Shredder, human or something else?

[neatoman]

I can't help but notice that there is a trend towards making Shredder something other than a normal human, be it alien, robot, demon, zombie, mutant or whatever. And I don't mean in that FW way where is a human being by default and maybe he'll transform but it will be reversed by the end of the episode, I mean that there is either a twist that he was never human or a permanent transformation. What do you think of this trend? Why do you believe it is so common?

[Cowabung-Gal]

Shredder has always been a monster, figuratively anyway.

[Andrew NDB]

I think to a lot of people, him being human isn't "enough." I mean, it sort of makes sense. If Saki is a good enough fighter to take on all 4 Turtles and win, how can there ever be a good one-on-one fight with him and one of the Turtles? Yet, if all 4 Turtles can win against him, is he a strong enough "Arch" bad guy to begin with? (is probably the mental gymnastics)

[Zog The Magnificent]

I think it's all in the execution. 2003 Shredder was an Utrom, but they built up to it really well, and he still functioned as regular Shredder. He was still strong, but eventually the turtles caught up to him, and were able to beat him in a stright fight, which of course is when he whips out his power armor. When the Demon Shredder showed up later, I still think it worked overall because it was the last thing that happened. They had already beaten "regular" Shredder, so Demon Shredder was suitably climactic and a nice escalation from where we started.

Likewise, the 2012 Shredder stayed the same all the way until the end, when he mutated. I think having Shredder "power up" for the final fight is also okay, as long as the overall drama is built properly.

Of course, it's possible to do this poorly, but so is everything. Heck, even Original Shredder got turned into a Sharktopus Clone thing (which I know wasn't technically the Shredder, but it's functionally close).

[CyberCubed]

He should mostly stay human. IDW's Shredder is kind of a mix of both worlds, he's still basically a real normal human, but he's been reincarnated (twice now!), and I think still has dragon blood in him or something? I forget.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He should mostly stay human. IDW's Shredder is kind of a mix of both worlds, he's still basically a real normal human, but he's been reincarnated (twice now!), and I think still has dragon blood in him or something? I forget.

I think as long as you save the transformation for the climax, followed by retiring the character at least for a good long while, you'll be good.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Why do you believe it is so common?

Because the 4 Kids cartoon was popular among fans. If Next Mutation, the Platinum Dunes movies or Rise of the TMNT did the same thing, people would've laughed at the concept.

[TheLabRat]

Maybe "Shredder" is the title to the leader of american branch of the Foot. So everyone can be the Shredder, as long as they prove they are capable, and other jonin, the headquarter council or other foot elders admit it.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Because the 4 Kids cartoon was popular among fans. If Next Mutation, the Platinum Dunes movies or Rise of the TMNT did the same thing, people would've laughed at the concept.

But you still have "non-human Shredder" concepts pre-dating the 4kids show, like Super Shredder in the second movie and the worm clones in Mirage. And Rise did in fact do this as well.

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

Maybe "Shredder" is the title to the leader of american branch of the Foot. So everyone can be the Shredder, as long as they prove they are capable, and other jonin, the headquarter council or other foot elders admit it.

I'm not sure you're being on topic here. "Anyone can be Shredder" doesn't sound like "Shredder is not human".

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

I think as long as you save the transformation for the climax, followed by retiring the character at least for a good long while, you'll be good.

Super Shredder is not an origin for Shredder, but rather something he was for a short time before his death.

[TheLabRat]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

Shredder has always been a monster, figuratively anyway.

Mirage comic has a better reason. He was not born evil. Just a boy who seeking revenge because Yoshi killed his brother.

[Wednesday's Serial]

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

Maybe "Shredder" is the title to the leader of american branch of the Foot. So everyone can be the Shredder, as long as they prove they are capable, and other jonin, the headquarter council or other foot elders admit it.

Not me! I ate too many Turtle pies!

but more generally,
I think Shredder is best as a kind of 'peak human' a la Lex Luthor or the Punisher but set in a world of martial arts and mysticism.

[TheUltimateBum]

Honestly, I always preferred the human Shredder.

The Ultrom Shredder for me is pretty much akin to the concept in 89 Batman where the Joker kills the parents: it works for the project it was in, but I don't think I would like it to become a regular thing.