Is 4Kid's Michelangelo the worst iteration of the character?

[Jester]

It was brought up in another thread, and as to not get that one too far off track I thought I'd start a thread about it. And to save me the trouble of re-typing what I feel here's that one off post:

Originally Posted by Me

Many of us who don't like 4Kids Mikey tend to not like what he became. I think Turtle Titan is a true test of how much poor Mikey got the shaft in the series. in Unconvincing Turtle Titan Mikey realizes he can do as much good from the shadows as Silver Sentry does in the light. It was a character arc in less than a half hour. Mikey felt the Turtles should be superheroes (which his brothers scoff at. Makes me wonder if this was a barb at the Fred Wolf series...but whatever), he goes out and teams with Sentry and has to save him using his ninja training and in the end he learns his lesson...which is totally undone by the subsequent Titan episodes. And they get worse as they go on.

Mikey started out fine in the 4kids universe, but it seems they always wrote him as a goof, and never let him be serious and that all the time goofiness made him irritating, in my opinion. And reading back over some of the Laird production notes, he has a lot to do with that, sadly.

So, do think 4Kids version of Mikey was the weakest, or does he just get a bad rap?

[sdp]

They made him way too annoying but then again they also made Raph too grouchy and Casey jones too stupid. I wish they had struck a better balance in their personalities, however. I still feel that, Mikey brought a certain charm with his annoying ways, I just wish they had been toned down a bit.

[CyberCubed]

The odd thing is 4kids Mike started off GREAT. I loved his character for Seasons 1-2 and most of Season 3. For most of Season 4 he was OK too.

Two terrible things ruined his character:

- The Turtle Titan costume

- Winning the Battle Nexus tournament

Followed by:

- Being dumbed down considerably during Fast Forward and BTTS

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

- Being dumbed down considerably during Fast Forward and BTTS

This I do agree with but other than that I love the character

[Powder]

Originally Posted by sdp

They made him way too annoying but then again they also made Raph too grouchy and Casey jones too stupid. I wish they had struck a better balance in their personalities.

Definitely this. But yeah, for me he's my least favorite version of Mike. Coming close would be the Next Mutation...

[Samhain]

I don't really have an issue with Mikey in this series. All the turtles in 2k3 are a bit one-dimensional, if you ask me. Sure, he's annoying sometimes but I personally get annoyed more with Raph always being grouchy and Leo acting like a know it all. Leo is definitely more annoying in 2k3 than Mikey is, IMO. And I'm a big Leo fan.

[CyberCubed]

I guess the problem with the 4kids Turtles is none of them could really change all that much without reverting back to their usual personas.

Granted it was the same in the original series as well, but the Turtles all remained likeable and funny so people didn't care.

[Leonardo Mystic]

Mikey has never been my favorite of any version, but he was semi-okay here. Most of the time my reaction towards his antics would be just to roll my eyes. Every once in a while he'd be actually funny and I'd laugh. That is until he won the tournament.

Then it's like his freakin' head blew up. He was arrogant and cocky "I don't have to do anything. I'm the best in the world because I'm BATTLE NEXUS CHAMPION1111!!!!". He constantly pissed me off with his show-boat elitist attitude. 4Kids got carried away with it. It got even worse when he became dumb as ass in FF and BTTS.

[Donnie]

As expected I voted It's a bum rap. 4Kids Mikey is just fine..

4Kids Mikey is one of my favorite Mikey's around. I'm not going to say that he doesn't get annoying at times, but to echo Samhain he's no more annoying than Raph, Leo, and especially Casey.

In fact, I don't think he was that annoying at all. Slightly over the top at times like I've said, but I really just don't understand why people gripe over him so much. In my opinion, OT Mike was more annoying. I know many don't agree cause of his voice actor and nostalgia, but when I watch the OT I sometimes cringe at the 80s slang that poured from him. That's not really my cup of tea concerning Mikey. That OT aspect of Mike was toned down a tremendous amount in the 2k3, which worked great to me.

What Jester mentioned about Laird is perhaps somewhat accurate because Laird wanted to keep the Turtles "pure" while pleasing the masses who took the series simply as a light hearted cartoon. He had to include goofiness, and he certainly wouldn't let any of that fall onto Don and Leo, as seen by his notes. So Mikey bore the brunt of it. But for me, it didn't really make him annoying, and I thought a lot of his goofiness was tasteful and hilarious.

I don't agree that Mikey wanting to be a superhero was a bad thing at all, rather a key element of Mikey's personality and his want to be something more than just a turtle-in-a-sewer. When I asked PL what he wished he would have done more of with Mikey in the 2k3 his answer was:

As far as places I would like to have taken him in the 4Kids show, I think I would have liked to play with the whole "desire to be a Super Hero" thing that Mike was into, and also put him through some darker episodes. I think that one of the things which made "Same As It Never Was" so strong was seeing Mike stripped of his lighthearted side for a bit. Not that I would want to turn him into a grim 'n' gritty character -- just would have been interesting to see how he dealt with those situations. -- PL

So PL clearly wanted to show other sides of Mikey. Like I said, I really just think it was cause he so strongly felt that Don and Leo had to be serious minded and even went as extreme as telling Lloyd not to have Don and Leo say "yeah" but the proper "yes" - so the goofiness had to fall on Mike by default.

Anyways, no, 2k3 Mike isn't the worst interpretation of the character. I think IDW is (besides the constant video game stereotype we see literally almost every issue) doing an excellent job handling Mike's character, taking what will obviously never leave him from the OT and combining it with a balanced marriage between Mirage/2k3. So far he actually reminds me of movie 1 Mike - my favorite version of the character, which blended the OT with Mirage. Add a little 2k3 in there and you have IDW's Mike so far. I'm happy with that.

[Jester]

Now the "Mikey in dark stories" idea I could handle. Part of me wonders what Mikey would have done in the SaiNW universe had he have gone there instead of Donnie, but that's neither here nor there. I think the 2 things that did Mikey in for me were the Turtle Titan (at least in his appearances in >> and BttS. Clash of the Turtle Titans and Super Power Struggle make my brain hurt. And like I said i think the 'desire to be a superhero" was explored very well...in TT's first episode!) and the over blown "BATTLE NEXUS CHAMPION!1!1! stuff (although it did make for a good call back in Grudge Match).

Maybe you're right that the nostalgia blinders are on, but FW Mikey never bugged me, but then again he wasn't the one cracking wise. That was Raph. FW Mikey was just laid back and mellow. Not sure what makes Raph's jokes work and 4Kids Mikey's flop...maybe the show's tone. I dunna. In any case, the humor that was attempted with Mikey never worked for me like Raph's did in the FW series.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Jester

Maybe you're right that the nostalgia blinders are on, but FW Mikey never bugged me, but then again he wasn't the one cracking wise. That was Raph. FW Mikey was just laid back and mellow. Not sure what makes Raph's jokes work and 4Kids Mikey's flop...maybe the show's tone. I dunna. In any case, the humor that was attempted with Mikey never worked for me like Raph's did in the FW series.

FW Mikey had a goof-off habit, but he never said or did anything offensive when somebody else was in trouble. He was always looking out for somebody else or trying to set a good example for kids (admittedly). 4Kids Mikey on the other hand... self-obsessed narcissist. It was all down hill for him after the Battle Nexus.

[The Terror of Death]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

FW Mikey had a goof-off habit, but he never said or did anything offensive when somebody else was in trouble. He was always looking out for somebody else or trying to set a good example for kids (admittedly). 4Kids Mikey on the other hand... self-obsessed narcissist. It was all down hill for him after the Battle Nexus.

I somewhat disagree. He was a narcissist sure, but with the exceptions of Clash of the Turtle Titans and Super Power Struggle I don't think his narcissism ever got in the way of stopping villains and saving lives. There could be a moment or two I'm missing but those are the only episodes where I recall his behavior was a major risk to the people around him. His biggest flaw was that he didn't like to train as much as the others and played a lot of videogames. I also don't recall any of his comments or jokes being all that callous and intentionally cold. The worst of his trash talk was probably stuff like "stinky" or "fat" and "I'm better than you" but I don't think he ever really crossed the line into complete douchebaggery.

I think a lot of the criticism for the arrogant comedic type characters who almost never learn their lesson in cartoons is sometimes too harsh. When the character happens to be a grown man, it's a bit more understandable, but when it's a kid or teenager I think it's pretty unrealistic. Immaturity comes with the territory of not being an adult. Mikey displayed a lot of traits of the average youth; whiny, brash, conceited, jokey, and thickheaded slackers. For several youngsters having fun and thinking about your own needs is more of a concern than studying and trying to be more responsible. Well rounded fifteen-year-olds are somewhat of a rarity.

I think what it boils down to is Mikey's goofiness and the writers constantly hitting the reset button on his character development being a necessary evil. If he was shown to be more serious, contemplative, well-mannered, and dedicated he would have probably started to resemble Leo and Don too much as the series progressed. Same goes for Raph and his constant grouchiness. Each turtle has to have distinct personality traits. Too much permanent character development would just lead to more interchangeability among the four.

Another thing people have to keep in mind is that Mikey is probably the most relatable character in the series for the target audience. Some adult viewers find his immature behavior annoying but most kids probably love watching it because they too love junk food, playing videogames, slacking off, being an ass to others etc. It's safe to say that's the reason why stuff like Spongebob and tween coms often get more viewership than more serious fare like action oriented kids programming nowadays.

He's my favorite turtle so this could be personal bias talking but, I almost never had a problem with 4kids Mikey. He adequately fulfilled the role of the lighthearted comic relief character, imo. If they toned down half of Mikey's goofiness most episodes of this series would have probably ended up being 90% serious. While a more serious tone is great for older fans, it' not necessarily great for younger ones (thus the decision to make FF and BttS).

[Hermano Dyvas]

Like others have said he started out great, but as the series went on and especially when FF started he only got worse. At least in FF he has the excuse of being very excited about all the new sorts of entertainment the future offers.

[ToTheNines]

The short answer: yes, he is the the worst iteration of the character.

However, he's got some wicked competition. Movie, FredWolf, Archie, Mirage/Image and IDW Mikey are all great characters.

But still, while TMNT (2007) Mikey was dumbed down and one dimensional... he wasn't half as immature, selfish, whiny, or cowardly as 4kids Mike was capable of being.

He did have a lot of good moments, but they seemed to stick a lot of those tropes I listed above to his character just because he's the primary comic-relief.

Originally Posted by Samhain

Leo is definitely more annoying in 2k3 than Mikey is, IMO. And I'm a big Leo fan.

Lol, thank you. His lamest moment was in "Shredder Strikes" when he kicks the sh*t out of his brothers and Splinter compliments him on being a skilled warrior, and Leo throws a tantrum because "Splinter doesn't know how important these swords are" to him.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Unfortunately yes. :/

My brother is a huge Mikey fan... and he's not impressed with the 2k3 one. As for myself, tried to give him a chance, cringe at how forced the show tries to make him "the funny guy" by being the brother everyone slaps when he said something dumb. Sheesh, even SPLINTER does this.

Just.... *facepalm*

I dunno how OT Mikey pulled it off, really. He's immature, loves his comic books, has that stoned surfer slang and gross his brothers out with his pizzas, but he never, re-watching the series again as an older person, made me annoyed at him.

And comparing 2K3 Mikey with the "immature kid heroes" such as Beast Boy, Ben Tennyson and heck, Aang... he's still at the bottom pile.:/

Not sure what makes Raph's jokes work and 4Kids Mikey's flop

Rob Paulsen? It's his delivery of the line that works so well with the joke.

[BubblyShell22]

I think Mikey was fine in 2K3 until he became the Battle Nexus Champion. After that, he became more arrogant. As for the superhero thing, it was fine at first because I could sympathize with what Mikey's aims were for being a superhero. He just wanted to do good out of the shadows because he generally has a good heart. But after he became BNC, things took a turn for the worst. He became arrogant and selfish instead of being humble. He constantly rubbed it in his brothers' faces, and he was even selfish in the other superhero episodes as well as though he was better than everyone. And every time they had him learn a lesson, they'd make him revert back to his selfish self again as though that particular lesson never happened.

Don't get me wrong, Mikey had a lot of potential. There was just a lot of inconsistency with his character which made me not a fan of him in later seasons.

And as for Leo's tantrum, I think Leo can be a bit arrogant at times, as shown in this episode. But at least he learned his lesson at the end and remained pretty consistent with it instead of constantly acting like he was better than everyone like Mikey did.

[Donnie]

Looks like we're alone, The Terror of Death! I'm biased as well cause he's my favorite, but I seriously have never had a problem with 2k3 Mikey, and like I've said a bunch of times he's one of my favorite versions of the character. It was the 2k3 Mikey that got me back (full swing) into the Turtles when they had a taken a back seat in my life.

I said most of how I feel in my initial post (which I don't think many people read because it's long) but I would like to say that I find it puzzling how any of you could list 2k3 Mikey below 2k7 TMNT Mike. The 2007 adaption of the character was by far the worst - he was like a less mature OT Mike with hardly any character development excluding what we already knew about Michelangelo: he wanted to be integrated in human society, his need for socialization. This spans probably all Michelangelo's throughout the medias, so at least we got that! 2k7 Mike didn't remind me at all of 2k3, except in the fact that he played video games, and he was a fan of the Nightwatcher cause he saw him as a superhero.

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

And as for Leo's tantrum, I think Leo can be a bit arrogant at times, as shown in this episode. But at least he learned his lesson at the end and remained pretty consistent with it instead of constantly acting like he was better than everyone like Mikey did.

Leo, in my opinion, was the most annoying in 2k3. He was always too butt-kiss and he threw a ton of fits. "City at War", anyone?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The "Christmas Aliens" is an episode that totally fit Michelangelo.

[MikeandRaph87]

I can evaluate it fairly without nostalgia except for the Image portrayal as I only read #3 and that was enough for me personally. Of all the other versions out there the 2003 cartoon iteration of Michelangelo made him dumber than he is and an annoyance to the others to the point even Splinter slapped him on the head. My favorite version will probably always be the 1987 cartoon version. With only 16 issues out at its start and Michelangelo the least developed it could be said this series gave more characterization and characteristics that would stick. This is where the pop culture buff so to speak began I admit with his surfer dude lingos and most of those terms meaning the exact same thing. It was not overdone in my opinion. Also, like with any version my favorite turtle can make me embarassed to support him like how he acts in say "The Gang's All Here" and "Nightmare In The Sewers" or being the bait in Beneath The Streets for the alien plant . The pizza obbession was overdone as well. That didn't hurt my appreciation but just enjoy that about him.
He is the laid back heart of the group that was the most like a human teenager. In the movies he was portrayed in a similar vain yet more prone to be serious when it calls for it like in the Mirage Comics. The 2003 cartoon made him make pop culture quips too much and too lazy and arrogant for a time. I don't see Michelangelo overall as a lazy character but laid back. I was glad he won the Battle Nexus tournament even by default of Splinter passing torch and the Ultimate Ninja's interference with Leo's poisioning removing him and Usagi. A season and a half later when they returned for Mike to win it outright he did so and I thought it would be a wake up call after the victory before had made him think he was all that yet it didn't. Graduation Day 2105 shows this.
I felt like Michleangelo was made dumber than he is and overly spouting pop culture while its in his nature its not neccessary every minute of the day. I can see why people will say it was the Battle Nexus "victory" that was a turning point because of the laziness and arrogance that isn't really who he is yet he was over done before in some aspects. The woman's clothing during the Turtles In Space arc and his love of space food left me shaking my head. Not ot mention his screaming like a girl at a lot of things and his ability to become scared very easily such as in Sons of The Silent Age or Notes From The Underground. I like Michelangelo as we see him in both the first three films and the 1987 cartoon. If he can have an episode like Same As It Never Was and shown as he was in those two versions with a touch of a serious attitude that would be the best portrayal. In retrospect I think it was a mistake to place Don in SAINW and it should have been Michleangelo instead. It could have helped his chracter development in that series if allowed to carry over.

[Sage Ninja]

My problem with 2k3 Mikey is that he was forced to be the counter-balance to all the serious and "dark" elements the show was trying to attempt, which succeeded in making him, for the most part, a filler character because he was always the one who had to "lighten" the mood. All it did was make his character inconsistent because it always had to be him doing the dumb and stupid stuff. Plus, his antics were generally unappreciated by the those around him so it came across twice as over-bearing because the other characters had to stay this "serious" mold they were given. What I hated the most was how Mikey would act like serious things didn't effect him at all. Case in point the second episode of BTTS when for all anyone knew Splinter, their father, was dead. And while everyone else was mourning he was having a party and being an ass to Serling. It could be argued that this is his way of lightening the mood or how he copes but that B.S, Mikey often came across like all he cared about was his own sense of enjoyment and pleasure.This was the treatment he recieved from the get-go, it didn't happen gradually like some people on here seem to think. True, it got worse after FF and BTTS, and his cockiness (his worse trait) got worse after his battle Nexus win.

The battle nexus thing could have been a good arc for him because for once he wasn't standing in his brother's shadow; and I thought that was what the writers were building on, with him throwing his win in their faces, but it doesn't develop in that way. It just showed him getting a inflated ego and nothing deeper than that. If the writers were going for that, they dropped the ball. Same thing with his turtle titan persona, I saw it as a way to assert himself as an individual seprete from him brothers and could have been a good character study of his character, but they choose to make it another means to show boat and be immature and bratty.

His cockiness killed him, sometimes you just didn't want to root for him. Thats pretty sad if the general audiance does not want to root for one of the main characters. In Grudge Match his attitude was so bad I think some of the viewers wouldn't have minded if Mikey got pounded and humilated. The writers copped out of this by making Klaw (or what his name was) the blatant bad guy so you'd have to root for him because the his opponent was up to know good. They took the easy way out because they knew they'd made Mikey behave in away the viewers wouldn't readily root for.

Bottom line, 2k3 Mikey was handled poorly. He had alot of hinted depth like his inferority complex to his brothers and his need for recognition, which was probably why he acted the he did at times, but because he had to be "comic relief" and the tension breaker, the writers opted for the cheap laugh than development his character. Shame.

Say what you want about the classic series Michelangelo, but at least his character wasn't a crutch for force light heartedness. He was funny when the it time to be funny and he evolved and became serious when the series became serious in redsky with the rest of the turtles. With the exception of that one HAVOC episode. Which was an ass-handling of his character.