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Old 12-12-2015, 03:08 PM   #61
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
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Alright alright shaddap, you know I haven't cuz I'm broke.

And frankly everything I've heard and seen of New 52 Batman is just as spotty and inconsistent as everything else, so yeah, I think my "book" on that character closed at the same time as Superman's. Right from Joker cutting his face off, and Damien getting a huge push, I'm like "Yeah, this already sucks really bad" and haven't been back. I read *about* the stories being published in the comics and, I gotta say... those ideas don't translate well as prose descriptions. Maybe something's lost in the translation but everything "sounds" stupid as hell whenever I read a synopsis or review.

1986 - 2011. That's the DCU. Anything else, I completely Do Not Care.
Court of Owls is a pretty cool concept, as is the Death of the Family and Endgame.

Never bothered reading Zero Year with Riddler, 'cause I'm DONE with Batman origins.

Bloom is pretty cool, like a mix between Scarecrow, Poison Ivy, and Slender Man. RoboGordonBats is the dumbest thing EVER though. Yes, dumber than Superboy Prime punching the multiverse or whatever the hell that was...
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:08 PM   #62
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Yes, dumber than Superboy Prime punching the multiverse or whatever the hell that was...
Aw man, I almost forgot about that.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:12 PM   #63
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Aw man, I almost forgot about that.
And then I brought it back. Because I'm a sadist and I want everyone to suffer with me.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:14 PM   #64
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Superboy Prime punching time was kinda dumb but at least it "sorta" made sense in context, since DC had always played up the "walls" or barriers between universes and all that that kept all the worlds and parallel dimensions separate. It almost makes sense that Prime punching what had to have been basically just another wall between dimensions would have a ripple effect of some kind.

"Almost". It makes exactly as much sense as everything else in comic books when they have to do a retcon. As in, "It doesn't, but we gotta explain this sh*t one way or the other!" I'unno, it's acceptable.

Frankly, even though it's dumb, I'm sick of hearing about it because Grant Morrison writes WAY dumber sh*t than that and he's everybody's hero.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:17 PM   #65
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Superboy Prime punching time was kinda dumb but at least it "sorta" made sense in context, since DC had always played up the "walls" or barriers between universes and all that that kept all the worlds and parallel dimensions separate. It almost makes sense that Prime punching what had to have been basically just another wall between dimensions would have a ripple effect of some kind.

"Almost". It makes exactly as much sense as everything else in comic books when they have to do a retcon. As in, "It doesn't, but we gotta explain this sh*t one way or the other!" I'unno, it's acceptable.

Frankly, even though it's dumb, I'm sick of hearing about it because Grant Morrison writes WAY dumber sh*t than that and he's everybody's hero.
I'll give you that. I just brought it up because in context, that's how Jason Todd was brought back the first time. I much prefer his modern retelling resurrections.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:32 PM   #66
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What is it now, they just pushed him into a Lazarus Pit? Just curious.

One thing I really liked during the "Jason is f*cking DEAD and he's never coming back" era, was they went out of their way to prove it. They did a story once where in a flashback to shortly after Jason died, Alfred (I think) wondered out loud if that was possible, to resurrect Jason in a Lazarus Pit, and Bruce showed him Jason's corpse, which was ALL kinds'a f*cked up by the bomb and the fact that his body wasn't taken care of properly since they were in Ethiopia and Jason's corpse had already horribly decomposed, plus he would have had irreversable brain damage from the crowbar to the skull, so they were pretty much beating the point home, "He's TOO DEAD to even use the Lazarus Pit. Okay? Get it? HE'S NEVER COMING BACK. Swear to GOD, he's dead, we promise."

That's a big reason why he never should have come back, they covered ALL the bases to make sure it was impossible, then they did it anyway. That's the WORST part of the Superboy Prime Punch resurrection: It wasn't bad because it was dumb, it was bad because it was a blatant cheat to bring back a character nobody wanted back, and that they had gone to great lengths to show COULDN'T be brought back under any circumstances anyway.

But see, it originally wasn't supposed to be the real Jason, just an alternate-Earth one that slipped through the cracks in the build-up to Infinite Crisis. That was supposed to be the big reveal, that the "real" Jason was still dead, but that there was all kinds of shenanigans going on on account of Alex Luthor's tinkering with parallel Earths, and the Red Hood Jason was just a doppelganger. Should've kept it that way. F*ckin' Judd Winick.

There was a time, briefly, where I believed they were gonna do the Big Story that finally justified bringing Jason back. They never did, so f*ck that guy. I don't care HOW they say he came back to life, that's just plain Epic Fail, and f*ck 'em in the ear for tryin'.
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Old 12-12-2015, 04:40 PM   #67
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What is it now, they just pushed him into a Lazarus Pit? Just curious.

One thing I really liked during the "Jason is f*cking DEAD and he's never coming back" era, was they went out of their way to prove it. They did a story once where in a flashback to shortly after Jason died, Alfred (I think) wondered out loud if that was possible, to resurrect Jason in a Lazarus Pit, and Bruce showed him Jason's corpse, which was ALL kinds'a f*cked up by the bomb and the fact that his body wasn't taken care of properly since they were in Ethiopia and Jason's corpse had already horribly decomposed, plus he would have had irreversable brain damage from the crowbar to the skull, so they were pretty much beating the point home, "He's TOO DEAD to even use the Lazarus Pit. Okay? Get it? HE'S NEVER COMING BACK. Swear to GOD, he's dead, we promise."

That's a big reason why he never should have come back, they covered ALL the bases to make sure it was impossible, then they did it anyway. That's the WORST part of the Superboy Prime Punch resurrection: It wasn't bad because it was dumb, it was bad because it was a blatant cheat to bring back a character nobody wanted back, and that they had gone to great lengths to show COULDN'T be brought back under any circumstances anyway.

But see, it originally wasn't supposed to be the real Jason, just an alternate-Earth one that slipped through the cracks in the build-up to Infinite Crisis. That was supposed to be the big reveal, that the "real" Jason was still dead, but that there was all kinds of shenanigans going on on account of Alex Luthor's tinkering with parallel Earths, and the Red Hood Jason was just a doppelganger. Should've kept it that way. F*ckin' Judd Winick.

There was a time, briefly, where I believed they were gonna do the Big Story that finally justified bringing Jason back. They never did, so f*ck that guy. I don't care HOW they say he came back to life, that's just plain Epic Fail, and f*ck 'em in the ear for tryin'.
Wow, I didn't know half of that! Pretty cool stuff!
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Old 12-13-2015, 04:11 AM   #68
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I also find, that for those who for some reason have some kind of affection for Jason Todd... reading "Countdown (To Final Crisis)" has a way of curing that.

Everyone in that horrible book was an insufferable tw@t but he was the MOST insufferable of all. Except maybe Superman Prime, but that's stiff competition.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:30 PM   #69
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So... it turns out it's a Trump thing?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...OpfEkavLv_5kUE
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:40 PM   #70
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So... it turns out it's a Trump thing?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...OpfEkavLv_5kUE
It's a lot of things. Messy.

But I really enjoyed it. Frank Miller will always be a master of comicbook storytelling and poetry, so even though the story is incoherent, the journey is pleasant because the level of craft is exceptional.

I've learned I'm just not really in touch with the modern comicbook community though. The industry praises Scott Snyder's "The Batman Who Laughs" and rips stuff like Frank Miller's recent work to shreds.
That's all well and good - to each their own, but I've consistently been at the opposite end of the spectrum, only crossing paths when it comes to the universal praise of creators like Alan Moore, Morrison, Gaiman, etc. You know, the undeniable greats.

Anyways, regarding "The Golden Child", I enjoyed every page of it. Trump is quite clearly parodied and demonized, but it's really not the focus of the experience, if that makes sense.
I found it refreshing the way that Frank marches to the pace of his own drum. He doesn't waste time with boundless exposition or transitional pieces. He cuts straight to the fun stuff. Elements that go unexplained deepen the mystery - I found myself happy with the fact that I don't know for certain where this new iteration of Joker came from - Clone? Impostor? Things are implied but we aren't burdened with a backstory. "Joker never dies!" - Love it.

There's a chaotic poetry there which fits with my sensibilities, over the long-winded, exposition-heavy comics that are typically praised these days.

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Old 12-13-2019, 01:56 PM   #71
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Anyways, regarding "The Golden Child", I enjoyed every page of it. Trump is quite clearly parodied and demonized, but it's really not the focus of the experience, if that makes sense.
I read over it. No, at its core is a big post-Trump wish fulfillment. Basically the theme is that people who vote for Trump are mindless (it tells us this) and that if people could just be made to "think for themselves," then everyone will emerge from some kind of darkness. The last page, everyone is "woke" now, ready to take out Darkseid, who engineers the election. They even made sure and add Greta Thunberg as one of the protesters there.
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:12 PM   #72
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I read over it. No, at its core is a big post-Trump wish fulfillment. Basically the theme is that people who vote for Trump are mindless (it tells us this) and that if people could just be made to "think for themselves," then everyone will emerge from some kind of darkness. The last page, everyone is "woke" now, ready to take out Darkseid, who engineers the election. They even made sure and add Greta Thunberg as one of the protesters there.
Okay, fair enough. I can't argue any of that. It honestly didn't feel relevant to my experience though. Like I said, the story is such a tornado, that to me, it really just became about the craft, the poetry of the storytelling, and not so much the subject matter itself.

Sorry if that sounds like a cop-out, but that was just my agenda-less experience.

But truly, what is most interesting, is how much rejection this work faces. I don't mean to pick on Scott Snyder - he seems like a great guy, and is quite successful - but it's so hard for me to understand the constant praise and adoration his work gets in comparison to someone like Frank. I just find most of Snyder's stories to be - forgive me - utter dog ****. Snyder's stories are absolutely loaded with exposition and "pseudo-science babble" in ways that do not reward you. I mean, it's crazy that he does these hour long interviews explaining the meaning of his work, when you consider how much handholding the work already does itself.

Meanwhile Frank's works are poetry in motion. Even when the content is questionable, the layouts are dynamic, the dialogue is moving, the narration is powerful. All that, while he is still trying to push the medium in new directions - this isn't your typical comic. We all know the truth of subjectivity, but sometimes it can be harder to digest than others.

So, I'm curious, politics aside, what do you think of this book? Are you able to separate the two in your mind?

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