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Old 02-20-2021, 01:56 PM   #1
FredWolfLeonardo
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How do you feel about the Shredder being an Utrom?

Like many people, I was put off at first by the idea of the mighty Shredder having been a squishy little red alien all along. Over the years however, I have come to really appreciate this creative decision for the following reasons:

1. Makes the Shredder a threat who operated on an extremely large scale, having obliterated entire civilizations and having existed thousands of years prior to the existence of the turtles. Makes him all the more threatening especially when you consider that this Shredder only sees the turtles as minor thorns in his side and isn't cartoonishly obsessed with them for the part.

2. Reduces the question of Shredder's morals in this incarnations since he is not human, so the cold and ruthless part of his character can be fully focused on (unlike say, the Nick cartoon version which attempted to portray some sympathetic angles).

3. Allowed for the writers to creatively incorporate the beheading of the Shredder from Mirage which never would've been possible in the cartoon if he was human, especially back in the early 2000s.

The only thing which I couldn't stand was that helium voice that was given to Ch'rell, it really did come off as goofy in what is otherwise supposed to be a very intimidating character
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question.

Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.

Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 02-20-2021, 02:34 PM   #2
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1. Makes the Shredder a threat who operated on an extremely large scale, having obliterated entire civilizations and having existed thousands of years prior to the existence of the turtles.
Why is that a boon?

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2. Reduces the question of Shredder's morals in this incarnations since he is not human, so the cold and ruthless part of his character can be fully focused on (unlike say, the Nick cartoon version which attempted to portray some sympathetic angles).
I'm not sure why if he's an alien, an elf, an orc, or a mutant would have any bearing on why we would or wouldn't need to "question" the morals of a character. Whereas Fred Wolf Shredder's "morals" are poorly explained and defined... 4Kids' Ch'rell's aren't explained at all.

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3. Allowed for the writers to creatively incorporate the beheading of the Shredder from Mirage which never would've been possible in the cartoon if he was human, especially back in the early 2000s.
Who cares? oooh, they beheaded a robot head, so edgy.
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Old 02-20-2021, 02:58 PM   #3
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I think it works fine within the context of the show it was developed for, but I don't generally like the idea outside of that.

I mean, it was pretty much only done so that they could 1. Get away with a "Krang"-like character (since they knew people would complain if there wasn't one, given the FW show's popularity) without it actually being Krang, and 2. So they could cut Shredder's head off and have it not actually be a big deal. So, "Kids Cartoon" reasons rather than actual "This makes the story better" reasons.

Outside of the specific context of a kids' cartoon, there's really no reason to do it. And while I'm fine with it for what it was, I also completely understand why some people absolutely hate the idea.
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Old 02-20-2021, 03:09 PM   #4
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As pointed out already, it worked out for what they wanted to do but it isn't something I want to see otherwise.

Last edited by newfan; 02-20-2021 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 02-20-2021, 03:41 PM   #5
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I enjoyed it, it was pretty clever to keep it a secret for 34 episodes, this helped me like the Styx song Mr. Roboto, some of the lyrics remind me of Utrom Shredder.

I’m a little confused about his Utrom voice though, why does his Utrom self have his own voice in season 2 and have the Shredder voice in season 3 and up?
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Old 02-20-2021, 04:00 PM   #6
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As pointed out already, it worked out for what they wanted to do but it isn't something I want to see otherwise.
Yeah, pretty much this. Fun for a one & done.
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Old 02-20-2021, 04:26 PM   #7
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In the show itself, it's not a problem. It was foreshadowed well in advance and the revelation that his ambitions naturally reached well beyond New York, let alone earth. Objectively speaking and not keeping any other TMNT incarnations in mind, there is nothing wrong with this twist.

Does it come out of nowhere? No.
Were there clues? Yes.
Does it contradict previously established facts? No.
Does it alter the direction of the story? Yes.

Most of the problems come in when other iterations of TMNT are in mind. Then we get discussions about wheter or not he should have remained human and how that would have worked in terms of drama or plot. Wheter or not it makes sense to have the Shredder be an Utrom outside of this show, or even if the change was warranted, is another discussion than wheter or it worked here. And here in particular, I can't honestly say there is anything wrong with it, it just isn't poorly implemented.

As if Shredder could be an Utrom elsewhere? Perhaps if you were to make an adaptation that positions the Fugitoid as the main character for example, or something that would warrant an alien villain, I don't think it would matter that much. Even if you just "feel like it" and do it well, I don't see much problem with that either, though your bar is set a little higher if you don't have any real justification for it.
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Old 02-20-2021, 04:38 PM   #8
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i think this was a good decision as it showed off that he was still a threat outside the suit and it just made the original shredder all that more of a threat
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Old 02-21-2021, 09:49 PM   #9
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I actually think it's worth exploring from a different angle, like I attempted to do. Especially since, once he was revealed to be an Utrom, a lot of Oroku Saki's nuance went down the drain.

That being said, it's also a good idea for IDW to explore Ch'rell completely outside of having a Humansona, in a way that 4Kids would not (or perhaps even, could not). At least it would if we could get out of mutant town. Please it's been two years at least
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:12 AM   #10
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I grudgingly respect this decision, I doubt it was an easy one and they have milked it almost for all its worth, but I am not fan of it.

It robbed from what little personality "Oroku Saki" had and lead to Shredder-festa in later seasons.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:37 AM   #11
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I've never really been a fan of him being an utrom. Fortunately, like 90% of the time that he was shown on screen, he was portrayed as either Oroku Saki or The Shredder. He was featured very rarely as Ch'rell.
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Old 02-24-2021, 05:17 PM   #12
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I don't really care seeing as he was nothing but an imposter.
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Old 02-24-2021, 06:58 PM   #13
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Back in the day, it took me a while to accept Shredder was an alien moving an exosuit all along and not an actual highly skilled ninja master.

Nowadays I've long accepted The Shredder being an Utrom in this series. It's definitely one of the strangest creative liberties to take in TMNT history, but somehow it worked well. That being said, Utrom Shredder should stay in the 2k3 cartoon series. I don't want to see that concept ever again. It's better left off as a one time thing only.
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:23 AM   #14
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It was a good twist.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
3. Allowed for the writers to creatively incorporate the beheading of the Shredder from Mirage which never would've been possible in the cartoon if he was human, especially back in the early 2000s.
Of all Mirage comics, what's the point with being so obsessed with Leonardo behading the Srhedder clone? These days (and even back in 2003), I think the Turtles easaily could kill a Human Shredder in a children's friendly TMNT cartoon and comic.

Just have the Turtles fighting Shredder on a skyscraper rooftop. Suddenly, after getting kicked by one of the Turtles, Shredder loses balance and falls down to the street beneath.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:54 PM   #16
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Because it's awesome and iconic for multiple reasons, AND a main character who carries swords but never actually uses them may as well be carrying pom-poms.
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Old 02-25-2021, 01:13 PM   #17
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Just have the Turtles fighting Shredder on a skyscraper rooftop. Suddenly, after getting kicked by one of the Turtles, Shredder loses balance and falls down to the street beneath.
Wow. Seriously, man, what the unholy fuck.
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Old 04-20-2021, 01:11 AM   #18
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I don't know why people don't like Ch'rell.
I mean, sure, is not perfectly written, but it was a nice breeze of fresh air.

Also, the entire thing about being an "impostor" (explored in the fifth season) is actually pretty interesting, way better than the 87 Shredder which was EXTREMELY goofy and very little intimidating. Hell, even the 2013 one is better.

The only thing I always hated about Ch'rell is his "resurrection" in Rogue in the House.
I mean, come on, he is dead, he got pulverized are you really telling me that an Utrom can be reformed from scratch? That's abit a bullsh*t reason to bring him back again.
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