Super 7 Turtle figures shown at Power Con

[Dask]

Originally Posted by Lordmylar06

There's yet another way, in that many of the concept art pieces for characters used in the figure line were published in various artist sketchbooks by Tundra and Mirage.
I have a Michael Dooney sketchbook that contains art of Chrome Dome, Scale Tail, Turtle variants, and also had unused vintage figure concepts.
There are also things NECA isn't currently creating in the realms of the comics that I would think are fair game. For example: Neca has Eastman and Laird with Lawson inks turtle sculpts, but I think it would be great to see Dooney sculpts(the extra heads from the turtles already look like Dooney's style to me) and AC Farley sculpts.
Maybe they can even create Archie styled characters but in the art style of the sourcebook instead of the interior art from the comic books.

These are all excellent suggestions, and I don't know why Super7 is going for obscurity (e.g. GG) or trying to reinvent the wheel.

Also, Dooney, Farley and Archie styled-figures will already look visually distinguished from the NECA due to the heftier plastic used by Super7 and the lack of line work.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by teemu

I have the game. It's looks like cartoon Rat King to me, just like the rest of the games characters. The Reality is, Playmates has stepped in and now Super7's hands are tide. This line is no longer what it was advertised from the beginning and what has been for the last 9 waves.

I mean if you're technical about it, Shredder's Revenge is based on the toon.

However, his zany hair style appears for a second in the game, in Rat King's outro, but then it gets obliterated...

If you blinked, you will miss it.

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Dask

I mean if you're technical about it, Shredder's Revenge is based on the toon.

However, his zany hair style appears for a second in the game, in Rat King's outro, but then it gets obliterated...

If you blinked, you will miss it.

You can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig. A second of game time of his hair in the wind means this should be a our Rat king? Come on man, you sound like the designer making excuses for it

[Dask]

Originally Posted by teemu

You can put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig. A second of game time of his hair in the wind means this should be a our Rat king? Come on man, you sound like the designer making excuses for it

I know you're upset, but Super7 isn't entirely to blame. It seems that they have limited access to the designs now. It was always their intention to stay true to the vintage, and eventually branch out when the time is right.

Their main strategic error was to spread out the heavy-hitters (instead of front-loading them like they did with the Silver Hawks line).

[Macaquerie]

Originally Posted by Dask

You guys might want to hold on to your S7 Rat Kings.

It looks like Ramen Toys (they are known for exceptional products) is making a vintage Playmates-style head sculpt for your Rat King figure:

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=...56465649829488


Well, that was fast!

If anyone here collects 3P Transformers, this is basically exactly what happened when FansToys put out their MP Grimlock clone, where they had to include a different head sculpt to avoid it looking too similar to the Hasbro/Takara version, but then sold the vintage style head as an add-on, thereby avoiding any of their SKUs being a direct one-to-one copy of a licensed product.

[WrectchedReptile]

Originally Posted by Dask

If the Playmates thing is legit, there is a technical loophole that can be exploited, but I don't think Super7 is keen enough to figure it out.


They can separately sell accessory packs with the much needed head-sculpts (e.g. storage-shell TMNT head sculpts, Wacky Action TMNT head sculpts, Toon April, Vintage Rat King etc.). This would allow them to bypass Playmates and is a strategy used by the not-Leo and non-Don by 5kToys.

This doesn't really work.

The issue isn't copyright. Nickelodeon owns most of the designs.

The issue is that Nickelodeon has to sign off on every figure and assured Playmates that they wouldn't sign off on retro figure homages. A workaround doesn't really work if Nickelodeon is trying to stop them from doing vintage figures at Playmates' request.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

Ya, I'm not sure why so many people are upset at Super7 about this. I mean, what on Earth are they even supposed to do in this situation? If they just go "well, screw it, we'll make the vintage designs anyway", then Viacom's just gonna pull the license away from them for going against their direct "request" (which... obviously isn't a request, but an order).

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by Dask

I mean if you're technical about it, Shredder's Revenge is based on the toon.

However, his zany hair style appears for a second in the game, in Rat King's outro, but then it gets obliterated...

If you blinked, you will miss it.

I did see on GDL where Kyle claimed that the head sculpt was based off of Shredder's Revenge... but the consensus was that he was just trying to cover for the generally poor reaction to this figure. If he WAS basing it off the game... boy did he mess up badly. The colors are wrong, the heads don't look anything alike, and the hair is completely inaccurate.

On the flipside, he said the costume was based off the vintage figure, and I'm inclined to believe that (obviously a lot of the detailing has been lost, but the stitching and all that for the costume itself is pretty accurate).

And then he had a line about how no one buys the vintage figure designs and figures based off of TV and games sell better. I have no way of knowing if this is true or not... but that would be incredibly surprising. If that were actually the case, you'd think they'd have course-corrected sooner than ten waves in.

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo Moroboshi

Ya, I'm not sure why so many people are upset at Super7 about this. I mean, what on Earth are they even supposed to do in this situation? If they just go "well, screw it, we'll make the vintage designs anyway", then Viacom's just gonna pull the license away from them for going against their direct "request" (which... obviously isn't a request, but an order).

I think it's a combination of their lack of transparency and the fact that they made so many poor character choices early on for me. I understand they can only say so much... but like... don't blatantly lie to the consumer.

As above, Kyle has one story that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but elsewhere I've read Brian Flynn say that they can't do anything that was ONLY on the Playmates figures (i.e. the bones on Rat King). This doesn't make any sense in a wave where Leo is basically a 1:1 replica of a variant that has only ever existed in the Playmates line, and even if this were true, they could have easily sculpted a Mirage-styled Rat King, which would have been much closer.

Don't get me wrong - if this is Playmates doing this, I'm not saying their meddling is okay by any stretch of the imagination... but Super7 had been mishandling this line several waves prior to this issue coming up. If your whole selling point is to prey on nostalgia... this comes across as a pretty ugly bait-and-switch, forced or not.

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

I did see on GDL where Kyle claimed that the head sculpt was based off of Shredder's Revenge... but the consensus was that he was just trying to cover for the generally poor reaction to this figure. If he WAS basing it off the game... boy did he mess up badly. The colors are wrong, the heads don't look anything alike, and the hair is completely inaccurate.

On the flipside, he said the costume was based off the vintage figure, and I'm inclined to believe that (obviously a lot of the detailing has been lost, but the stitching and all that for the costume itself is pretty accurate).

And then he had a line about how no one buys the vintage figure designs and figures based off of TV and games sell better. I have no way of knowing if this is true or not... but that would be incredibly surprising. If that were actually the case, you'd think they'd have course-corrected sooner than ten waves in.

How could he even say that Tmnt toys based off of the vintage like don’t sell as well as the cartoon or video game designs? Super7 has sold neither. The only way he might know something like that is if they knew Neca’s numbers, but comparing neca to super7 is like comparing apples to oranges. Neca can actually sell their product in stores. Neca’s figures cost half the price. The cost is what I usually see when people say they can’t get into the super7 line. They’ve been making toys based off of the vintage toy line for the past 5 years. That doesn’t make any sense. Also that Ray King doesn’t make me think of Shredders Revenge when you look at him. No one thought that until he came out and said that was the reference, but even then his head and body look very different and he’s got long pointy nails.

I’ve been reading posts for the past few days and I haven’t once seen someone say “oh good, now maybe they’ll make more video game and cartoon figures!” It’s been nothing but disappointment.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Exactly on so many points above.

The fact that Kyle leaned into the "oh no, we took inspiration from X and Y because consumers respond to it better" when there's been no inkling of any precedent of this before just feels like backpedaling. Even if there was an inspiration, it doesn't change the fact that it's not the vintage figure which has been their mission statement since day one.

And especially on a character that's so beloved, requested, and essential in so many peoples' eyes when it comes to those original Playmates figures.

Whether or not there's some legality to them not being able to go into detail as to why he's different, you can just feel the lack of transparency in their promo video alone. Kyle glosses right over Rat King at the end without addressing the elephant in the room about his design but ensures to explain why April is a brand new design and Casey is basically the same figure with a new paint job.

It's just weird.

And again, they are three waves behind at this point. And expect you to preorder from them without explaining why they're changing direction? It's just odd. Couple that with the Andre/Green Ranger face sculpts looking the way they did, what feels almost like a bait and switch with the Moe figure apron fiasco, QC issues, and now all of this?

Just a lot to unpack and not really trust about Super7 right now.

[jestergoblin]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

As above, Kyle has one story that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but elsewhere I've read Brian Flynn say that they can't do anything that was ONLY on the Playmates figures (i.e. the bones on Rat King). This doesn't make any sense in a wave where Leo is basically a 1:1 replica of a variant that has only ever existed in the Playmates line, and even if this were true, they could have easily sculpted a Mirage-styled Rat King, which would have been much closer.

The Rockin Rollin' Turtles got used on a bunch of merch in the 90s (along with the original sports turtles and disguised turtles).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3419884747

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

I did see on GDL where Kyle claimed that the head sculpt was based off of Shredder's Revenge... but the consensus was that he was just trying to cover for the generally poor reaction to this figure. If he WAS basing it off the game... boy did he mess up badly. The colors are wrong, the heads don't look anything alike, and the hair is completely inaccurate.

On the flipside, he said the costume was based off the vintage figure, and I'm inclined to believe that (obviously a lot of the detailing has been lost, but the stitching and all that for the costume itself is pretty accurate).

And then he had a line about how no one buys the vintage figure designs and figures based off of TV and games sell better. I have no way of knowing if this is true or not... but that would be incredibly surprising. If that were actually the case, you'd think they'd have course-corrected sooner than ten waves in.

It's funny because Shredder's Revenge is really based off the 87 cartoon designs, which NECA has already done in figure form with their toon line. You want shredder's revenge figures? BUY NECA.

To say they based their Rat King off of the game is just a deflect. If they would just come out and just be honest of why they can't make the Toy Rat King, since this line has been based off the toy line from the start (and 9 waves in).

[teemu]

Originally Posted by staypuftweepel

I’ve been reading posts for the past few days and I haven’t once seen someone say “oh good, now maybe they’ll make more video game and cartoon figures!” It’s been nothing but disappointment.

Except NECA has already done it with their toon line. Shredder's revenge is based off the 87 cartoon. Super7 is just deflecting because they know most everyone hates what they did to rat king

[teemu]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Exactly on so many points above.

The fact that Kyle leaned into the "oh no, we took inspiration from X and Y because consumers respond to it better" when there's been no inkling of any precedent of this before just feels like backpedaling. Even if there was an inspiration, it doesn't change the fact that it's not the vintage figure which has been their mission statement since day one.

And especially on a character that's so beloved, requested, and essential in so many peoples' eyes when it comes to those original Playmates figures.

Whether or not there's some legality to them not being able to go into detail as to why he's different, you can just feel the lack of transparency in their promo video alone. Kyle glosses right over Rat King at the end without addressing the elephant in the room about his design but ensures to explain why April is a brand new design and Casey is basically the same figure with a new paint job.

It's just weird.

And again, they are three waves behind at this point. And expect you to preorder from them without explaining why they're changing direction? It's just odd. Couple that with the Andre/Green Ranger face sculpts looking the way they did, what feels almost like a bait and switch with the Moe figure apron fiasco, QC issues, and now all of this?

Just a lot to unpack and not really trust about Super7 right now.

It's okay. The toy shills will interview Brian Flynn and he will deflect and lie as he always does. He will then promise you shipping times and deliveries, while things get delayed even months further. Direct (pre-paid) orders from Super7 will ship later, while BBTS and EE will have already shipped product and those who waited to pay, get their stuff a month or two in hand first. Personally, while I like super7's product, they have become a joke.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by staypuftweepel

How could he even say that Tmnt toys based off of the vintage like don’t sell as well as the cartoon or video game designs? Super7 has sold neither. The only way he might know something like that is if they knew Neca’s numbers, but comparing neca to super7 is like comparing apples to oranges.

For what it's worth, NECA temporarily "discontinued" its gaming line with no immediate plans to add to it.

I would imagine that they are going off the popularity of the BST AXN TMNT video game figures as they tend to be selling remarkably well.

Nevertheless, S7 should come clean and say that they are now only focused on video game and comic book inspired figures. Or, it is done on a case-by-case basis, like perhaps, Playmates is protective about Monty Moose but don't care about Merdude.

[italianice388]

Originally Posted by Tuxedo Moroboshi

Ya, I'm not sure why so many people are upset at Super7 about this.

consider the following:

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

I did see on GDL where Kyle...had a line about how no one buys the vintage figure designs and figures based off of TV and games sell better.

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by staypuftweepel

How could he even say that Tmnt toys based off of the vintage like don’t sell as well as the cartoon or video game designs? Super7 has sold neither. The only way he might know something like that is if they knew Neca’s numbers, but comparing neca to super7 is like comparing apples to oranges. Neca can actually sell their product in stores. Neca’s figures cost half the price. The cost is what I usually see when people say they can’t get into the super7 line. They’ve been making toys based off of the vintage toy line for the past 5 years. That doesn’t make any sense. Also that Ray King doesn’t make me think of Shredders Revenge when you look at him. No one thought that until he came out and said that was the reference, but even then his head and body look very different and he’s got long pointy nails.

I’ve been reading posts for the past few days and I haven’t once seen someone say “oh good, now maybe they’ll make more video game and cartoon figures!” It’s been nothing but disappointment.

To be fair to Kyle on the point of sales data - he may be referring to sales figures from Super7's other Ultimates lines. Something like how they had the toy-deco Lion-O in the Thundercats line, maybe? But I would think the distinction there would be that the Thundercats line is supposed to be based on the cartoon, where TMNT was (to my eyes, at least) sold as bigger, better versions of the toys we loved back in the 80's and 90's.

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by jestergoblin

The Rockin Rollin' Turtles got used on a bunch of merch in the 90s (along with the original sports turtles and disguised turtles).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/terrible2z/3419884747

Didn't realize this. Thanks for the link!

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

To be fair to Kyle on the point of sales data - he may be referring to sales figures from Super7's other Ultimates lines. Something like how they had the toy-deco Lion-O in the Thundercats line, maybe? But I would think the distinction there would be that the Thundercats line is supposed to be based on the cartoon, where TMNT was (to my eyes, at least) sold as bigger, better versions of the toys we loved back in the 80's and 90's.

I think you’re probably right and that’s what he’s comparing Turtles to, but even that isn’t a fair comparison. I would argue that the turtles toy line and cartoon were as equally popular when they came out. The Thundercats cartoon was way more popular than the toys. The toys died off quickly, but the cartoon was shown on toonami and other stuff for years. I’ve been mostly all in on the Thundercats ultimates but even I didn’t buy the ljn wave. Those original toys were a downgrade from the animation designs.