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Old 08-11-2008, 06:50 PM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Tales of the TMNT Scrap Heap, Part Deux

Hey, let me join the sandbox.

Here's my own declined Tale of the TMNT. No ill will toward anyone by any means -- I'm still very, very honored and thrilled I even had a chance to officially pitch a story. It makes me feel even better to know that guys the calibre of Tristan are the indy writers who got stories through this coming year. It's going to be a fun year, I think.

Anyway, here was my pitch:
http://www.thegreenlanterncorps.com/tales.pdf
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:03 PM   #2
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I know we have slight differences on how seriously we both interpret the Turtles, but it is a good story. I would've bought it!
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Old 08-12-2008, 02:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Goongasnootch View Post
I know we have slight differences on how seriously we both interpret the Turtles, but it is a good story. I would've bought it!
That means a lot from you.

I do have a comic project coming later this year. A Highlander comic project for Dynamite Entertainment with veteran writer Brandon Jerwa -- very exciting.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:15 AM   #4
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Awesome.. Just awesome o.o

I guess you were given no reason for rejection, but I would still like to hear anyone justify the rejection of this..
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:24 AM   #5
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That means a lot from you.
Despite our differences, I know a good story when I see one and I'm not gonna lie just because its not in the same tone as Vol. 1 #1 or Vol. 1 #41.

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I do have a comic project coming later this year. A Highlander comic project for Dynamite Entertainment with veteran writer Brandon Jerwa -- very exciting.
Is it based in any particular continuity?

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Old 08-12-2008, 03:37 AM   #6
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Awesome.. Just awesome o.o

I guess you were given no reason for rejection, but I would still like to hear anyone justify the rejection of this..
I don't wish to speculate, but if I had to, I'd think maybe my attempt to make sense of the various peeks at the Future Turtles wasn't quite in line with Peter's. Which is totally cool -- it was a shot in the dark.

Or maybe it just didn't hold as much water as the other many Tales on the table for consideration for the year. Again, knowing that stories like Tristan's are the ones that made it past the finishing line over my little yarn makes me feel not the least bit jilted.

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Is it based in any particular continuity?
Great pains have been gone to ensuring it conforms to the "expanded" Highlander continuity (Duncan included), but certainly all you need to have seen to appreciate the comic is having seen the first Highlander movie.

It's basically the life story of the Kurgan, the arch villain of Connor MacLeod. Two issues, this Fall I think.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:38 AM   #7
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I don't wish to speculate, but if I had to, I'd think maybe my attempt to make sense of the various peeks at the Future Turtles wasn't quite in line with Peter's. Which is totally cool -- it was a shot in the dark.

Or maybe it just didn't hold as much water as the other many Tales on the table for consideration for the year. Again, knowing that stories like Tristan's are the ones that made it past the finishing line over my little yarn makes me feel not the least bit jilted.



Great pains have been gone to ensuring it conforms to the "expanded" Highlander continuity (Duncan included), but certainly all you need to have seen to appreciate the comic is having seen the first Highlander movie.

It's basically the life story of the Kurgan, the arch villain of Connor MacLeod. Two issues, this Fall I think.
Oh, sweet! Though I like the series, the first movie is where its at! I think the anime movie is pretty high up there, too, though.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:41 AM   #8
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Oh, sweet! Though I like the series, the first movie is where its at! I think the anime movie is pretty high up there, too, though.
I'm a much bigger fan of what the TV series brought to the table to expand the universe but certainly, if someone came to me and held a gun at my head and said, "You have to watch 2 hours of Highlander over and over again," I'm going to go with the first movie (honorable mention to "Endgame," which actually hooked me to Highlander to begin with).

The anime movie is great, and it's awesome that Kevin Eastman had some involvement in that. It even kind of works in the expanded Highlander universe... sort of. If you ask me, though, in the end it's more Highlander-molded-to-fit-anime rather than the other way around... which is probably the way it should have been. Still, I'm really not a fan of Highlander continually trying to venture to a post-apocalyptic future.

To me, at least, Highlander's greatest allure is that... you know, you're on the subway, and the guy in a trenchcoat next to you could be a 2,000 year-old Immortal packing a sword looking to take another Immortal's head. They're among us; they're living with us.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:58 AM   #9
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Yeah, the post-apocalyptic thing was never my favorite, either. However, it was still fun to watch the anime version.

Though I do like the series and its universe, I thought Endgame was alright and I couldn't even sit through The Source. I just think Highlander was one of those things that, except for the Series, shouldn't have continued.

Sometimes I have similar feelings about the Turtles, but a lot a good's come out of it, too.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:04 AM   #10
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Yeah, the post-apocalyptic thing was never my favorite, either. However, it was still fun to watch the anime version.

Though I do like the series and its universe, I thought Endgame was alright and I couldn't even sit through The Source. I just think Highlander was one of those things that, except for the Series, shouldn't have continued.

Sometimes I have similar feelings about the Turtles, but a lot a good's come out of it, too.
Yes, "The Source" was horrible. But it's subjective. Where "Highlander 2" was kind of a bat to the skull, forever damning Highlander from ever really being taken seriously in the mass media, "Highlander: The Source" was only the final bullet to the brain. "The Source" was largely a case of the studio (Lion's Gate) demanding a movie be something it wasn't supposed to be... in this case, a slasher film.

Though there is a remake of Highlander 1 soon to be rolling soon... the jury's out on that.

"The Source," however, was retconned away even before it was released (on DVD). At HLWW8 in Vancouver last October, which was awesome by the way (and HLWW9 is coming next April in Los Angeles), I attended the "Sunday Night Concert" which the high point of was actually Adrian Paul (Duncan MacLeod) and Elizabeth Gracen (Amanda) acting out a legitimately written scene by David Abramowitz (head writer of the Highlander TV show) in-character which they had coffee and Duncan said he'd had a horrible nightmare the day before of "The Source"'s events.

There was also a panel the day before in which just about everone involved in the Source (apart from producer/co-owner William Panzer, who'd just passed away) basically disavowed any attachment to it.

About the Turtles... you know my feelings on it well. I could say that things probably shouldn't have continued past the first movie given the way they went... but I honestly don't think we've really ever seen them start properly in the mass media, given the source material.

Still, that first movie was a relatively equitable middle ground.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:20 AM   #11
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Well, in terms of the Turtles and mass media, we just need someone to come by and "Frank Miller" it about a decade from now for it to be taken seriously by the masses (at least the masses that'll be in their late teens and early 20s by then). But, in general, from the Indie comic scene, sometimes I just wish that it had its good run and then just quit while it was ahead.

Like I said, though, a lot of good stories have come from the fact that it did continue, though. Now if only Gary Carlson and Frank Fosco were able to finish Vol. 3, then I wouldn't have much of anything to complain about.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:24 AM   #12
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Well, in terms of the Turtles and mass media, we just need someone to come by and "Frank Miller" it about a decade from now for it to be taken seriously by the masses (at least the masses that'll be in their late teens and early 20s by then). But, in general, from the Indie comic scene, sometimes I just wish that it had its good run and then just quit while it was ahead.
Very much agreed. I can't pass judgement on Kev and Pete's business decisions in the 80s (if I was them, god knows I wouldn't pass up the kind of deals they had in front of them), but had it been kept an underground, relatively indy comic ala Hellboy/Cerebus/Groo... who knows what kind of TMNT movies we'd see getting made about now. Now, in an era where comic book properties are being taken seriously on the big screen.

Quote:
Like I said, though, a lot of good stories have come from the fact that it did continue, though. Now if only Gary Carlson and Frank Fosco were able to finish Vol. 3, then I wouldn't have much of anything to complain about.
I've been talking to Gary Carlson for years and he absolutely had the best intentions at heart. I know exactly where he intended to take things beyond where things were left in Vol. 3 and I think a lot of fans would have been very pleased. Truncated where things were is kind of akin to... hm, think about the first TMNT movie where Raph is put into a coma by the Foot -- OK, now imagine the movie stopping right there.

A lot of things in Vol. 3 I would've rather seen done differently to be sure, but absolutely, I had no qualms there.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:36 AM   #13
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Very much agreed. I can't pass judgement on Kev and Pete's business decisions in the 80s (if I was them, god knows I wouldn't pass up the kind of deals they had in front of them), but had it been kept an underground, relatively indy comic ala Hellboy/Cerebus/Groo... who knows what kind of TMNT movies we'd see getting made about now. Now, in an era where comic book properties are being taken seriously on the big screen.



I've been talking to Gary Carlson for years and he absolutely had the best intentions at heart. I know exactly where he intended to take things beyond where things were left in Vol. 3 and I think a lot of fans would have been very pleased. Truncated where things were is kind of akin to... hm, think about the first TMNT movie where Raph is put into a coma by the Foot -- OK, now imagine the movie stopping right there.

A lot of things in Vol. 3 I would've rather seen done differently to be sure, but absolutely, I had no qualms there.
Well, Volume 3 was a whole lot of, "Oh my fscking God! How could they do that to [so-and-so]?! This is so not cool," for me. However, something about it kept bringing me back whenever I could get ahold of an issue. Something deeper than instinct told me that Vol. 3 was worth continuing to read because everything was gonna turn out okay if I just stuck with it.

As far as I know nowadays, the Image team was going to get around to fixing up everything that had been done and resolve all the fun plot points while they were at it and it would've been great to read. Too bad Vol. 3 has basically been retconned in favor of the Turtles sitting around and doing nothing \in the rarely-updated Vol. 4.

At least we have Tales for the moment.
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Old 08-12-2008, 05:12 AM   #14
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Well, Volume 3 was a whole lot of, "Oh my fscking God! How could they do that to [so-and-so]?! This is so not cool," for me. However, something about it kept bringing me back whenever I could get ahold of an issue. Something deeper than instinct told me that Vol. 3 was worth continuing to read because everything was gonna turn out okay if I just stuck with it.

As far as I know nowadays, the Image team was going to get around to fixing up everything that had been done and resolve all the fun plot points while they were at it and it would've been great to read. Too bad Vol. 3 has basically been retconned in favor of the Turtles sitting around and doing nothing \in the rarely-updated Vol. 4.
I remember writing the same thing about Vol. 2 in the Vol. 3 lettercols.

It's funny, I remember just a few years ago I wrote Peter Laird a letter that was published... around #20 or so in Vol. 4. I expressed my background as a fan, that I'd followed TMNT since I was a wee lad, even once sleeping in TMNT cartoon bedsheets. Then even that as an adult I'd found out my "friend" quietly sold off all the TMNT comics I'd collected stored in his garage so that he could buy weed (all right, so I left off that last part).

I then explained the reasons, to Laird, why it was crazy to me for him to write off Volume 3. That Volume 3 at Image was widely announced by Mirage and ninjaturtles.com to fans to be a continuation of the Mirage books, that Gary Carlson made it a point to honor all the continuity that came before it (even bringing back Klunk, for goodness sake), taking the baton that Mirage passed to him/them and ran with it... and that it was a big slap in the face for Mirage to suddenly turn around and say that none of Volume 3 happened when all those folks involved had done Mirage (and the fans) a huge favor. I even listed the things that stood in potential conflict with Volume 4 and how easily they could be explained away.

Peter Laird answered me in the lettercol, acknowledging that it would be quite easy to accept Volume 3 into canon. He said plainly, though, that to do so just wouldn't "Feel right" to him.

You know what, though? That was good enough for me. It took a while for that to really settle with me, but it did.

For the larger part of Vol. 3's lattermost run when it was losing money it was mostly being quietly funded by Laird. Even barring that, it was always spoken that Image/Highbrow/Erik Larsen/Carlson were only taking up the duties until such a time if/when Mirage would resume things.

Though I admit I'm a tiny bit still torn. I do recall reading that Peter Laird was at least peripherally involved in the co-plotting of Vol. 3, and certainly involved in the approval process of each and every story (and he even is quoted in the TMNT Vol. 3 TPB loudly applauding those comics)... if I had to twist an old nit, I really would wish if there'd been any thought in the back of anyone's head about "If/when we take back over the TMNT comics, this won't/shouldn't be in canon" that those thoughts had been communicated to the folks involved in Vol. 3 before each issue had been approved so that they had been more in line with the overal canonical vision.

"Working with Gary Carlson from the 'approvals' end of things, here at Mirage Studios, I've had the pleasure of watching the book develop from a slightly tentative start to the exciting, innovative comic it is today. This new iteration of the TMNT has heart, soul... and balls." - Peter Laird, TMNT Vol. 3 TPB
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #15
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Good read there, Andrew. There's a lot to like about this potential issue, including:

Spoiler:

-The reason for Raph's detachment from his brothers
-Splinter still recognizing an elderly Raph
-Don running a computer simulation of having a son
-Savanti Romero contributing to Raph's insanity
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Old 08-12-2008, 09:56 PM   #16
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Actually the ideas aren't bad at all. If they won't publish this, why not write it anyways?
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:41 PM   #17
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Actually the ideas aren't bad at all. If they won't publish this, why not write it anyways?
I don't know how many scripts you've tried to write, but at least to me the writing is the "hardest" part since it takes the most time and I'm not very patient... And I would never "waste" my time writing something that I know I couldn't sell.

Can obviously not speak for the others.. Just one example of why I personally wouldn't do it
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:16 AM   #18
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I didn't say write a script, I dont write. I do write silly lame little fan fics, but thats where alot of writers start out to stretch the skill a bit.

Whats wrong with writing it out just for fun? Writing should be that, FUN..not just ONLY for profit.
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Old 08-13-2008, 12:46 AM   #19
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I'm certainly not above TMNT fanfiction. Have a lot on my plate at the moment, though.
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Old 08-13-2008, 01:46 AM   #20
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I didn't say write a script, I dont write. I do write silly lame little fan fics, but thats where alot of writers start out to stretch the skill a bit.

Whats wrong with writing it out just for fun? Writing should be that, FUN..not just ONLY for profit.
Of course it should be fun... Writing isn't something you do if you don't think it's fun And I never have any money in mind when I write (not that there's much money to make) What motivates me is, I wanna tell a story and hopefully someone other than me will like it..

But I don't really have time to write JUST for fun, sadly... With school and everything...
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