fixing a problem that does not exist]
-American Rescue Plan [higher taxes for the poor]
-Infrastructure package [payouts to bigwig democrats/doesn't help poor people]
-Gun reform package [infringements, fvck you]
-CHIPS
-PACT
-Most jobs ever [lol, people going back to work post flu does not count]
-Lowest unemployment in 50 years [lol]
-al Qaeda leader killed [he died years ago, ffs]

Also, I'm not a betting man, but if I were I would be willing to wager I've taken more college (and Grad School) economics courses than you have. [Explains why you're fvcking dumb. Indoctrinated idiot.]

Which doesn't prove anything, sure.

But I guarantee these policy changes of President Biden's will be more of a net positive then a net negative (especially for families struggling with student loans).

And if you have a minute (since I can't seem to find it! Weird...), maybe you could direct me to the message board thread where you're just so full of anger and rage about the 1.9 TRILLION (of OUR MONEY) the previous administration gave to it's wealthy donors in the form of tax breaks?

Just, like, a link or something. Something to show how *equally* enraged you were then. I mean, I'm sure it happened. I'm sure you were BIG MAD then. Right?

Some of that is treason. None of that is "good". Joe isn't in charge, he has dementia and he did not win the election. I don't think tax payers should pay for anyone elses bills. No loans. No bail outs for banks or auto industries or anything. Stick with the present, commie. We aren't talking yesterday. We're talking today. Pay your own fvcking debts. Period.

[Vegita-San]

this board isn't a democratic friendly one, as we see through all the smoke and mirrors. biden's accomplished nothing but putting us further in debt, making war on the middle class, and spending money we don't have by the trillions.

I hop ewe survive the next two years.

And I don't want my taxes raised to pay for some dickweeds gender studies course.

[robertfiduciary]

I may have just mentioned that American currently has the LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE it's had in the last 50 years.

So, where are these people who "aren't working to begin with?"

Are they real? Do you have names? Addresses? Phone numbers? Email addresses?

I have a few journalist pals who would surely like to talk to them. If they exist.

Which I don't think they do!

Originally Posted by The Deadman

A good bit of the people who are in debt because of these loans....arent working to begin with. So what working class are you talking about?

[Leo656]

I'm of two minds about the issue ONLY because there is absolutely NO reason whatsoever that college needs to be so expensive. Especially not right now when literally every single thing you can learn in a college classroom, you can learn on the internet for free. Ostensibly, tuition rates should be going Down, not Up, the same way the cost of books and VHS tapes and DVDs all went down dramatically once the internet killed the need for any of those things to exist in physical form. You can't in good conscience charge a premium for things people can just as well get for free. It's insanely predatory, and it basically ensures that nobody who completes college nowadays can have a comfortable lifestyle until they're pushing 50, because they're going to spend their 20s struggling to get established and then their 30s and 40s working to pay off their debts. Tuition rates have skyrocketed over the past few decades, but wages have not increased alongside that, and that's where it becomes a huge issue.

I personally have a problem with the expectation that a person needs to go into debt for essentially their entire adult life just to have a shot at "a good career". The only reason college is so expensive is because they have to buy and maintain stadiums and stuff for the sports teams, and that's nonsense. Someone who just wants to be an engineer shouldn't have to pay half a million dollars because the football team wants new uniforms. If college sports didn't exist, then college would cost hardly anything, and that's indisputable.

HOWEVER... all that being said, going to college and assuming the debt that goes with it is kind of like buying a form of insurance, you're gambling on your future but in essence you're paying a premium to ensure you're "protected". There's no guarantees but having the piece of paper gives you a slight advantage in obtaining financial security. But so many variables rest upon the end-user; what's their major and hopeful chosen field? As has been said, if you're going to college for Music Theory or Gender Studies then that should be 100% on you, you can't expect to do anything but starve with those kinds of degrees and so other people shouldn't be on the hook for anyone who chooses to pursue a worthless degree. At some point, someone needs to sit a young adult down and explain to them in no uncertain terms that their "dreams" aren't going to help them eat, and make sure that they know if they waste their time and money on something with no upside then they can't expect "forgiveness", because the world doesn't work that way. Likewise, even someone who pursues a much more practical career like doctor or lawyer - basically, the only two things anyone should bother going to college for because those are as close to "guaranteed income for life" as it gets - could very well screw it up for themselves post-graduation by botching the follow-through, and that shouldn't be anyone's fault but theirs, either.

And then there's the fact that giving One Person a handout is disrespecting Another Person who doesn't get one. There's no way that every person's student loan debts will be "forgiven" and so doing it for even one person is, to my thinking, rather unfair and unethical. It rewards people who screwed up or were lazy while only punishing those who did everything "the right way". Maybe if every living person in the U.S. who ever went to college for any reason got a check for twenty grand, that'd be a different story, but that's not what's gonna happen.

I'm of the mind that by going to college at all, you assume certain risks and those risks are predominantly on You. Part of why I never went was because I simply had no money, I mean around the time I graduated high school we were borderline destitute, and my guidance counselors pretty much said straight-out that I had no options for college outside maybe taking some classes at a Community College; even if I applied for loans or financial aid, I'd never get them because it was plainly clear that I'd never, ever be in any position to pay them back. And for my own part, I knew full well I'd never be in any position to pay any loans back, and I didn't much feel like spending the rest of my life paying them back anyway. So I just didn't bother going to college. This did hurt me because I was forced to only do rather low-end sh*t that didn't pay well, but the fact is I'd be taking home almost the exact same amount anyways after paying back any hypothetical loans, so to me it just seemed like breaking even. If I was only ever going to take home less than 40 grand a year, I decided I'd rather do that without having a huge monthly bill hanging over my head for my entire adult life.

A person should be realistic about themselves, their prospects, and their circumstances. The fact is, most of my friends who never went to college are doing a lot better and making as much if not more money than the ones who did go to college. The ones who went to a vocational or trade school, they put a lot more hours in at their job and some of those jobs are a lot more physically difficult, but they generally report a higher level of life satisfaction. One of the most stable guys I know owns his own plumbing business; doesn't sound very glamorous and most people would not choose it, in fact anyone with a college degree would discourage and disparage such a career out loud, but the fact is the guy still owns his own business, is above his debts and takes great care of his wife and kids, while some of our friends with "better" jobs are STILL paying off their debts and loans from almost 20 years ago.

Frankly, I think college is mostly a scam and that most people who go only learn how to make connections and experiment with drugs and casual sex without their parents hawking them. That's the only thing anyone I know remembers from their college experience, all the coke they did and all the times they narrowly avoided getting an STD, plus the one or two people they met who did them a favor after graduation and helped them get a job they weren't qualified for. I don't think too many people actually "need" college anymore, I mean honestly only doctors really should have to go, nothing else is worth the investment or even requires that much "education" in the first place. Tuition rates are just another form of societal gatekeeping, making sure the poor people stay poor by saddling them with debt they'll be paying back until they're dead. I think that's horribly predatory and unfair.

BUT, these are the choices we make, and we are supposed to be beholden to those choices as well as their consequences. If a person chooses to go into debt to attend college, that's their decision and I don't think they should be rewarded for not being able to hack it later on.

Rather than forgiving student loans, what should rather happen is college needn't be so goddamn expensive across the board. THAT would actually do some good. But they "need" new stadiums every few years, so that's never gonna happen. It's f*cked up, but them's the breaks. You choose to go to college, you implicitly accept that you're gonna be paying them back for the rest of your life so the football team can have new helmets. It's dumb, it's unfair, it's pretty much just plain wrong... but that's life. They could just as well go to DeVry. We all make choices.

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

this board isn't a democratic friendly one, as we see through all the smoke and mirrors. biden's accomplished nothing but putting us further in debt, making war on the middle class, and spending money we don't have by the trillions.

I hop ewe survive the next two years.

And I don't want my taxes raised to pay for some dickweeds gender studies course.

Democrats aren't friendly people... if they are people. They're racists, pedophiles & criminals. Biden is a disgrace but they'd all suck his junk if he said he would give them something free for it... they're slaves to the clowns in power. Govern them harder Papa Government.

We've sent BILLIONS to a fake war in Ukraine for a tyrant/puppet leader who has made it illegal to be against him and the country hates the lgbt folks... its illegal there.

Gas is still over $2 a gallon more than it should be or needs to be. Our oil reserves are nearly gone... to China & Ukraine. Everything Biden is doing right now, is to BUY votes. If the numbers for democrats were better, this "loan forgiveness" would not be happening... and don't spend your "savings" just yet because the Supreme Courts not going to allow this to stand (& it fvcking shouldn't).

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'm of two minds about the issue ONLY because there is absolutely NO reason whatsoever that college needs to be so expensive. Especially not right now when literally every single thing you can learn in a college classroom, you can learn on the internet for free. Ostensibly, tuition rates should be going Down, not Up, the same way the cost of books and VHS tapes and DVDs all went down dramatically once the internet killed the need for any of those things to exist in physical form. You can't in good conscience charge a premium for things people can just as well get for free. It's insanely predatory, and it basically ensures that nobody who completes college nowadays can have a comfortable lifestyle until they're pushing 50, because they're going to spend their 20s struggling to get established and then their 30s and 40s working to pay off their debts. Tuition rates have skyrocketed over the past few decades, but wages have not increased alongside that, and that's where it becomes a huge issue.

I personally have a problem with the expectation that a person needs to go into debt for essentially their entire adult life just to have a shot at "a good career". The only reason college is so expensive is because they have to buy and maintain stadiums and stuff for the sports teams, and that's nonsense. Someone who just wants to be an engineer shouldn't have to pay half a million dollars because the football team wants new uniforms. If college sports didn't exist, then college would cost hardly anything, and that's indisputable.

HOWEVER... all that being said, going to college and assuming the debt that goes with it is kind of like buying a form of insurance, you're gambling on your future but in essence you're paying a premium to ensure you're "protected". There's no guarantees but having the piece of paper gives you a slight advantage in obtaining financial security. But so many variables rest upon the end-user; what's their major and hopeful chosen field? As has been said, if you're going to college for Music Theory or Gender Studies then that should be 100% on you, you can't expect to do anything but starve with those kinds of degrees and so other people shouldn't be on the hook for anyone who chooses to pursue a worthless degree. At some point, someone needs to sit a young adult down and explain to them in no uncertain terms that their "dreams" aren't going to help them eat, and make sure that they know if they waste their time and money on something with no upside then they can't expect "forgiveness", because the world doesn't work that way. Likewise, even someone who pursues a much more practical career like doctor or lawyer - basically, the only two things anyone should bother going to college for because those are as close to "guaranteed income for life" as it gets - could very well screw it up for themselves post-graduation by botching the follow-through, and that shouldn't be anyone's fault but theirs, either.

And then there's the fact that giving One Person a handout is disrespecting Another Person who doesn't get one. There's no way that every person's student loan debts will be "forgiven" and so doing it for even one person is, to my thinking, rather unfair and unethical. It rewards people who screwed up or were lazy while only punishing those who did everything "the right way". Maybe if every living person in the U.S. who ever went to college for any reason got a check for twenty grand, that'd be a different story, but that's not what's gonna happen.

I'm of the mind that by going to college at all, you assume certain risks and those risks are predominantly on You. Part of why I never went was because I simply had no money, I mean around the time I graduated high school we were borderline destitute, and my guidance counselors pretty much said straight-out that I had no options for college outside maybe taking some classes at a Community College; even if I applied for loans or financial aid, I'd never get them because it was plainly clear that I'd never, ever be in any position to pay them back. And for my own part, I knew full well I'd never be in any position to pay any loans back, and I didn't much feel like spending the rest of my life paying them back anyway. So I just didn't bother going to college. This did hurt me because I was forced to only do rather low-end sh*t that didn't pay well, but the fact is I'd be taking home almost the exact same amount anyways after paying back any hypothetical loans, so to me it just seemed like breaking even. If I was only ever going to take home less than 40 grand a year, I decided I'd rather do that without having a huge monthly bill hanging over my head for my entire adult life.

A person should be realistic about themselves, their prospects, and their circumstances. The fact is, most of my friends who never went to college are doing a lot better and making as much if not more money than the ones who did go to college. The ones who went to a vocational or trade school, they put a lot more hours in at their job and some of those jobs are a lot more physically difficult, but they generally report a higher level of life satisfaction. One of the most stable guys I know owns his own plumbing business; doesn't sound very glamorous and most people would not choose it, in fact anyone with a college degree would discourage and disparage such a career out loud, but the fact is the guy still owns his own business, is above his debts and takes great care of his wife and kids, while some of our friends with "better" jobs are STILL paying off their debts and loans from almost 20 years ago.

Frankly, I think college is mostly a scam and that most people who go only learn how to make connections and experiment with drugs and casual sex without their parents hawking them. That's the only thing anyone I know remembers from their college experience, all the coke they did and all the times they narrowly avoided getting an STD, plus the one or two people they met who did them a favor after graduation and helped them get a job they weren't qualified for. I don't think too many people actually "need" college anymore, I mean honestly only doctors really should have to go, nothing else is worth the investment or even requires that much "education" in the first place. Tuition rates are just another form of societal gatekeeping, making sure the poor people stay poor by saddling them with debt they'll be paying back until they're dead. I think that's horribly predatory and unfair.

BUT, these are the choices we make, and we are supposed to be beholden to those choices as well as their consequences. If a person chooses to go into debt to attend college, that's their decision and I don't think they should be rewarded for not being able to hack it later on.

Rather than forgiving student loans, what should rather happen is college needn't be so goddamn expensive across the board. THAT would actually do some good. But they "need" new stadiums every few years, so that's never gonna happen. It's f*cked up, but them's the breaks. You choose to go to college, you implicitly accept that you're gonna be paying them back for the rest of your life so the football team can have new helmets. It's dumb, it's unfair, it's pretty much just plain wrong... but that's life. They could just as well go to DeVry. We all make choices.

One of the few things we mostly agree on... college became expensive when the federal Government took over student loans back whenever that was... 80s or early 90s maybe. I know rates weren't terrible when I went to a local community college but that same place is 4 or 5 times now more expensive. And they don't teach anymore and what they do talk about is irrelevant to real life.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by robertfiduciary

I may have just mentioned that American currently has the LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE it's had in the last 50 years.

So, where are these people who "aren't working to begin with?"

Are they real? Do you have names? Addresses? Phone numbers? Email addresses?

I have a few journalist pals who would surely like to talk to them. If they exist.

Which I don't think they do!

Do you? Probably not.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by mrmaczaps

I don't think tax payers should pay for anyone elses bills.

I'm simply obligated to point out that that is the entire point of having taxes in the first place.

Now frankly, I'm a pretty firm believer that "All Taxation Is Theft", because nobody ever ASKED me if I wanted to contribute to "society's needs", and if they did ask I'd say "No", because I consider myself to be more "in need" than the next person, and I'm also just plain pretty selfish.

HOWEVER. By definition the very purpose of taxes is so "tax payers can pay for someone else's bills." And since most people are exactly like me and only contribute to the greater good when forced at proverbial gunpoint, it is what it is. People have to be "forced" to pay taxes because if it were voluntary then nobody would, and without the monies provided via tax collection then society itself would completely shut down. Even a Scrooge like me understands and accepts that even though I don't like it.

So unless you wanna go completely off the grid and live off the land like a lumberjack, you gotta just accept that by paying taxes at all you're paying someone else's bills. That's entirely how it works.

Not to be a dick but nobody asked the taxpayers in your state if they'd be fine paying into your disability claim, either, and I'm sure if they had been asked most people would say "No, I don't even know that guy". But I'm quite sure that you're grateful for the services provided by those peoples' tax dollars, all the same.

Just saying. I abhor taxes as a rule but they're a necessary evil and you don't get to pick and choose where the money goes, that isn't how it works.

[Vegita-San]

LOL ' lowest unemployment'....


a little suspicious thing called covid had a hand in that. How about all the businesses that biden and fraudci put out of business because of that thing?

[Leo656]

I remember when not long ago someone publicly said "unemployment is no longer an issue because so many people have two or even three jobs."

Like, way to deflect from the larger point, that being that nobody should HAVE to work two or three jobs but it's the only way to even keep your head above water anymore.

"Inflation" hits everything except wages, which typically stay the same while everything else goes up. And nobody with any power to affect or correct ever wants to address the root causes. "Inflation" is manmade, just like wage stagnation. Why do things suddenly cost more? Because some rich c*cksucker decides so, so they can improve their bottom line and take home more. Why don't people earn more money alongside rising those costs? Because again, some rich c*cksucker says so.

ALL of these other things are just deflection and distraction.