Is 4Kid's Michelangelo the worst iteration of the character?

[Jester]

It was brought up in another thread, and as to not get that one too far off track I thought I'd start a thread about it. And to save me the trouble of re-typing what I feel here's that one off post:

Originally Posted by Me

Many of us who don't like 4Kids Mikey tend to not like what he became. I think Turtle Titan is a true test of how much poor Mikey got the shaft in the series. in Unconvincing Turtle Titan Mikey realizes he can do as much good from the shadows as Silver Sentry does in the light. It was a character arc in less than a half hour. Mikey felt the Turtles should be superheroes (which his brothers scoff at. Makes me wonder if this was a barb at the Fred Wolf series...but whatever), he goes out and teams with Sentry and has to save him using his ninja training and in the end he learns his lesson...which is totally undone by the subsequent Titan episodes. And they get worse as they go on.

Mikey started out fine in the 4kids universe, but it seems they always wrote him as a goof, and never let him be serious and that all the time goofiness made him irritating, in my opinion. And reading back over some of the Laird production notes, he has a lot to do with that, sadly.

So, do think 4Kids version of Mikey was the weakest, or does he just get a bad rap?

[sdp]

They made him way too annoying but then again they also made Raph too grouchy and Casey jones too stupid. I wish they had struck a better balance in their personalities, however. I still feel that, Mikey brought a certain charm with his annoying ways, I just wish they had been toned down a bit.

[CyberCubed]

The odd thing is 4kids Mike started off GREAT. I loved his character for Seasons 1-2 and most of Season 3. For most of Season 4 he was OK too.

Two terrible things ruined his character:

- The Turtle Titan costume

- Winning the Battle Nexus tournament

Followed by:

- Being dumbed down considerably during Fast Forward and BTTS

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

- Being dumbed down considerably during Fast Forward and BTTS

This I do agree with but other than that I love the character

[Uki]

I liked him in what I saw, but I stopped watching regularly around the time of the Battle Nexus-life was always getting in the way and I fell behind. By the time I started being able to watch, FF was happening, and I was feeling "meh" about that...

But Mikey is my favorite!

[Konchadunga]

It's worth noting that as annoying as 4Kids Michelangelo was in some other places, he has "The Christmas Aliens" to compensate. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes of that series, the only good Turtles Christmas special, and one of my favorite Christmas specials, period. It has a heart, Klunk is adorable, and it's one of the few Christmas specials to include a car-chase. That's worth a lot.

[This_is_my_username]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

It's worth noting that as annoying as 4Kids Michelangelo was in some other places, he has "The Christmas Aliens" to compensate. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes of that series, the only good Turtles Christmas special, and one of my favorite Christmas specials, period. It has a heart, Klunk is adorable, and it's one of the few Christmas specials to include a car-chase. That's worth a lot.

That was the first episode I watched of the 4Kids, and the one that hooked me to the series.

I like all the versions of Mikey, and although at times his 4kids personality wavered on obnoxious, to be fair, all four turtle personalities were exaggerated to obnoxious lengths sometimes during the series. I've always had a sore spot whenever the cartoons /certain movies tried to play up stupidity with the turtles. Despite having four very unique personalities and interests, they are all trained, disciplined, battle savvy, and intelligent creatures. They're still funny when they're allowed to be smart- Mike is clever funny, and Raph is sarcastic/deadpan funny. Noone needs to be dumb funny. That being said, I still liked the series as a whole, and I generally liked all four turtles, just not as much as their first and second movie personalities.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

It's worth noting that as annoying as 4Kids Michelangelo was in some other places, he has "The Christmas Aliens" to compensate. It's one of my all-time favorite episodes of that series, the only good Turtles Christmas special, and one of my favorite Christmas specials, period. It has a heart, Klunk is adorable, and it's one of the few Christmas specials to include a car-chase. That's worth a lot.

Good point. I do love that episode, aside from the inclusion of Silver Sentry, Daimyo, Professor and his gang and Angel, but that ain't Mikey's fault.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by sdp

They made him way too annoying but then again they also made Raph too grouchy and Casey jones too stupid. I wish they had struck a better balance in their personalities.

Definitely this. But yeah, for me he's my least favorite version of Mike. Coming close would be the Next Mutation...

[Samhain]

I don't really have an issue with Mikey in this series. All the turtles in 2k3 are a bit one-dimensional, if you ask me. Sure, he's annoying sometimes but I personally get annoyed more with Raph always being grouchy and Leo acting like a know it all. Leo is definitely more annoying in 2k3 than Mikey is, IMO. And I'm a big Leo fan.

[CyberCubed]

I guess the problem with the 4kids Turtles is none of them could really change all that much without reverting back to their usual personas.

Granted it was the same in the original series as well, but the Turtles all remained likeable and funny so people didn't care.

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Samhain

I don't really have an issue with Mikey in this series. All the turtles in 2k3 are a bit one-dimensional, if you ask me. Sure, he's annoying sometimes but I personally get annoyed more with Raph always being grouchy and Leo acting like a know it all. Leo is definitely more annoying in 2k3 than Mikey is, IMO. And I'm a big Leo fan.

Yes, all of their personalities are over exaggerated to the point of annoyance. Though Mikey does seem to get stupified in the toons. A little goofy is one thing, but sometimes he's made to look like an idiot.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Mikey has never been my favorite of any version, but he was semi-okay here. Most of the time my reaction towards his antics would be just to roll my eyes. Every once in a while he'd be actually funny and I'd laugh. That is until he won the tournament.

Then it's like his freakin' head blew up. He was arrogant and cocky "I don't have to do anything. I'm the best in the world because I'm BATTLE NEXUS CHAMPION1111!!!!". He constantly pissed me off with his show-boat elitist attitude. 4Kids got carried away with it. It got even worse when he became dumb as ass in FF and BTTS.

[Donnie]

As expected I voted It's a bum rap. 4Kids Mikey is just fine..

4Kids Mikey is one of my favorite Mikey's around. I'm not going to say that he doesn't get annoying at times, but to echo Samhain he's no more annoying than Raph, Leo, and especially Casey.

In fact, I don't think he was that annoying at all. Slightly over the top at times like I've said, but I really just don't understand why people gripe over him so much. In my opinion, OT Mike was more annoying. I know many don't agree cause of his voice actor and nostalgia, but when I watch the OT I sometimes cringe at the 80s slang that poured from him. That's not really my cup of tea concerning Mikey. That OT aspect of Mike was toned down a tremendous amount in the 2k3, which worked great to me.

What Jester mentioned about Laird is perhaps somewhat accurate because Laird wanted to keep the Turtles "pure" while pleasing the masses who took the series simply as a light hearted cartoon. He had to include goofiness, and he certainly wouldn't let any of that fall onto Don and Leo, as seen by his notes. So Mikey bore the brunt of it. But for me, it didn't really make him annoying, and I thought a lot of his goofiness was tasteful and hilarious.

I don't agree that Mikey wanting to be a superhero was a bad thing at all, rather a key element of Mikey's personality and his want to be something more than just a turtle-in-a-sewer. When I asked PL what he wished he would have done more of with Mikey in the 2k3 his answer was:

As far as places I would like to have taken him in the 4Kids show, I think I would have liked to play with the whole "desire to be a Super Hero" thing that Mike was into, and also put him through some darker episodes. I think that one of the things which made "Same As It Never Was" so strong was seeing Mike stripped of his lighthearted side for a bit. Not that I would want to turn him into a grim 'n' gritty character -- just would have been interesting to see how he dealt with those situations. -- PL

So PL clearly wanted to show other sides of Mikey. Like I said, I really just think it was cause he so strongly felt that Don and Leo had to be serious minded and even went as extreme as telling Lloyd not to have Don and Leo say "yeah" but the proper "yes" - so the goofiness had to fall on Mike by default.

Anyways, no, 2k3 Mike isn't the worst interpretation of the character. I think IDW is (besides the constant video game stereotype we see literally almost every issue) doing an excellent job handling Mike's character, taking what will obviously never leave him from the OT and combining it with a balanced marriage between Mirage/2k3. So far he actually reminds me of movie 1 Mike - my favorite version of the character, which blended the OT with Mirage. Add a little 2k3 in there and you have IDW's Mike so far. I'm happy with that.

[Jester]

Now the "Mikey in dark stories" idea I could handle. Part of me wonders what Mikey would have done in the SaiNW universe had he have gone there instead of Donnie, but that's neither here nor there. I think the 2 things that did Mikey in for me were the Turtle Titan (at least in his appearances in >> and BttS. Clash of the Turtle Titans and Super Power Struggle make my brain hurt. And like I said i think the 'desire to be a superhero" was explored very well...in TT's first episode!) and the over blown "BATTLE NEXUS CHAMPION!1!1! stuff (although it did make for a good call back in Grudge Match).

Maybe you're right that the nostalgia blinders are on, but FW Mikey never bugged me, but then again he wasn't the one cracking wise. That was Raph. FW Mikey was just laid back and mellow. Not sure what makes Raph's jokes work and 4Kids Mikey's flop...maybe the show's tone. I dunna. In any case, the humor that was attempted with Mikey never worked for me like Raph's did in the FW series.

[akp]

This is one of the more balanced responses about Mikey in 2k3.

I get the feeling that the character was written a lot more deeply that one may perceive from the surface.

Mikey represented a certained childishness, yes, but it was more of a child, who wants to be happy. He and Don seemed as two turtles who had a vocation/hobby/interest other than just being crime fighters.

Also, he seemed like the warrior who did not want to fight, but would fight when he had to. Case in point how he went against Kluh when it came down to his family.

He knew he was annoying but to be fair he also knew how to use it to his advantage. Eg. how he wore down and defeated Raph without even taking out his Chucks.

Maybe he was a bit distracted to be ninja. But of the four he seemed to be the least comfortable with the whole living in the shadows phenomena.

He wanted a life. And something larger than life to look forward to.

He was the dreamer in gang. If you notice he was the one who coaxed don to rig up the battle shell the first time. He was not an engineer but he was a dreamer.

One has to look at him slightly deeper than just the surface antics.

Originally Posted by Michelangelo

As expected I voted It's a bum rap. 4Kids Mikey is just fine..

4Kids Mikey is one of my favorite Mikey's around. I'm not going to say that he doesn't get annoying at times, but to echo Samhain he's no more annoying than Raph, Leo, and especially Casey.

In fact, I don't think he was that annoying at all. Slightly over the top at times like I've said, but I really just don't understand why people gripe over him so much. In my opinion, OT Mike was more annoying. I know many don't agree cause of his voice actor and nostalgia, but when I watch the OT I sometimes cringe at the 80s slang that poured from him. That's not really my cup of tea concerning Mikey. That OT aspect of Mike was toned down a tremendous amount in the 2k3, which worked great to me.

What Jester mentioned about Laird is perhaps somewhat accurate because Laird wanted to keep the Turtles "pure" while pleasing the masses who took the series simply as a light hearted cartoon. He had to include goofiness, and he certainly wouldn't let any of that fall onto Don and Leo, as seen by his notes. So Mikey bore the brunt of it. But for me, it didn't really make him annoying, and I thought a lot of his goofiness was tasteful and hilarious.

I don't agree that Mikey wanting to be a superhero was a bad thing at all, rather a key element of Mikey's personality and his want to be something more than just a turtle-in-a-sewer. When I asked PL what he wished he would have done more of with Mikey in the 2k3 his answer was:



So PL clearly wanted to show other sides of Mikey. Like I said, I really just think it was cause he so strongly felt that Don and Leo had to be serious minded and even went as extreme as telling Lloyd not to have Don and Leo say "yeah" but the proper "yes" - so the goofiness had to fall on Mike by default.

Anyways, no, 2k3 Mike isn't the worst interpretation of the character. I think IDW is (besides the constant video game stereotype we see literally almost every issue) doing an excellent job handling Mike's character, taking what will obviously never leave him from the OT and combining it with a balanced marriage between Mirage/2k3. So far he actually reminds me of movie 1 Mike - my favorite version of the character, which blended the OT with Mirage. Add a little 2k3 in there and you have IDW's Mike so far. I'm happy with that.

[tmntpower1988]

I like 2K3 Mikey better than the '87 Mikey.

Originally Posted by Donnie

As expected I voted It's a bum rap. 4Kids Mikey is just fine..

4Kids Mikey is one of my favorite Mikey's around. I'm not going to say that he doesn't get annoying at times, but to echo Samhain he's no more annoying than Raph, Leo, and especially Casey.

In fact, I don't think he was that annoying at all. Slightly over the top at times like I've said, but I really just don't understand why people gripe over him so much. In my opinion, OT Mike was more annoying. I know many don't agree cause of his voice actor and nostalgia, but when I watch the OT I sometimes cringe at the 80s slang that poured from him. That's not really my cup of tea concerning Mikey. That OT aspect of Mike was toned down a tremendous amount in the 2k3, which worked great to me.

I agree with all this.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by sdp

They made him way too annoying but then again they also made Raph too grouchy and Casey Jones too stupid. I wish they had struck a better balance in their personalities.

I actually liked that take on Casey being a complete idiot. They made up for it by making him capable of taking on the Shredder Elite, so there's that.

[Hermano Dyvas]

Originally Posted by Genesis

I actually liked that take on Casey being a complete idiot. They made up for it by making him capable of taking on the Shredder Elite, so there's that.

I think he got lucky because the elite probably underestimated him, just like mirage Shredder did at that time. Still an awesome scene though.

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by Hermano Dyvas

I think he got lucky because the elite probably underestimated him, just like mirage Shredder did at that time.

That's probably true. Truth be told, I don't like that part, either. They should have at least waited until the Turtles weren't getting their asses kicked, but then, Casey's greatest strength is his wild unpredictability.

Back to Casey being a simpleton, though, I think it might have helped to take some of the pressure on Michelangelo to be the only silly goofball hanging around.