NECA: the be-all and end-all for ‘87 toon TMNT?

[TurtleManiac]

Do you think the NECA ‘87 toon TMNT line is as good as it’s ever gonna get?

The 4 turtles themselves I think they came out pretty much perfect, but I have a dilemma with collecting this whole line as alot of the main characters have some kind of inaccuracies on them in what’s supposed to be a toon accurate line. Mostly due to NECA using old parts and not making all new dedicated sculpts. Some examples:

Shredder: re-used parts from the Mirage comics Shredder, mainly the armor. Missing straps on the leg armor and arm guards, and the recycled arms and armor doesn’t quite match the show. Also the way they did the re-used loin cloth was weird, painting part of it black to look like it’s his pants. I had high hopes for this line, but when they teased toon Shredder for SDCC, I could already see he was missing the leg armor straps and that this figure was not gonna be 100% toon accurate. If only they dedicated an all new sculpt instead of re-using parts.

Foot Soldier: much like Shredder, re-used parts from the Mirage comics Foot Soldier so it’s not a dedicated new sculpt based on the actual cartoon. To me both Shredder and Foot Soldier look a bit too thin for the line.

Bebop&Rocksteady: Too tall, I know they are mutants but the figures both use the same generic base body as Leatherhead and Triceraton, thus making them huge figures that tower over Shredder, while in the cartoon Shredder is actually taller than them.

April O’Neil: the proportions on this figure just look off, like the head and body don’t scale well and she is too short next to the turtles.

Slash: uses the same base body as the turtles but he should actually be a bit taller and bulkier. The shell pattern is wrong, front and back.

Don’t get me wrong the line is still fantastic and these are great figures. Most people probably won’t notice or care about the small things they got wrong or the scale being slightly off. That said, taking into consideration the cost of these figures, how hard they are for me to find in stores and the fact some of the rarer ones will only be available at Ebay prices, I just don’t feel too motivated in collecting this whole line unless they got all the characters 100% toon accurate and to scale. But it’s hard to think of another company or even NECA re-doing some of the characters that were rushed out and re-used parts. Mainly Shredder, being the main villain to have him rushed for a comic con and not be screen accurate was a huge let down. This is why I haven’t collected more of the line and just stuck with customizing vintage figures.

Then again if this is as good as it’s ever gonna get for official licensed toon TMNT figures, I don’t wanna miss out and they all become harder to get. So far I’ve only got the 8-pack from SDCC, Bebop&Rocksteady, and Metalhead. But I’ve been hesitant on investing anymore into this line for those reasons I’ve stated. Ironically some of the newer figures they are making seem to have more effort and unique dedicated toon sculpts compared to figures like Shredder and Slash with all those recycled parts.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

Do you think the NECA ‘87 toon TMNT line is as good as it’s ever gonna get?

Yes.

Unless Hot Toys decided to do 1990 figures, I can't think of a company doing a more faithful figure representation.

[mikey see]

Agreed, I don't see any other company going this deep into the show. The line isn't perfect but it's close enough that I can't imagine a company willing to risk diving in. Any competitors would have to significantly improve on what we've already got to get enough people to jump in to make it worth it from a business standpoint. I'm sure we'll get better representations of the FW turtles and main villains in the future. But faithful recreations of the... what, like 75ish figures we've got so far? I say no way.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

Do you think the NECA ‘87 toon TMNT line is as good as it’s ever gonna get?

The 4 turtles themselves I think they came out pretty much perfect, but I have a dilemma with collecting this whole line as alot of the main characters have some kind of inaccuracies on them in what’s supposed to be a toon accurate line. Mostly due to NECA using old parts and not making all new dedicated sculpts. Some examples:

Shredder: re-used parts from the Mirage comics Shredder, mainly the armor. Missing straps on the leg armor and arm guards, and the recycled arms and armor doesn’t quite match the show. Also the way they did the re-used loin cloth was weird, painting part of it black to look like it’s his pants. I had high hopes for this line, but when they teased toon Shredder for SDCC, I could already see he was missing the leg armor straps and that this figure was not gonna be 100% toon accurate. If only they dedicated an all new sculpt instead of re-using parts.

Foot Soldier: much like Shredder, re-used parts from the Mirage comics Foot Soldier so it’s not a dedicated new sculpt based on the actual cartoon. To me both Shredder and Foot Soldier look a bit too thin for the line.

Bebop&Rocksteady: Too tall, I know they are mutants but the figures both use the same generic base body as Leatherhead and Triceraton, thus making them huge figures that tower over Shredder, while in the cartoon Shredder is actually taller than them.

April O’Neil: the proportions on this figure just look off, like the head and body don’t scale well and she is too short next to the turtles.

Slash: uses the same base body as the turtles but he should actually be a bit taller and bulkier. The shell pattern is wrong, front and back.

Don’t get me wrong the line is still fantastic and these are great figures. Most people probably won’t notice or care about the small things they got wrong or the scale being slightly off. That said, taking into consideration the cost of these figures, how hard they are for me to find in stores and the fact some of the rarer ones will only be available at Ebay prices, I just don’t feel too motivated in collecting this whole line unless they got all the characters 100% toon accurate and to scale. But it’s hard to think of another company or even NECA re-doing some of the characters that were rushed out and re-used parts. Mainly Shredder, being the main villain to have him rushed for a comic con and not be screen accurate was a huge let down. This is why I haven’t collected more of the line and just stuck with customizing vintage figures.

Nobody is going to touch NECA. They will not be beat. This line will have the definitive FW interpretations.

As far as the characters that you've mentioned, it's very likely that there will be
an Ultimate April O' Neil Expressions Pack with multiple head sculpts and mutant exchange parts, an Ultimate Shredder (with more accurate proportions, toon accuracy, alternate unmasked head, perhaps packed in with his mom), Ultimate Slash (Trevor Zammit mentioned how he was displeased with the proportions for Slash). Also, Casey may be reissued or updated.

It's unlikely that Foot Soldier or B&R will be updated. However, Trevor Zammit did mention something about a battle damage Foot Soldier in one of his interviews, so perhaps, a toon accurate sculpt is in the works.

Generally, towards the end of a toy line, some of the more iconic characters are revisited. For DC Collectibles BTAS figures, the sculpts of Batman, Joker and Robin were updated with improved cel shading, and Catwoman was updated with an unmasked Selina Kyle sculpt.

[Lordmylar06]

As far as the look of the figures, nobody is going to touch the accuracy that NECA has set the bar on. There are some mistakes they've made on sculpt and proportions but for the actual cartoon look and feel they've nailed it. I would like to see some mistakes corrected on proportions for some figures though. April's proportions are way off and as someone stated just above Trevor wasn't happy with Slash's proportions. Even if they don't address just those 2 issues I think this is still the best we'll see for an original cartoon line.

[IMJ]

There are always ways to re-release a toyline or improve something or add a headsculpt, etc. So in the "Cashgrab department" it can be done - especially if TMNT ever kicks the 5" or 6" scales.

But I think that for most of us here NECA is likely the last hurrah for TMNT '87 for a few reasons. On the negative side many of us are so dug-in that this is it - I mean let's face it, at this point anyone who has followed the line from the beginning has incurred something like a $4,000 dollar bill picking up what has been released so far. On the positive side, the completion factor is big given that this line truly represents things that we saw appear on screen - even moreso when we get deeper-cut characters like Bugman or REX.

So yeah I think this is it - most of us probably won't want to do the financial deep-dive into this again and the line is pretty encompassing in a way that the FW show has never seen before.

[AquaParade]

The Neca toon figures look great but I actually feel they could have been more accurate to the cartoon.

[TurtleManiac]

I appreciate everyones input. I’m probably gonna just go for it and collect all the figures and try to complete my collection since yeah, this probably is as good as it will ever get.

Originally Posted by Dask

As far as the characters that you've mentioned, it's very likely that there will be
an Ultimate April O' Neil Expressions Pack with multiple head sculpts and mutant exchange parts, an Ultimate Shredder (with more accurate proportions, toon accuracy, alternate unmasked head, perhaps packed in with his mom), Ultimate Slash (Trevor Zammit mentioned how he was displeased with the proportions for Slash). Also, Casey may be reissued or updated.

It's unlikely that Foot Soldier or B&R will be updated. However, Trevor Zammit did mention something about a battle damage Foot Soldier in one of his interviews, so perhaps, a toon accurate sculpt is in the works.

Generally, towards the end of a toy line, some of the more iconic characters are revisited. For DC Collectibles BTAS figures, the sculpts of Batman, Joker and Robin were updated with improved cel shading, and Catwoman was updated with an unmasked Selina Kyle sculpt.

That would be great if they made a new and improved Shredder. I just think the legs and arms look too thin compared to the new upper body sculpt. If they made an all new unique sculpt for Shredder based on the cartoon, I would jump on it and start buying more and more characters. But yeah the Foot Soldiers I highly doubt they will re-do since they’re army builders. My only complaint with them is the lower body is just a repaint of the comics Foot Soldier so the legs look too thin and the shirt/belt doesn’t match the toon. But really not that noticeable, not as much as Shredder’s flaws. It seems the robotic Bebop&Rocksteady height is more in line with the toon.

Originally Posted by Lordmylar06

As far as the look of the figures, nobody is going to touch the accuracy that NECA has set the bar on. There are some mistakes they've made on sculpt and proportions but for the actual cartoon look and feel they've nailed it. I would like to see some mistakes corrected on proportions for some figures though. April's proportions are way off and as someone stated just above Trevor wasn't happy with Slash's proportions. Even if they don't address just those 2 issues I think this is still the best we'll see for an original cartoon line.

Yeah the April proportions look way off. Strangely when they showed the prototype for one of the Toy Fairs it looked waaaayyy better, but the actual product definitely has some flaws. I suppose I could attempt to customize some of the figures, but I usually just customize vintage Playmates figures with cut joints. The highly articulated NECA figures would definitely be more challenging to customize.

Originally Posted by IMJ

There are always ways to re-release a toyline or improve something or add a headsculpt, etc. So in the "Cashgrab department" it can be done - especially if TMNT ever kicks the 5" or 6" scales.

But I think that for most of us here NECA is likely the last hurrah for TMNT '87 for a few reasons. On the negative side many of us are so dug-in that this is it - I mean let's face it, at this point anyone who has followed the line from the beginning has incurred something like a $4,000 dollar bill picking up what has been released so far. On the positive side, the completion factor is big given that this line truly represents things that we saw appear on screen - even moreso when we get deeper-cut characters like Bugman or REX.

So yeah I think this is it - most of us probably won't want to do the financial deep-dive into this again and the line is pretty encompassing in a way that the FW show has never seen before.

That’s one thing very impressive NECA has done is make some obscure characters and accessories that we remember from the show. I just wish they put more effort early on into the more important characters like Shredder but since he was one of the earlier figures at that point they probably didn’t know how the line would go, if it would sell and maybe they didn’t have all the licensing rights they have now. I could totally see them re-doing an “ultimate” Shredder that is perfect likeness of the cartoon.

Well, I do have the life-size toon Leonardo by NECA. This for me is the ultimate TMNT figure, but sadly it was discontinued before we got the other 3 turtles. If I ever manage to get another one of these, or if the foam ever starts degrading and I have to restore it, I would definitely turn it into a Raphael with plain white eyes.

[Zulithe]

NECA toon line is the best we are gonna get. Might not be the last, but it will be the best. Here are my reasons.

1. the 87 toon fanbase is aging, so there isn't much time left to milk them for lots of money. it's now or never.

2. action figure prices continue to rise and it's becoming untenable. There may never be a future time where a large line with great variety of figure scan be done at a price people can afford.

3. NECA is already better than what came before, what reason do we have to believe anything better will come after anyway?

Now, figures based on other iterations of TMNT, like my personal fav 2012, or maybe the upcoming 2023 movie, "best" figures based on those could differ, hard to say how those others will hash out. For example, right now with 2012 the best are the revoltechs, but I'm still hopeful we'll get some others someday. Best case scenario I can imagine right now is NECA continues with turtles for several more years, so they can cover TMNT3 movie, Next Mutation (yeah, yeah), 2003, 2007, 2012, IDW, etc.

[AquaParade]

That giant Leonardo is incredibly cool. How long do you estimate it lasts before it begins to degrade? Anyone have a rough estimate? Just curious.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by TurtleManiac

if the foam ever starts degrading and I have to restore it, I would definitely turn it into a Raphael with plain white eyes

Back around 2004 I bought a foam/rubber/latex Prometheum Armor Iron Man mask - a Halloween mask basically - from a pretty hardcore costume maker selling his masks in one of the LCS's. He told me that with material like that you can put a little Armor All on it from time to time and it will remain supple and not break down.

I still have that mask and it's in perfect shape - a custom, latex Iron Man helmet basically over 20 years now. I'd say that every now and again just dust your Turtle with a swifter cloth and then put the absolute lightest layer of Armor All on it every two years or so and you'll have that thing for decades. It's the mask in the middle of the helmet array there....



On another note back to the convo - I'd also say that once the NECA FW line dries up or interest diminishes we could see eyes turn back towards the vintage toys. There is no nostalgia like going back to the original thing.

[TurtleManiac]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

1. the 87 toon fanbase is aging, so there isn't much time left to milk them for lots of money. it's now or never.

This too is a valid point I hadn’t even considered. But it kinda seems like even newer generations of kids are fans of the ‘87 toon since there’s so much retro merchandise out there this last few years and the parents handing down their old toys. Kinda like Star Wars, new fans of the franchise still are interested in seeing the old movies and figures. Maybe the TMNT cartoon will live on for future generations. But yeah definitely right now is a good time to market these figures to the old school fan base.

Originally Posted by AquaParade

That giant Leonardo is incredibly cool. How long do you estimate it lasts before it begins to degrade? Anyone have a rough estimate? Just curious.

It is my absolute favorite TMNT figure ever! I’ve had it for about 4 or 5 years now and haven’t noticed any degradation. I hope it lasts a very long time but from what I’ve read about foam/latex props they’re bound to break down at some point.

Originally Posted by IMJ

Back around 2004 I bought a foam/rubber/latex Prometheum Armor Iron Man mask - a Halloween mask basically - from a pretty hardcore costume maker selling his masks in one of the LCS's. He told me that with material like that you can put a little Armor All on it from time to time and it will remain supple and not break down.

I still have that mask and it's in perfect shape - a custom, latex Iron Man helmet basically over 20 years now. I'd say that every now and again just dust your Turtle with a swifter cloth and then put the absolute lightest layer of Armor All on it every two years or so and you'll have that thing for decades. It's the mask in the middle of the helmet array there....

https://i.imgur.com/XKSID3wm.jpg

Thanks for those tips! A friend of mine has a NECA Slimer foam prop and also suggested something similar but he couldn’t remember exactly, was suggesting hairspray but wasn’t sure. I haven’t done any maintenance on this Leo yet but I should probably get on it cause I want it to last as long as possible, will definitely check out the armor all method.

Originally Posted by IMJ

On another note back to the convo - I'd also say that once the NECA FW line dries up or interest diminishes we could see eyes turn back towards the vintage toys. There is no nostalgia like going back to the original thing.

Isn’t Super 7 already doing that? They look great but I haven’t even started collecting those, was thinking about it but they look so similar to the Playmates vintage figures which I already have all of them. Plus I’ve already invested so much into the NECA movie line and now I’m gonna try and collect the whole cartoon line. There is so much retro TMNT stuff out now, hard to keep up!

[Newton Gimmick]

To the OP, yes and no.

On one hand it's very unlikely anyone will ever go as deep or as far as they have with the FW Toon figures. I think other companies will make figures of them, but unlikely anyone will do as many.

I don't think their toon line is that great (certain parts definitely are fantastic) because of the goofy cell shading that they decided to do. It pretty much ruins all the characters for me. Putting in 2D shadowing on a 3D object is stupid and they went so far in on it that for certain figures I just can't even stand to look at them. And if you pose them, it destroys the illusion anyway.

On some figures it doesn't look as bad.

So is this the best it gets? Probably not on certain characters.

Is this the deepest a line will ever go? Most likely.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by Newton Gimmick

To the OP, yes and no.

On one hand it's very unlikely anyone will ever go as deep or as far as they have with the FW Toon figures. I think other companies will make figures of them, but unlikely anyone will do as many.

I don't think their toon line is that great (certain parts definitely are fantastic) because of the goofy cell shading that they decided to do. It pretty much ruins all the characters for me. Putting in 2D shadowing on a 3D object is stupid and they went so far in on it that for certain figures I just can't even stand to look at them. And if you pose them, it destroys the illusion anyway.

On some figures it doesn't look as bad.

So is this the best it gets? Probably not on certain characters.

Is this the deepest a line will ever go? Most likely.

It's actually a controversial point, the cel-shading. Most toy reviewers seem to love them and praise the cel-shading (except when they go overboard with say, mirage Lootcrate Shredder). I've only seen 3 commenters in the past 5 years that claim that the cel-shading absolutely ruins the entire line for them and I've went through thousands and thousands of comments. A more popular contention is the pixel decos on the arcade/video game line. It's been stated that the pixels, which are characteristic of 2D art, has no place on 3D objects (similar to what you are saying here).

[mikey see]

When wave 1 came out I didn't like the two-tone shading. I thought it looked silly and restrictive. Now I don't even see it. If you asked me if they kept it up as the line went on I think I actually would have said "no".

The pixel deco, however, looks absolutely terrible and makes zero sense. The sculpts aren't blocky, why should the paint be? There are some amazing figures in the video game line that I just can't bring myself to get because the paint is so dumb.

[jestergoblin]

Put me in the "dislikes cel shading camp." I also don't care for the comic accents on the Archie, Last Ronin & Mirage lines (even going back to the 2008 ones) or the pixelated paint jobs for video game characters.

Especially when it gets paired with super detailed sculpts (Groundchuck, Dirtbag and Usagi all feel like they're from a completely different line versus the likes of Bebop, Rocksteady and Leatherhead).

I adore the figures like Traag and Granitor and the many of the humans, but that's in spite of the paint, not because of it.

[TurtleManiac]

Originally Posted by Newton Gimmick

To the OP, yes and no.

On one hand it's very unlikely anyone will ever go as deep or as far as they have with the FW Toon figures. I think other companies will make figures of them, but unlikely anyone will do as many.

I don't think their toon line is that great (certain parts definitely are fantastic) because of the goofy cell shading that they decided to do. It pretty much ruins all the characters for me. Putting in 2D shadowing on a 3D object is stupid and they went so far in on it that for certain figures I just can't even stand to look at them. And if you pose them, it destroys the illusion anyway.

On some figures it doesn't look as bad.

So is this the best it gets? Probably not on certain characters.

Is this the deepest a line will ever go? Most likely.

I do agree about the two tone cel shading on these figures. I really don’t think it was necessary. But I coulda sworn that they said early on in the line, that it was part of the licensing agreement or something, though I could be mistaken.

But yeah, the cel shading really is not necessary. The lighting/shading comes naturally depending how well lit the room is, no need to draw in those two tone shades. Back when NECA did their first 4-pak of pixelated arcade turtles, before they released the toon versions, I actually painted the set of 4, without cel shading etc, and they looked just fine without it, it still gets shade depending what direction the figure/lighting is at. The way some of the toon line shading is done, the backside just looks weird being completely different color than the front.